How long are you supposed to correspond with a potential date?

Owing to pressing reasons best left undiscussed, I have been industriously and somewhat aggressively been attempting to date; the key word here being “attempting.” In particular, I’ve been, despite past disappointments, trying my hand at online dating, which has been going smashingly in the same way that a wino successfully drops an empty bottle of Wild Irish Rose on the sidewalk outside your bedroom window at oh-dark-thirty in the morning. Nonetheless, I have at least received a small and in fact nearly fractional number of responses, and of those which contain something that has a grammatical structure that can be parsed into recognizable English there is one that seems, or rather seemed, like a possible and perhaps even probable potential for pursuit. However, after nearly three weeks, six exchanges of e-mail messages, and there explicit suggestions to meet for coffee, drinks, or a light meal, I have yet to receive a positive response to said offers. (Twice she has claimed to be “too busy” for even a short meetup, and once she just flat out ignored the suggestion.) I understand being busy–right now at work I’m busier than a one-armed man in a wrongful murder plot–but the entire point of having a profile on a dating site and responding to messages is, at least in my skewed view of the societal macrocosm, is to actually meet someone; if I wanted someone to exchange e-mail with I’d just start another bizarre and tangential e-mail chain that my friends and co-workers enjoy so much.

Mind you, I’m not even all that enthralled with the woman in question; she’s basically at the bottom tier of women I sent messages to, and I doubt we have enough in common to fill an entire evening of conversation. I basically view this as a practice date, or the off-chance that she’ll turn out to be a far more interesting person than she appears in her profile. If she just wasn’t that interested in meeting me, or just blew me off, I wouldn’t be heartbroken enough to waste a sip of cheap whiskey on her. But she keeps responding and at surprising (some would say excessive) length, albeit without any apparent intention of actually meeting. I know I can be a bit abrupt when it comes to social interaction, but it still seems to me that this amount of correspondence is excessive for the intended purpose, and this comes from the guy who writes three page monologues on why Lloyd Dobler is a vastly superior character to that toad-licking punk Ferris Bueller.

So how long is this sort of thing supposed to go on? Is this typical? Am I just monumentally impatient? Can or should I just cut my losses at this point, or is there some merit in continuing this electronic conversation with someone who in whom I’m only marginally interested?

Stranger

I would have given up by now. However, I have never been blessed by females falling over me so I am hardly an authority.

Hey Stranger, I’m probably the last person you’d want to take dating advice from, as I’m sure you’ve summarized if you’ve been following any of my recent threads at all. But seeing as I’ve recently found myself in a similar boat, I thought I might be able to offer some insight.

So, in short, I haven’t had much (or really at all) a “love life.” To try and remedy that, I sent out a few emails on a dating site about a year and a half ago and met up with one of the girls…it did not go well, and it scared me off of trying online dating for almost two years. Well, I finally decided to try my hand at is again after feeling especially depressed one night and sent out maybe a dozen email to whoever tickled my fancy. Surprisingly, most of the girls responded, but most with only short replies and who didn’t seem to express much interest (by virtue of the fact they only talked about themselves and didn’t ask any follow-up questions), either then, or in the subsequent email or two (why they bothered to respond at all, I have no idea.)

However, one girl actually did respond very thoughtfully, which then lead to a 10-day correspondence spanning 5 emails or so each (all of considerable length, beyond the first two) before I finally decided to ask her out. She accepted and we met that weekend (two weeks after the initial email) and had a really damn good time (quite in stark contrast to my first online date!)! We’ve since corrosponded almost daily since and have plans to meet up again this upcoming weekend (would have sooner had it not been for scheduling conflicts.)

