My cats love the smell of mink oil. I’m too drunk to post more, but i will read posts 50-59 carefully in the morning.
Yeah, and I just realized I put it in my post twice. Double the weird.
Is my best friend “public”? Because, you see, my SO is part of my life and therefore an integral part of most my personal stories. If I tell my best friend about my life, and about my problems (the latest quarrel with my SO about me putting on weight, for instance) it’s hard to do so without telling her some things my SO doesn’t like out in the open.
When I talk to my best friend, I’m not bashing my SO. I talk about what he said, what I said, how unreasonable I was, how that made me feel, how it might have made him feel, etc. Girl stuff. Two sided. My stories are full of respect for my SO because I am full of respect for my SO. But yes, I ***AM * ** sharing private stuff with her. Guys, how bad is that? What’s the alternative, besides a don’t ask-dont’t tell policy in which you never eavesdrop on those phoneconversations?
Most women may well be; I really don’t know. But I can tell you that I’d pick respect over love. Maybe that makes me horribly unfeminine, somehow.
<hijack> Actually, now that I think of it–I don’t think anyone ever has to choose between being respected and being loved. I’m not sure it’s possible for anyone to love someone they have no respect for. You could, I suppose, feel a certain condescending affection towards someone you have no respect for, but I don’t think you could truly love that person.
Maybe, among the people you know, the men have an idea of what “respect” is that differs from the women’s idea of what “respect” is. </hijack>
Respect would have to be there, but if it were ONLY respect, then that wouldn’t be enough. For me anyway. The chemistry, that “IT” factor, love, friendship, the “connection” would HAVE to be there.
Men I’ve talked to don’t seem to feel the same way, maybe that’s what the poster who said “most women are the opposite” meant?
I’d guess that that’s true for anybody, really. “The ‘it’ factor,” as you say, is what makes a romantic relationship romantic, right?
But we really shouldn’t be discussing the topics of what respect and love are here in this thread. We’ve gotten pretty far away from the topic of the OP.
True, but I have talked to many men who, when asked this question (what do you want from a woman), answer with “someone who respects me”.
This answer perplexes me to no end, especially when these men are unable to think of a single other thing that they want in a mate. “Respect” is rather ambiguous really. And those same men don’t seem to want, or know what they want above and beyond this “respect”.
Makes it kind of hard to know how to “treat” that sort. Or, to be honest, even be interested in that sort. It’s as if they’ll "settle for anyone, as long as there is “respect” involved.
Not sure if that’s too terribly off the OP or not. If it is, my apologies for the hijack 
That depends. Do you mind if he discusses your sex life with his friends?
No, respect is not ambiguous at all, and in addition, should never be put in irony quotes. Perhaps this is an example of a gender disconnect?
Why do I feel this is a rhetorical question? :dubious:
Anyway, good comparison. I would mind if he was bragging, complaining or venting. I also don’t want friends of his that I meet socially to know my bed-secrets, especially not the problem areas. But if my SO talked (resepctfully and in not too much graphic detail, as I will do about a row) about our sexlife with a good friend, with the purpose of bettering the relationship with me, that would be a good thing.
The comparison is faulty, however, in that talking about sex can be avoided. My relationship with my SO is such a big part of my life that it’s hard to leave him out of MY stories. I would have very little left to talk about.
This is emphatically not about you, as I don’t know you. But let’s say a guy is hung up on the fact that his girlfriend had a lot of sexual partners, which is to say “more than him”. Is he allowed to discuss her past with his buddies? Does that depend on whether their reaction is to say “woman are human, it’s no big deal” versus “dump that slutty ho”?
Is he allowed to complain to his buddies about how his girlfriend turns into a raging hormone PMS monster from hell? Or discuss the huge fight they had the night before? Or that she doesn’t want sex as much as he’d like? Or the worst, that she uses sex as a power play? “If you don’t do the dishes, I’ll be thinking about it and so I won’t be in the mood”, which is the classic passive-aggressive sexual power play. You say specifically that he’s not allowed to vent, but it sounds like some of what you do with your girlfriends is venting. That’s uncool.
I’ve had several relationships where my girlfriend would tell her close galpals everything about me and my relationship, but then would get her panties in a twist when she found out a friend of mine knew something about her that wasn’t complimentary. I see a double-standard there.
Basically yes, it was a rhetorical question for the purpose of reminding all that what is good for the gander is good for the goose.
On a personal note, if all you have to talk about with your girlfriends is your boyfriend, then I say there is a problem there. Either you are far too focused on the relationship to the detriment of your own development as an individual, or at very least you are probably annoying your girlfriends. Just my two cents.
<shrug> It’s still interesting.
I think the respect CanvasShoes is musing on is all about treatment. The men who are looking for Respect-above-all in a relationship are (I think) looking for someone who will treat them as an adult. Responsible, thoughtful adulthood is hard to find in American culture, given the way we focus on youth and people on reality TV who really aren’t responsible thoughtful adults.
