How much do you owe a long-estranged parent? (kind of long)

How much is owed to a long-estranged parent? Asking for a friend. (Yes, truly. Both my parents, and my husband’s, have been dead for a long time.)

The situation: my friend has been contacted by her brother, asking – almost demanding – that she start paying half the cost for a better quality nursing home for their father, who has dementia along with other serious health problems.

Some history: my friend’s parents had a bitter divorce involving physical abuse and infidelity on both sides when she was six and her brother was ten. (Let’s call them Letty and Bob.) Letty stayed with her mother, Bob wanted to live with his father. This wasn’t a court-ordered thing, just the way they settled on – apparently acknowledging how attached/involved each child had already been with their parents. At first the sides lived in neighboring suburbs. Bob would spend weekends with Letty and the mother. The father would occasionally pick Letty up and take her out for a meal, or sometimes a movie, but that became rarer and rarer. About two years later the father’s job required him to move several states away, and basically there stopped being contact. As Letty puts it, the last time she heard from her father was a birthday card when she turned eleven, which was over forty years ago.

Letty’s mother died about twenty years ago. Letty is married, she and her husband had three children, two of them are married with children and the third is a gay man who so far hasn’t expressed an interest in marrying/having children. Letty and husband had basically a middle class lifestyle – they get along okay, own a house, helped put the children through college, and are now trying to beef up their savings so as to have a decent retirement and never be a financial burden to their children.

The father had a more roller-coaster life. At first he did well, getting promotions and so on, then the company he worked at failed, and after that, well, apparently he got new jobs but never as good as what he’d lost.

Bob is now the manager of one store in a national chain. He is divorced, and recently remarried a much younger women with two mid-teen stepchildren. The wife doesn’t work.

So, as I said, the father had/has various ills over the years, the most severe being kidney problems. He ended retiring early. Then he developed dementia and could no longer live independently. Unfortunately the costs of care quickly ate up whatever savings/assets he had had. He had to be moved to a different nursing home that would accept what Medicaid pays.

Bob has contacted my friend. He says the conditions there are totally unacceptable and wants to move his father back to the original facility. But that will cost a lot more. Bob says he can’t cover it all himself, due to having to support his wife and new children who are coming up on college age.

He wants Louise to help pay, because “He is your father, after all.” This would be thousands of dollars a month.

Louise told Bob they can’t afford to do it, but feels really guilty about it, because in fact they COULD pay it. But it would mean cuts in their life style, drastically cutting what they could save towards their own retirement, limit what funds they might have if their children need financial help for whatever reason, what if they develop health problems themselves?, and so on and so on.

Basically she doesn’t want to make those sacrifices, especially for a man who she hardly remembers. And a brother who is virtually a stranger, and his family who are utterly unknown. But she feels massively guilty about it at the same time. Like, she was the “lucky one” and her brother got the short end of the stick, for no fault of his own.

I’m trying to make her feel better about it, but I don’t really know what to say. The pragmatic side of me says she’s doing the right thing. She was not the cause of the estrangement, it was her parents who didn’t do what was needed to keep a relationship going between her father and her, and she definitely didn’t cause the father’s financial and medical problems. Is whatever improvement her father would experience, given his advanced dementia, “worth” the negative impacts on the lives of herself and her husband, and potentially on her children/grandchildren?

And yet… I dunno. We had to deal with my mother’s dementia, and that was hard. Even though our relationship was always close and loving, it still involved sacrifices that genuinely hurt sometimes. Would or could or should I have done as much in her kind of situation? But just saying, “Nope. Good luck with that.” to her brother, is that something that will haunt her at night?

I haven’t spoken to my own father in (finger math) thirty two years.

If he reappears and wants to borrow five euros for a cup of coffee, I’m telling him to pound sand, let alone thousands for elder care.

Your friend is one hundred percent entitled to do the same.

First, Letty has to accept her new name.

I don’t think she owes him anything, but I understand the guilt. So I would consider a few things. When Letty (face it, Letty is easier to spell on a screen keyboard than Louise) lost her mother, how much did the brother and father do for her mother at that time? Second, while the current nursing home isn’t nice, is the level of care decent? When my father had dementia, he had good care but it was clear to me that it didn’t matter to him if the place was bare bones facility, a fancy resort, or anything between. So she may decide that if her dad is getting decent care, that’s good enough, and shrug off some of that guilt. Maybe Bob would feel better if dad was in a nicer facility, but it probably doesn’t matter to dad.

You don’t owe anybody anything just by sharing chromosomes. You owe family and those two things are not synonyms.

I don’t think daughter owes father anything, because father never earned or deserved her support. And, also, I think we should all see to our own upkeep once we become adults, and never plan to burden our offspring, even if we have current and strong relationships. Moreover, I’m not hearing that dad’s current accommodations are not decent and sufficient for his condition.

Who is Louise?