I don’t know how much insight my little story provides (if any), but I wanted to at least offer some rough idea of the correspondence at least one other person has gone through. In my case, the only girl worth emailing was the one who showed as much interest in me as I did with her. I don’t know what the ideal “asking out after initial contact” time is, but the 10-day figure worked for me. It helped us get to know each other (well, as much as one can via email) and I think ultimately made the transition to an actual date really quite easy (I mean, she tolerated me for over 7 hours, so I think that says something!) =P

Again, I’m an idiot when it comes to this stuff, but there be my experience. Don’t give up after just a few emails–I probably emailed at least 30 girls in total before I found her. And granted, who knows what, if anything, will come of this, but I do know that I really like her now and we had fun together, and that’s really all that matters. As for your specific situation, I too would have given up. I’m not quite sure why she’s still emailing you if she apparently has no interest in meeting, but I’ve given up on a few girls I emailed who also responded, but showed no apparent interest. The time I wasted responding to them was better served emailing other girls.

I’m even less an authority than Red Barchetta on this subject, but my inclination would be to tell her pretty much what you just told us (I’d probably leave out terms like ‘bottom tier’ though ;)). You’re on a dating site to get dates. You already have people you exchange emails with and aren’t looking to find more. An in person meeting should quickly establish whether there is potential for a relationship. And if such a meeting isn’t going to happen, you’d rather spend your valuable time on other matters.

If it works, you get your practice date. If she calls you a jerk, well, who cares… That’s the beauty of online dating :slight_smile:

It is entirely possible that I’m way off base, so take the above with a large grain of salt…

Nope, Diz, you’re right. Stranger, if you’ve suggested a meeting three times and it hasn’t happened, it’s not going to.

Tell her “I’ve enjoyed corresponding, but I’m looking to find someone IRL, so good luck and happy trails.”

"Dear Xxxxx.

I am using the online service as a way to MEET people, not to find pen pals. I appreciate whatever concerns you may have about face to face meetings with internet acquaintences, but that is in fact what we both signed up for.

So, in an attempt to address your concerns, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to sit down for a meal at Y place at Z time. I will have (some particular item or piece of clothing) so you can identify me.

I hope you will sit down and join me. If not, there’s really no point in continuing this conversation."

Good idea – then you’ll have something to post in the “have you ever been stood up?” thread!

No matter how this ends up playing out, we are talking about a gold mine of thread material here.

This is exactly the approach I would typically take. The problem I have with this is it comes off sounding not just a little bitter, and may be bait for the drama-inclined (which I’d prefer to avoid). I’ve also been warned by several female acquaintances against the direct and blunt approach to dealing with dating issues. My interest in this woman is only to the extent of practicing my remedial dating skills, so if I seriously screw up I’m perfectly happy to chalk it up to experience and move on, but I’m trying to do something different than what I’ve done (with little success) in the past.

I’ve been stood up more times than a toy soldier.

Stranger

In using match.com fairly successfully a few years ago I’ve found that women are just as picky as men in terms of what they want and visual attraction is just as important to them.

Whatever pictures you are using need to be an honest representation of yourself, but they also need to show you in the most attractive light possible. Outdoor candid and activity shots with friends are good and being photographed smiling or laughing is a big plus. If a man is not reasonably fit in photos he will not typically get much play from reasonably fit women.

In your description you really need to be somewhat general, but throw in an unexpected and interesting element or two. ie “I’m a cowboy-rocket scientist”. If you’re coming across in your profile as being an intense brainiac this will cost you as this is not a plus for many women, even bright ones. You need to come off as bright, clever, but non-ponderous. Doing something artsy is a big plus in profile descriptions.

Profile descriptions also need to be scrubbed of any impatience, bitterness or hints that you have “issues” with an ex (more a problem for female profiles) They need to be general and open to new experience. If you do something recreationally that’s neat or interesting offer than up a date possibility.

Don’t write a book, edit yourself mercilessly, every word has to count. Send your profile link to some trusted female dopers for critiques. Women who get past the photo test of you being date worthy will scan your profile like a CIA dossiser for hidden meanings. It needs to be right the first time.

As a woman who has done the online dating thing, I can tell you it can be a little scary meeting men in real life after only knowing them online. You’ve heard all the horror stories and I can assure you we’ve heard them and more. Some women take those stories to heart more than others though. So it may me as simple as her being ‘scared’ but that’s no excuse. I’ve been in the same situation with men wanting to meet literally hours after we first corresponded online. Umm no, definitely not comfortable with that. But she needs to tell you her concerns and not just blow you off.

