The US does have a lower burglary rate than the UK.
They only have less of an impact to people like you, who are inclined to excuse sexual abuse whenever they see it.
I don’t know that it is illegal either, but Max Hardcore went to jail for breaking ‘obscenity’ laws for filming himself with women acting underage.
The guy got 46 months!!
The girls themselves never went to jail, so I imagine your employers were just watching their own asses.
Anyway, this is just one of the extreme cases where our policies to protect children go too far.
Are you serious? I’d like a detailed link if you could please. There must have been a bit more to it than that… right?
If that happened in some middle eastern country it’d be held up as outrageous and an example of an authorititarian state gone mad. But as I say, terrible as the US is and all, I’m guessing there’s more to it than what you stated.
edit: lol… you’re right. America truly is more bonkers than almost any of the nations it tries to hustle. Could they not have taken his videos off the market and made a new law stating that you cannot do this explicitly? Such idiots.
Does it bother you at all to post absolutely false claims like this?
You are conflating two separate prosecutions. In 1998, “Max Hardcore,” real name Paul Little, was charged with violation of child pornography and obscenity for films in which the actress was over 18 but portrayed an underage recipient of sexual acts. However, in light of the Supreme Court’s decision in Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition, 535 US 234, those charges were dropped before trial.
In 2009, Mr. Little began serving a 46 month sentence in federal prison, true… for a completely different charge of obscenity, based on his 2007 indictment for films sexualizing fisting, urination, and vomit.
You of course can argue that those charges are also too harsh… but they have nothing to do with underage depictions.
I believe I’ve watched every TCAP video youtube has to offer. Not sure if it qualifies, but I remember several (5-7) segments where the decoy was on the phone telling the ‘Guy’ to just drive over; a few where she kept repeating to the ‘Guy’ outside ‘her’ house to just come inside. Again, not sure if the situation has evolved to a point where entrapment is null or not. One specific segment I vividly recall, the decoy talked more about sex than he did, he shows up to the house, the two exchange a few words beteen driveway and kitchen, he seems to back out, he gets 5 feet from his car only to get tackled. They show the post ‘interview’ with him and an officer, with apparent broken nose with blood saturated clothing. From my stand point, he should be charged with committing a crime with a computer. Welp, better lay this subject to rest, before Tom Cruise busts my door down!
As I understand it, the charge for simulated child pornography were dropped on appeal, but they did not reduce his sentence.
Are you telling me that if you were charged with murder and theft and got 20 years, it would be fair to keep you for 20 years if the murder charges were dropped???
It should be obvious to anyone why he got 46 months.
And I believe he still has to register as a sex offender for the obscenity charge.
Leo Laporte, who was a juror on a recent TCAP trial where the defendant was acquitted, spoke openly about the case after it was over. He spoke about it between recordings of his shows on the live stream, so I can’t find a transcript, but he said it was obvious that the decoy steered the conversation towards sex in this case.
I think it’s pretty sound evidence, when an entire jury can be convinced (though the judge threw out the case - Leo makes it clear it was unanimous in his discussion), that it was entrapment. The problem is of course the societal views on child sex and what we feel constitutes a predator. I don’t think a predator should be classified as anyone who will have sex with a willing adolescent teen. You’re only going to get acquitted if the most rational of minds are on your jury.
That would not be a reason to refrain from putting behind bars a sonabitch (with my apologies to members of the Canis genre) who’s taking advantage of Daddy’s abuse; it would be a reason to put behind bars both the sonabitch and Daddy.
I think ModernPrimate is providing a wonderful example of “people who can’t believe that most people aren’t tempted by those things they’re tempted by” (like those ‘we must fight the temptation to be gay’ preachers). But thankfully, most guys have no interest in fucking 13-year olds.
“Never say never”… I was an admin in a MUD for 8 years, and the one person who harassed a minor in that time was a woman, who knew perfectly well the boy in question was 17 at the time (she was 42 and she’d first tried to get him into her bed 3 years prior, he was a friend of her son’s).
Generally don’t, yes. Never, sadly, no.
I was ‘sexually harassed’ by a woman when I was ‘underage’ as well. Actually more than once. Typically the women are not that attractive, and I think they try to sell themselves as loose to a potentially sexually frustrated virgin (I wasn’t).
Fortunately, I have never been that desperate.
I was never outraged enough to get police involved and I would never expect anyone to be outraged on my behalf. I really just took it as a compliment and said that I wasn’t interested. Of course, most probably didn’t know I was underage. The only instance where the woman would have known was my old manager (when I worked at a big box retailer in high school). But we were at a birthday party and she was drunk…
… Maybe I should have blackmailed her for a raise.
Does my story upset any of you? I highly doubt it.
Yet, had I been a female and talked about the same indignation, I think we’d have a few people telling me how badly I was victimized.
The more I look at this subject reversing the gender roles, the more I feel like this is just a misogynistic double standard.
What you don’t get is that most people do not agree with you. Grown men who have sex with kids are predators, no matter what the kid said. It’s not a matter of rationality; it’s against the law, and most people agree with that law.
In this case you mention it seems there was entrapment, and that is wrong. But most of these cases don’t turn out that way. I hope the investigators don’t overstep the line anymore, because the guys they find should be locked up.
Did any of them go on after you said “no thanks”, and how old were you, that you could pass for of-age?
