I’ve heard mention in a few Spiderman threads that he beat the crap out of Firelord. But isn’t that the guy with the flame staff that can face off against the Silver Surfer? Yeah, Spidey is way cool and all, but how did he manage to beat the guy?
Yoiks, it’s been years since I read that story but IIRC he beat him the same way he beats other opponents who are far superior to him in raw strength and power. He wore him down and beat him into submission.
It was either that or he kept away from him long enough to get whatever bee Firelord had in his bonnet taken care of.
I actually reread those issues just a few months ago so my memory of the fight is pretty fresh. Firelord came to Earth looking for pizza (no, really) and set a pizza place’s oven on fire because he had been told that it had to be warmed up. One thing led to another and Spider-Man showed, and thinking that Firelord was threatening people (which he was) Spider-Man took a few shots at him. This offended Firelord greatly and he vowed to kill Spidey. At this point Spider-Man realized how powerful Firelord was and basically just tried to get away, but Firelord kept up in hot pursuit. Finally Spidey lured Firelord into a condemned building in a pretty vacant part of town that had been wired for detonation, and at the last minute leaped out of it leaving Firelord to have a building collapsed on top of him. Firelord was of course now more pissed off than ever, and Spidey having led him into a pretty open area away from bystanders had no choice but to take him head on. Spidey went into one of his berserker modes, becoming a blur leaping around Firelord, until eventually he knocked him out. At this point the Avengers showed up and hauled Firelords unconcious body away.
Now you may doubt that Spider-Man could have K.O.'ed Firelord, but this was two issue fight that not only had Firelord having a building dropped on him, but also had him flying headfirst into a building and anything else Spidey could think of to slow him down, so by the time the fight’s climax rolled around Firelord was pretty well beat up. All in all a good couple of issues (except for that pizza thing).
Actually, the real answer is mojo. Mojo is the most powerful and ephemeral of superhero abilities. With enough mojo, a hero (or even a villain, although they usually don’t have as much) can overcome opponents who are stronger, faster, smarter, or just generally more powerful. Spiderman has a lot of mojo. More than, say, Aquaman, but not nearly as much as Wolverine. And no hero in any comic universe has as much mojo as Batman. Oddly, the most powerful superheros have very little mojo. Superman, for example, has almost none, but makes up for it pretty much every other department.
And, of course, mojo can change over the course of a character’s life. Dick Greyson as Robin had almost no mojo, but as Nightwing has a fair amount. And his replacement, Jason Todd, may have been the only superhero in history to actually have negative mojo. Which is why he got beaten to death with a crowbar.
No, seriously, this has piqued my interest too. How the crap could Spiderman beat one of Galactus’ heralds? Did he lure Firelord into an aquarium? Did he get the Human Torch to go after Firelord, then beat feet while the getting was good? I’d like to know.
I read somewhere that he led him on a merry chase around town, dropped a building on him, then went into Spidey berserker mode and knocked him unconscious. I forget where I read this, though.
KKBatousai, thank you.
lol.
Spidey berserker? I guess Firelord has a glass jaw or something.
Seem to remember spidey tricked firelord into flying headfirst into a subway train as well. I didn’t find it too unlikely for spidey to beat firelord. After all, he has kicked human torch around a bit in the past, and firelord (despite his ego) doesn’t seem to be much more powerful.
Plus, I think it was pointed out that he was severely depleted in energy from traveling a great distance.
I always loved seeing Spidey spaz out on a much stronger villain. Remember when he fought Juggernaut?
Spidey doesn’t look like much, but when he exerts himself his strength is pretty high.
The detail of the last fight is actually spider-man getting desperate. He couldnt outrun Firelord, he was overmatched in raw power, he had already dropped buildings and trains on him and he was detroying a lot of property in the process not to mention endagering thousands of lives since Firelord didnt give a damn about the people. (plus the Avengers took their sweet bippy time getting to them)
as Asylum mentioned, spidey took Firelord to a vacant lot for a showdown. Spidey was in a near panic and was really scared he was going to die. With spider speed and agility he hit Firelord over and over again as hard as he could as fast as he could as many times as he could at everyplace he could. He kept on pummeling Firelord over and over until Capt America calmly stopped him and quieted Spidey down. At which point Firelord (still standing) just basically collapsed unconscious.