I didn’t see that there was a break in Letty and her father’s relationship other than becoming separated by divorce. It’s up to her to decide what to sacrifice for her temporary birth father. If she doesn’t feel any obligation to help pay for his care she doesn’t have to. If she feels any obligation it’s up to her to decide what she can afford independently of her brother. Her brother probably feels guilty because he can’t cover the costs himself, but he can’t unilaterally decide what the costs will be or what his sister has to contribute even if she wants to.

My MIL, after a point in her dementia could care less where she was.
A porch, a street corner, and poolside resort. All the same. She just wasn’t aware of her surroundings.
As long as she had a fiddly thing in her hands, that’s all she fixated on.
Her place was a decent place. I wouldn’t want a vacation there but it was okay.
Clean and well staffed. Food was institutional. Didn’t matter. MIL wouldn’t eat anything but chicken nuggets, (she called them nugents) or things that appeared to be nuggets. Tater tots, corn dodgers, okra.
We had to get one nurse removed from her care. The nurse couldn’t abide with MILs fiddling hands. She’d remove her toy or scarf and fold her hands on her lap. This agitated MIL. For no reason. We were there enough to see this.

I’d go see this place where Letty’s father is. She can determine for herself how decent it is.

I would not fork over money without first hand knowledge.
It sounds fishy to me.

That’s something that only she can answer. So I would say that this is entirely up to her.

But, going by your description, the person in the nursing home seems more like her sperm donor than her father.

It also seems to me that she could do various inbetween things; including as has been suggested checking on what kind of care he is getting, whether he’s capable of telling the difference, and if he is still capable of telling the difference whether there are ways to get him anything that is seriously upsetting him fixed without moving him. She may need the brother’s approval to investigate, if he’s the current health care proxy and/or POA.

OP says Letty hadn’t heard anything from him since she turned eleven. I would definitely call that a break in the relationship.

It’s not like it’s a choice between the father living somewhere decent or living under a bridge. The daughter shouldn’t have to sacrifice her and her family’s happiness to make sure that her father who abandoned her when she was a child lives in an upgraded facility. Upgrades that he probably won’t be aware of in his dementia.

The kid in the OP owes NOTHING. Their sole concern ought to be what action will they be best able to live with in the long run.

Me, I’d be able to live with contributing nothing. In fact, I wouldn’t care what quality of care the father is receiving, or whether his life is being extended.

Letty ought to consider what kind of relationship she hopes to maintain w/ Bob, and how she’ll feel in the dark hours of the night if she does nothing. Me, I’d sleep like a baby. But everyone is different.

You hit the nail on the head. If Letty’s father couldn’t care enough about her to be there for her graduation, wedding, kids being born, 40 years of her life, etc., why should she care what quality of care he receives? It wouldn’t even cross my mind that this is something to feel guilty about.

I like @Beckdawrek’s suggestion of checking on the acceptability of his care on her own, instead of just hearing from Bob. But, it is a risk. What if she visits and finds that his care is appalling? (It’s not like there aren’t really bad care facilities in the US - I believe it’s something of a national scandal.) She should only see for herself IF she has an idea in mind of what she will do if his conditions are truly inhumane.

However, that’s only if she wants to. I agree with others - she doesn’t owe him a damn thing.

I’m going to try to give a nuanced answer. My own situation first.

My parents divorced, and not particularly pleasantly, when I was 8. My younger brother and I did the semi-normal live with mother and be with father on weekends and holidays.

My mother eventually moved further away (roughly 400 miles), at which point we ended up reversing the situation so we didn’t have to change schools. And both my parents ended up in steady relationships afterwards.

Thankfully, they both did their best to make sure we got to see each other, even with the travel involved, and so I was never estranged from either. But there was always the tension, and the feeling/wonder of if I was treating them equally when I spent so much more time with my father. So, being torn is absolutely fair.

Still - I feel the OP’s friend has no obligation OTHER than that which they wish to assume. How much is sub-11 years of parenting worth. IMHO - I would start small. Visit. Meet the brother (but DON’T stay with them - hotel and rental car). See the facility the father lives in, and if it meets a level they feel comfortable with.

If so - well, then better living circumstances are a much appreciated luxury, but so are all the ones they enjoy. Perhaps, in vein of irony, send bi-annual (Birthday and Xmas) gifts (smallish) of cash for the father’s care.

If no, well, I wouldn’t suggest the OPs friend -sign- anything giving them legal obligation for debts. But rather than half, offer something that assuages guilt ($100-200 a month max, certainly NOT a few thousand a month) while frankly telling brother that their father had not helped them during the 40 years apart no made an effort to reconnect while still of sound mind.

It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. But, and I cannot be more clear, it should be HER choice, if any duty, she has more to her chosen family than a father that abandoned his duties while still young. I suggest the compromise because in the long run, for the remaining years the father is likely to live, that she may feel better contributing rather than a few years down the line missing an opportunity, however small, to address any conflicted feelings she may still have.