Most boys I’ve known would have had to be at least 16 to look like anything other than kids; compared with 13/14, it’s a huge difference (many girls look the same between 13/14 and 19/20 - my photo ID from my second year in college can be told apart from the one in my first year in HS because of the different haircut).
Having someone make a pass at you and step back when told “no thanks” doesn’t upset me, no matter what the genders involved and so long as the proposee doesn’t evidently look like a child. Having someone knowingly keep pushing someone, whether this someone is underage or not, does upset me no matter what the genders involved.
Other people’s mileage will, of course, vary.
Interesting how you play this off as though it were a question of “desperation”, and you go to great pains to point out that the women were unattractive.
It upsets ME. Guys get fucked up by that shit like girls do, but they’re less likely to seek help because the world tells them that it’s all good, because sexytimes.
I think you’re wrong. That said,
Ahem. Grown PEOPLE who have sex with kids are predators.
You are absolutely right, and I apologize for not being more clear. I was responding to a specific case involving a grown man, and I generalized. I shouldn’t have.
Because had the women been attractive, I would be talking and boasting about how I got laid at 15 by some random woman who started talking to me and my friends at the mall.
@Nava: At 15 I had thick facial hair and was the same height/build (maybe a little thinner) as I am at 28. I don’t think they knew I was underage.
Possibly SOME do get fucked up by it. Some adults can’t handle it either. Especially the ones who grew up with overbearing parents who wouldn’t even let them get basic sex ed.
Wow. You REALLY got me. I like how we use KIDS as a blanket term in an attempt to amplify the emotional response of others.
I like how you can graduate from kid to an adult instantaneously because of some arbitrary legal age. At 16 I was pretty much an adult, living by myself and taking care of myself. I had friends who were in their twenties who I could have probably had sex with had I not had a girlfriend closer to my age. I had access to drugs and alcohol, but I’ve never even smoked pot and only got drunk once and that was when I was 25. Perhaps that has something to do with my attitude towards the current topic.
I realize we have to draw the line somewhere, but lets not be so black and white about it.
I feel like your use of the words “adolescent teen” and your description of an incredibly responsible 16 year old being used instead of the very child like 13 year old girls we were originally talking about is an effort to downplay the realities of this subject. I also don’t see what’s so hard about not having sex with kids. What exactly makes it not black and white? This discussion isn’t about an 18 year old senior and his 16 year old girlfriend; its about adults, usually over the age of 30 or so, chatting up 12-14 year olds online and going to their homes for sex. It’s a black and white situation, and the fact that you don’t see that is disturbing, to say the least.
I’m not downplaying it, I am trying to expose the gray area. What about women with boys? What about mature teens? And not all of them were 12-14. From what I have read, they mostly pose at 15 yo (I guess that’s the sweet spot). And of course 1 year below legal age in most states.
As someone who has no real addictions or mental illness, I have no idea how difficult it is. And that is exactly my point: NEITHER DO YOU! Unless you are admitting that you are a pedophile and that you find it quite easy to overcome your urges to molest children, then you can’t exactly refute my claims by simply stating: I don’t see what’s so hard…
I don’t see what’s so hard about it either. I don’t see why it’s so hard for people to abstain from drinking alcohol, smoking pot, shooting heroin, or popping pills. I don’t see why homicidal maniacs can’t just relax and not kill people.
Perhaps it’s kinda hard. And perhaps, since I believe in will power, those who WILL themselves to not commit these heinous acts MIGHT be a better individual than I am because I have no such defect to begin with. And perhaps that is why I am a bit sympathetic to people who seem to be getting persecuted(in my opinion).
It’s one thing to jail someone for committing a crime. It’s a completely different story when you have people exploiting the weaknesses of the mentally ill.
Why aren’t we going around in chat rooms trying to find kleptomaniacs?
RichDude777: Yep. I just picked up a new LED HD TV and surround sound system. Too bad that security system installer can’t make it out here until next month because of that long vacation I am taking. Plus I have to leave a key under the doormat outside so the neighbor kid can walk my dog.
StealzYoShit: Wow. That sounds tough my friend… What was your address again?
In your opinion, which person is the victim? The legally adult sex offender who molests or rapes someone under the legal age of consent, or the underaged person?
When a pedophile crosses the line to become a child molester, I no longer have any sympathy for them.
However, we are not talking about child molesters. We are talking about people who have not committed any crime. They were talking with an adult pretending to be a child to lure a mentally ill person.
If the person confesses and truly was intending to do something like that, he should go to jail. But I believe many of these people thought it would be easier for them to take a plea deal before it went to court (apparently only 1 TCAP case was ever taken to court - and the guy was acquitted!). Meaning: I don’t think many of their confessions are legit.
Getting back to your question… who would be the victim? It depends on if there is a victim. When I first began in this discussion I don’t think I would have had the same viewpoint, but I don’t think every underage girl who has sex with an adult is a victim. Some of them definitely are. I don’t think it’s as simple as saying: person A is this age and person B is that age, thus there must be a victim in this relationship. Probably some of the men who went to jail on TCAP were victims as well.
I think it’s probably good to have laws to discourage behavior we find unacceptable, but I don’t think it’s ethical to set traps. The logic seems to be: it’s worth ruining the lives of x many adult individuals who may never have acted on their impulses if it means saving 1 ‘child’ from having sex with an adult.