What are you guys talking about you cant figure Spider-man cant beat someone like the herald of Galactus. Heck, spider-man has beaten the Hulk and Juggernaut. (in separate fights of course)
Another important thing about the finale of that battle was that Firelord was so angry and energy-depleted at that point that he wasn’t using his cosmic fire against Spidey. He was trying to punch Spider-Man. Of course, with his Spider-Sense, Spidey can dodge almost any blow. But Firelord, arrogant as always, didn’t bother to avoid any of the hits Spidey was directing at him (though, as a herald of Galactus, his reflexes are so superhuman he can dodge lasers).
In answer to Miller, there was a time when Spider-Man had more mojo than Wolverine. I’m thinking of the two-issue run of X-men in which a sorceror called Kulan Gath turned Manhattan into a fantasy realm. Most heroes were transformed into some other form and personality. The bad guy knew that Spidey was the real symbol to the people of New York, so he was left as is, but tortured and actually crucified. In the climax battle, when the X-men and Avengers are just starting to realize things are not as they are supposed to be, Spider-Man does a feat of strength and will by snapping the cross he’s nailed to in half. That was a major exhibition of mojo.
Sorry it took me so long to reply.
Thank you for the explanation. Ever since I posted this thread I’ve been hoping that the answer wasn’t going to reference that horrible Cosmic Spidey arc that I’ve heard about (one of the few “upgrade” story arcs that sounds worse than Electric Superman).
I’ve always liked Spidey as a superhero, because he’s powerful enough to not get waxed immediatily by the more powerful people, but not so tough that he can’t ever be stopped. I love Spidey’s “secret” power: he can take a beating second only to Wolverine, and still find just enough mojo to beat the bad guy.
The Spiderman sequel is rumoured to have Doc Oc as the bad guy. Any thoughts on this? I’m all for it, with maybe some merc muscle like Rhyno or Shocker as well. I’m really hoping Venom doesn’t appear, simply because I don’t want to see two hours of Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better. Are there any other villians y’all would like to see?
By any chance, are you a HeroClix player?
Apparently Spidey has the proportionite mojo of a spider as well.
The TaskMaster miniseries has a partial explanation of Spidey’s success. His standard tactic is to keep the villian too pissed off to focus, or plan tactics. Yes, Firelord could take a moment to recharge(A few issues of the Infinity trilogy state that heralds can recharge by using solar energy) and then blast Spidey to ashes. But, Spidey is has years of practice at keeping the other guy too angry and distracted to plan a move other than “kill the blasted web slinger!”.
The issues of Silver Surfer also showed that a herald can be worn down. The Surfer is rushing to earth to warn the heroes that Thanos has the Inifinity Gems. It’s a long trip, even for him. Besides travelling at top speed, Thanos toys with him along the way. The Surfer feels he can’t take the time to rest. He finally crashes throufgh Dr Strange’s roof and passes out from exhaustion.
Additionally, Firelord is an explorer, not a warrior. He may have the power cosmic, but that doesn’t mean he has real fighting skills.
I have the vs. Firelord issues tucked away (Amazing Spider-Man 269-270, as I recall) and after a lot of preliminaries, Spidey pounds Firelord into insensibility on the second-to-last page, which strikes me as a rather abrupt resolution, actually.
Similarly, I have an issue when he fights Juggernaut, and the end is a bit more plausible in that he tricks Juggy into walking into a quicksand-like building foundation filled with wet cement. Juggy sinks. Fight over.
And I have the issue in which Spidey takes on a time-travelling “Iron Man 2020” (Arno Stark, Tony’s grandson). Spidey gets mad and just trashes Arno.
I thought for a while that Spidey’s spider-sense might in some way be similar to another Marvel character’s psychic ability: Karnak, of the Immortals. Karnak could sense an object or person’s “most vulernable point” and strike at it, defeating opponents (and destroying objects) far beyond what one would expect. I can imagine that when Spidey lets instincts take over (as in extreme fear or extreme rage) he goes on autopilot and can clobber just about anybody by chipping away at vulnerable spots. In the very first punch of the Iron Man 2020 dustup, IM2020 loses his “gyros”, an apparantly crucial component. Spidey then takes him apart.
Of course, I also have issues in which Spidey gets beaten into unconsciousness by Daredevil. DD’s strategy was specifically to get Spidey angry and swinging wildly. It seems to me that any such fight should end with DD being reduced to a bloody pulp.
Mojo is a fickle fickle bitch.
Is it just me or has DD always seemed sort of like the marvel version of batman?