I want to repeat a point before anyone brings me to task. TO BE CLEAR, it is not about an obligation she should have to the father, but more about feeling comfortable with herself.

This is the easiest question ever. She owes her dad nothing. Maybe if she had a good relationship with the brother it would be nice to help him but that doesn’t seem to be the case. They chose not to be a part of Letty’s life and this is the consequence of that choice.

Yeah, she doesn’t owe him anything.

The estrangement was on him 100%. If he wanted someone to take care of him in old age, maybe don’t cut your 11-year-old daughter out of your life.

Yeah this is the only thing worth considering IMO. Her relationship with her brother is important. On the other hand he must (or may?) understand that her father did nothing to obligate her to do this, its not a given that it would irreparably harm their relationship.

She can try to assign a value to the relationship she has with her father, emotional and monetary. Sounds like over the years the father has not provided much if any to her. Sorry to be somewhat “cut and dried” this is the amount she owes her father. Nothing. And if she has survived the type of relationship for all these years she should feel no guilt.

The other aspect is how much support did (again emotionally and monetary) she get from her brother and dad when her mom died? If nothing, that is what you owe, with no guilt attached.

If she feels she needs to make a trip and visit her father for closure, go for it. If I was in her shoes I would do this and have a clear conscience on any action, or lack of action she does. Just so she doesn’t get bullied by her brother, I could see him saying she needs to “pay up” in order to see her dad.

First off, I’m with the gang on saying she doesn’t OWE him anything. Especially if he abused her in any way (it’s not clear whether “physical abuse” means the parents abused each other, or the kids).

Looking at pragmatics: Let’s say she and brother decide they can each chip in a thousand a month to move Dad to the nicer place. Would Medicaid continue to provide any support at that point? Or would they need to foot the ENTIRE bill? They would need to be DAMN sure of that, before they made any kind of move. It’s a big difference going from Medicaid pays the entire 3K a month, to Medicaid pays 3K and each child pays 1K, to Medicaid says buh-bye and the kids are now paying 2.5K apiece.

And the purely “selfish” aspect (which frankly isn’t selfish at all): Letty is an age where she and her husband need to be saving, DILIGENTLY, for their own retirement. That protects them, and their soon-to-be adult kids. Her kids are past the age of needing college help, and arguably are no longer a drain on the parents’ finances. It’s nice if the parents can help them with emergencies, but right now Letty and spouse’s priority is to solidify their own finances, to reduce the risk of their own kids having to make choices like this.

And another aspect: Who’s the major breadwinner in Letty’s household? If her husband out-earns her, a lot of the “help dad” money would basically come from his pocket. That doesn’t seem entirely fair to the husband.

Another possibility would be for Betty to offer a lower-level of help. Medicaid-funded homes basically take all your income except a little bit for spending money (and I’m not sure how much, but maybe 50 bucks a month). IF SHE WISHES, she could contribute a smaller amount - a hundred or so a month - to cover clothing, treats or whatever. She is NOT obligated to, however, but it might appease that small amount of “look after the parents” guilt.

In terms of the conditions at Dad’s nursing home: is it unacceptable due to neglect or unsafe conditions? Or “just” kind of grim? Does Bob visit often? It’s my opinion that a resident will experience better care if the staff knows that family keeps an eye on things. When looking for places for the in-laws, all the adult “kids” agreed that it would NOT be where they lived (a thousand miles away) for that reason.

We have been in a position of needing to help the parents financially. We bought and maintained a small condo for them to live in - sheer luck that we were able to afford to do so, and it was frankly a fairly major financial strain. During this we were trying to save everything we could spare, because we knew that there would be no inheritance, and our adult kids are both special needs and unable to help in the future. When FIL passed away, and MIL was moved to assisted living, I was very up-front that while we could help with a couple months’ expenses, we could not commit to even a thousand a month long-term.

If it were me, I would say to bro: He can rot in hell for all I care. He made his bed, let him rest in it.

This is really the only salient information. Abandoning a ten-year-old child is such a cruel yet preventable decision that she owes him not a thought. Her brother is similar: if her brother is virtually a stranger, why is it on her to take up some of his burder?

She feels guilty because she is a nice and compassionate person. That’s lovely. But throwing money at the situation isn’t going to make the guilt go away: the guilt is, from the way you’ve described it, survivor’s guilt. There’s no way to save her father from the terrible decisions he has made. Her brother sounds like he’s a bit of a victim here, too, but Letty can’t (in any practical way) save him from that. He should have been working on this himself, decades ago.

We don’t know what their relationship is from the OP. I’d assume it’s not super close, given the circumstances, but that’s not the brother (or her) fault. Its worth some effort to try and maintain that relationship, but she owes the father absolutely nothing, and has zero to be guilty about.