If she were someone you were really into, I’d suggest that you exchange phone numbers with her and talk on the phone first. For many women, that helps alleviate any concerns they have. But since it sounds like you really don’t care that much for her and are more or less ‘done’ with her, just do as everyone else has suggested and end it.

I think it is good to assertively move things on but this runs the risk of seeming a little aggressive, even bitter. In this lady’s shoes, if I was undecided, this wouldn’t probably turn a ‘maybe’ to a ‘no thank you’ If nothing else, there is a vague sense you are presenting yourself as something unpleasant but necessary - a bit like a dentist’s check up - specifically this bit - " I appreciate whatever concerns you may have about face to face meetings with internet acquaintences, but that is in fact what we both signed up for" but honestly, the whole tone is a bit brusque, and I think your instinct is wise.

Turning it around as though the experience will be potentially great for both of you, partly because you are going to make the occasion fun because you are interesting and diverting company might change the presentation a bit.

Promethea takes her stab! :wink:

"Dear [Woman],

I have been enjoying writing to you and reading your replies very much. I think it would now be great to meet, face to face. Written communication is a wonderful way to begin to get to know someone [total lie, but whatever] but I think it is now time for us to meet face to face. I would love it if you could be my guest at [insert date here] "

THEN if she blows you off, I would go with plan B.

My only slight concern is that it isn’t really true, is it? I honestly do sympathise as a fellow single person but really chasing someone you aren’t really into is just depressing and ultimately wasting your time. I also wonder if one of the reasons she isn’t responding is that she kind of gets that your interest isn’t sincere. Other women truly are available and would actually like to get to know you - this is risking distracting you and just keeping you away from them.

If she’s blown off your suggestion to meet three times already, I would just stop corresponding with her. When I was searching, I put in my profile that I was looking to actually meet people, two or three emails were fine to see if there was any interest, but I after that I wanted to meet. I don’t want to waste my time or theirs. There were several who looked great on paper that just did not work for me in real life.

My advice to you is to keep looking.

Yeah, it’s probably best that I left out the part about past exchanges with other women, because “cock teasing bitches” doesn’t come across as very welcoming. :stuck_out_tongue:

Check, check, and check. I’ve actually had a professional PR person look over the profile (a casual associate of a friend, and therefore no incentive to sugarcoat the critique) and other than a few minor wording changes she called it very good. The only suggestions she made for additions were stuff that I considered borderline dishonest and only likely to attract women that I wasn’t interested in, i.e. “I love Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan romantic comedies…” Actually one point that was mentioned was that it might be “too well written,” i.e. intimidating in vernacular and correct grammar; on that basis I did go back and simplify some of the language, but I’m not really interested in someone who can’t handle a few paragraphs of plainly literate prose. (I’ve already received one response from a woman that was so grammatically incoherent I didn’t even bother to respond.)

Pictures are all either outdoor activities (snowboarding, hiking, et cetera) or hanging out with friends, and therefore show me with the best approximation of a normal smile as possible, and other people (particularly women who look like they could be possible competition) are all cropped out.

That’s pretty much in line with what I think already; however, so far I’ve sent out over eighty messages and gotten three responses; one unreadable, one that was friendly but apologetic (she was already involved with someone and had forgotten to take the profile down), and this one. This is on two different sites and I’ve already exhausted the profiles that are of appropriate age, reasonable location, and genuinely interesting in any substantial way. (There are two more sites I’ve browsed but haven’t really found anyone who looks like they’d rock my world, or even modal jazz my tectonic plate, so I’m focusing on the first two for now.)

I don’t want to be desperate but I’m trying to at least get some kind of marginal success out of this before getting too discouraged, plus I have progressively compelling reasons to be dating; however, I don’t really have time to do a lot of social things and don’t otherwise meet available and appropriate women in my normal activities. So I’m trying to figure out a way to make this work better, but I also don’t have any need to be strung along by some emotional cripple who can’t extend herself enough to have a few minutes of light conversation over coffee.