These:
Are okay (although don’t let her catch you using the phrase “PMS monster from hell” as that would not count as “respectful discussion”). These:
Are not okay unless she has specifically given you permission to discuss them. Those things are private.
Anway, if you are dating a PMS monster from hell who uses sex as manipulation and is sexually incompatible with you anyway, you have bigger problems than “venting” to a buddy will solve.
I think Maastricht is talking about a mature, respectful relationship between two stable adults. Speaking in a general way about the problems between them (not the problems with one of them) is not disrespectful. It is the way many women (and men) think about things.
NO, and they weren’t irony quotes. Just quotes meant to say that it could mean different things to different people. And it does.
Some people see “respect” as meaning that the person never disagrees with them, or is “mean” or has a thought of their own. While to others it means that they are “nice” to them (another ambiguous word).
Oops, sorry, that wasn’t supposed to be a capped NO.
Your whole post is a perfect example of what I meant when I said that respect was ambiguous. Depending upon the person, any of the situations or opinions you list could be thought of as “respectful” or not, depending upon the person on the receiving end.
That was what I was trying to get at. I can’t imagine anybody being in a good relationship where both were not present, and I really can’t imagine how you can love someone (in the context of romantic love) without respecting them. I’ve just observed that, as you call it, the “IT” factor is slightly different between men and women. Maybe what I’m saying is, as SusanStoHelit said, bullshit, but it’s what I’ve observed.
I have a somewhat different take on the “don’t say bad things about me in public” issue. If I’m in a relationship, and my girlfriend has a best (presumably female) friend, I’ll assume that everything that happens with us is potentially discussable with that friend. Why wouldn’t it be? That friend is an important part of my girlfriend’s life, as am I, and when my girlfriend has problems with me (which might occasionally happen, despite my near-godlike male perfection) what’s she going to do, NOT talk about them? There’s a big big BIG difference between discussing problems with a close, intimate friend; and gossiping. On occasions when there’s something that I truly honestly feel must be kept confidential from EVERYONE, I will so specify, and will assume that this wish will be respected.
However, what I was initially thinking about with respect to discussing things in public is something that my non-romantic female good friend and former roommate does which just drives. me. up. the wall. Suppose she is upset with me about something fairly minor. Well, that happens. And she may well be right that I was in the wrong. But frequently, I’d be out in the living room playing cards with some of my (presumably male) buddies, and she would walk out and start discussing this issue with me, right there in front of them. And my goodness, did that just infuriate me. First of all, it’s none of their business. And even if it was, just hearing her start criticizing me about it is giving them only one side of the story. And did I mention that it was none of their business? Grrrrrr…
I want you to want me
I need you to need me
I’d love you to love me …
There now that I got that out my system. I think many of the posts are on target but I few more things are true of me, at least.
I don’t need to be worshipped, but I’d like to be admired about something. Everybody is exceptional at something, and that something matters to somebody. Let us know what it is about us that you admire or take pride in. As long as it isn’t the size of our wallets. Most people I know think I’m pretty bright, and I know something about almost everything, but Mrs. Slow didn’t seem to care until the kids homework got harder. She did care, I just didn’t know, and that shouldn’t happen.
I’m good at more than one thing, and you don’t have to care about all of them, but let me pursue that at which I excel merely because I enjoy doing it. I probably wouldn’t excel if I didn’t enjoy it.
It is nice to know why you’ve been hanging around all these years. Why do you love me? Is it just a bad habit? I don’t think this is gender specific. Let’s face it, the spoken criticism is way more common than the spoken compliment.
Even better is one of your friends passing on a compliment you’ve said about us. Or saying something like, “Hey, Mrs Slow says you’re really good at blah. Could you give me a hand with blah?” It makes us (or maybe just me) feel good to know you say good things behind our back, especially since the popular media assumes the opposite. Again, I don’t think that is gender specific, either.
If I’m doing something I consider more pressing, even if it is something you consider a form of not doing anything - like watching football - “later” means “not now”. I suppose that could even be true of sex. If you are asking me to do something that I don’t think should be done, or I don’t I should be doing it, and you blow up when I say so, then “later” probably means “never”. The difference between nagging and saying when something is wrong is generally obvious. If I said “later”, and you keep asking me to do it, you are nagging. If I am still doing whatever it was for which I said “later”, you are nagging. If you are repeatedly asking me to change something about myself, you are nagging. If, CrazyCatLady, when your attitude is better to do than ask, just doing that something can be nagging. Frankly, your dad has probably learned that if he doesn’t do it, your mom will, and so he won’t have to.
Don’t bad mouth my family or friends. Odds are, I know them better than you. You can’t expect me to love you, warts and all, unless I can love imperfect people. (Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I know my own good and bad points, better than you. I’d want to hear good things you thing about me because I love you and I need to know why you love me, than for “self affirmation”.)
An occassional apology wouldn’t hurt either.
Well, guys actually want two other things out of life.
They want to be the main character in a heist movie and they want a monkey. A combination of these is even better.