It would make a great band name for a Neko Case side project, though.

Stranger

You’re a lot more patient that I am. I’d be using the “three strikes, you’re out” guideline; if you haven’t hooked up by the third attempt, you’re not going to.

This is quite true. Also be aware that women who have been on these sites forever (years in some cases - if the site lists length of membership) may not be the best shots. Sorting by the latest arrivals might be more fruitful.

If you’re not getting any play it might be worthwhile to check out your listed selection and like-dislike criteria and see if there’s something that’s turning women off. As an example if you list “not religious” or “atheist” or similar you might as well put skunk juice on yourself for the vast majority of women even if they are not that religious most women want some semblance of “spirituality” in potential mates. Listing that you are in any way “sarcastic” is also a big red flag for some women.

While I understand where you’re going with that, this is kind of a shrug for me. While I don’t make an issue of it in the profile beyond checking the box, I’m really not going to be good even casually dating someone who is seriously concerned about my spirituality or lack thereof. (Whether she is spiritual or religious is, at least casually, a non-issue for me as long as I’m not expected to participate or is expected to be a regular topic of conversation.) Ditto for a few other deal-breakers (smoking, kids, et cetera). I realize that limits my pool somewhat, but it limits it to women I might have some interest in.

Stranger

I spent maybe four months on a couple of dating websites, at the same time that a couple of my friends were in the same boat, and we had lengthy discussions regarding this very topic. One thing we discovered was that different dating websites have very different tones - OKCupid, which I used more than they, lent itself more to longer email exchanges before meeting in person, Match.com was apparently (I didn’t use it myself) more to-the-point. Craigslist seemed more varied - my experiences ranged from one email before a date to a lengthy exchange more like yours, although unfortunately with more interest on my part. As it turns out, the girl in question was uninterested romantically, but would have continued the email chain regardless. So it’s certainly possible to run into people who don’t have any intention of an eventual physical meeting.

On a more general note, you can certainly tailor your email correspondence to aim for longer or shorter pre-meeting exchanges. Personally, I began with fairly long strings of email before suggesting a meeting - I was fairly nervous regarding dating, and since I do enjoy written conversation, it seemed logical to ensure that the people I (eventually) met were interesting. One of my friends had the opposite view - that if you don’t click in person, there’s little reason to have long discussion, entertaining or no. I have to say I’ve come to appreciate that view more, at least in a dating-site milieu. Specifically, lots of pre-meeting emails can be nice, but give rise to much more disappointment if the final date doesn’t turn out well. I found that while a long string of emails could convince me that I liked a person more, I could more or less figure out which people I was unwilling to meet within a few emails. Moreover, a shorter gestation period, if you will, meant I could simply have more dates without trying to deal with too many people at once. Plus, I might be a little biased, since I met my current girlfriend after only a few emails.

Hopefully some of that was at least a little enlightening, if not for the specific person in question, then perhaps more generally. Best of luck.

I’m in a very similar situation. There’s this girl that works in a gas station near me. We always exchanged pleasantries. then started occasionally chitchatting for a few minutes. She seemed friendly enough, so one day I asked her out. “I’ll think about it” was the response. Erm, ok thats a bit of a strange response but whatever.
A week or two goes by, I see her a few times at work and she’s friendly but says she’s still thinking. Now, I am not super attached to this girl or anything. She seemed friendly and I liked talking to her so I asked her out.

So to make a long story short, we were supposed to go out 3-4 times and she backed out every time. She initiated the date 3 times, then backed out, I asked her a couple times and she backed out. So I just dropped it. I don’t see her up there that much anymore but when I do we chitchat as usual, and she asked once why I haven’t been by in a while “I thought you were mad at me”. Erm, no, I just don’t want to chase after someone that acts like it’s a big huge decision to just hang out for an evening. Maybe she’s just really shy or maybe there’s some stuff going in there I don’t know about. But whatever, we were supposed to go out a bunch of times and you backed out (sometimes at the last minute). So in my opinion, its up to her to give me a clear indication “yes I want to go out”, otherwise I’ll be friendly but I’m not asking her again.