Now THAT’S some good advice! 
I have a wheelbarrow because my dad wanted a “new” one! :dubious: Although my parents are not destined for the poorhouse, my childhood was a constant scramble and a “we can’t afford today because we spent yesterday.” Hence, the story of the Christmas tree.
When my parents married, blue Christmas trees were in. They had nothing - but they had no expenses either, so they went out and bought their Christmas ornaments. Blue lights, blue bulbs, blue garland.
By the next Christmas they had a baby, were buying a house, and the next 25 years were spent moving from need to need on just enough money - from baby expenses, to school expenses, to insuring teenagers, to paying for college. And my mother grew to HATE that damn blue tree.
So now, when my parents want something - with their children out of the house and enough money - they buy it. And none of their children will ever spend a lot of money all at once on Christmas decorations (or anything else) because we might have to live with it for 25 years. So we took on hand me down blue bulbs (and ceremonially all hang one every year) and other hand me down ornaments - and built our ornament collection over time.
(And because I delayed having kids, my ornament collection was pretty nice when the kids were born - and between kids, the need to hang kid’s home made ornaments, and pets - my collection sits in a box - but SOMEDAY…).
In our first 20 years of marriage my husband and I bought two pieces of furniture. A couch, which was a compromise and which we both hated, and a ping-pong table.
This is because he likes new, sleek stuff, and I like antiques. Give me a good old heavy piece of furniture from the past, I don’t care if it has a couple of nicks in it. The Danish chairs all broke within five years but the Windsor rocker has taken all kinds of abuse and just keeps rocking.
Eventually–after 20 tears–he and I came to some other kind of compromise and we are now buying sleek antiques (I guess midcentury modern is antique; I’m pretty sure the Mies chairs are, too).
Now all we have to do is figure out how to buy a cat-proof carpet, and we’ll have a decent looking living room.
My parents give me similar advice and it’s been totally useful. In fact, now that I am finally starting to spend money on my house (I bought it and just sort of lived in it for a while, not having enough money to “do” anything with it) I have to remind MY MOM that it took her 20 years to get a new kitchen and she needs to lay off trying to get me to get mine re-done so soon.
It’s been interesting reading this thread. Some people seem very passionate in their responses, when I found the OP to be rather conversational. Maybe it’s my age.
So Dinsdale - to answer your questions:
I’m 40 and a single female. I went through stages.
In my 20s, there were 2 times when I came in to a substantial amount of money - enough to buy myself some ‘nice’ things. Some of it was high quality, some of it was trendy at the time and is now tacky as all get out. But I wanted stuff that I picked out and paid for - so there you go. I left all that stuff behind in my 30s when I got divorced, and I lived off the cast-offs of strangers and friends for a while. Then I just started renting furnished places because I didn’t have to worry about it.
A few months ago, I moved in to my first empty place in 5 years and found myself furnishing from scratch again. I gladly accepted a table & chair set from my mom, as well as some other furniture. But I didn’t take it all - just the stuff I actually liked that went with my design scheme. Everything else I own was bought off craigslist or by scouring stores for bargains. I enjoy doing that though - finding something for cheap and making it look good. I enjoy the compliments I get from it.
I think everybody has to work out their own mindset about new vs. used. At 25, I was so tired of someone else’s taste - I fought to establish my own - no matter how kitchsy and country it was. In my 30s, I learned to appreciate the philosphy of “less is more” as well as some of the minimalist designs I saw in Art galleries and so forth. Now at 40, I’ve learned to love the old, appreciate the economical, and enjoy the adventure of melding my taste with my budget. Who knows? In my 70s, I’ll probably put a lace doily on everything.
Keep offering her the castoffs. Someday she’ll get tired of the lawn chairs and see the value of the used. But until then - just chuckle and say, “vive le difference!”
No offense. I think you might have lost. You are buying 20 year old stuff that is what he wanted in the first place. He’s more clever than you even realized!
As to the rest of the thread. I don’t really like buying new furniture. It’s so expensive, and you can usually find perfectly good stuff at a thrift store, or something someone you know is getting rid of. Having said that, I don’t understand being disappointed that your daughter is deciding to spend her money in different ways than you would. I mean, I understand it, but I think it is an overreaction. Especially, when you specifically mention that her BF already has his student loans close to being paid off, and is looking to SAVE for a ring, and not foolishly buy it on credit.
I see you as being a concerned parent. Although, putting “independent” in quotes seems unnecessarily dismissive of a young person going out into the world for the first time. And, while I am sure you don’t mean it like this, the way you talk about budgeting for future expenditures does make it seem like you are punishing her for not walking the line you want her to walk. Why not just come up with an amount of money you feel comfortable giving to her for her wedding/new house purchase/baby books (future expense of your choice.) and give it to her regardless. If they have not saved well the amount might be the difference between buying a house or a condo. If they have saved well it might be the difference between a new cell phone with 32 gigs and one with 64. Why make the amount you give have anything to do with the amount they need? Plan an amount that you are going to give them regardless. If they need more, then you can evaluate whether you think it will help them. Or, if they just need to learn how to save better.
I moved out at 24, and I’m an only child.
Reasons I didn’t want my parents’ stuff:
- Them offering me stuff wasn’t about me actually needing the item. It was about them letting go, and making sure I would be ok.
- My parents’ taste is not mine. I like straight lines and solid colors. They do not.
- I wanted my own stuff, not passed-down parent stuff. I wanted something nice and new, not their old scuffed and worn stuff.
- I was moving across half an ocean and it would have been expensive as hell to ship everything.
I was glad for number 4, because it gave me an excuse to pass on a LOT of stuff I didn’t want.
I liked buying furniture and other stuff for my own place. It’s not something I’d do annually, but I had fun. I picked things I liked, and I picked things I felt I needed. It was me setting up my first home out on my own, a rite of passage I would have regretted missing.
Eventually, my parents realized reasons 1-3. They know I’m financially responsible and non-materialistic, so they left me to do what I wanted, which I appreciated.
I still have all the stuff I bought. It’s all still in good condition, and I still like it as much as I did when I bought it.
We started playing house with that perennial Bachelor’s Favorite, the naugahyde sofa/loveseat/armchair, with complimentary pine end tables and a pine coffee table. Lived with that sticky, slippery, uncomfortable stuff for years till we got new overstuffed furniture (which is now the old overstuffed furniture - but comfortable!). You haven’t imagined true horror until you’ve seen cat-clawed naugahyde… I got to shop and pick out the living room furniture all by myself! The salesman was astonished and told me how lucky I was - he had seen near fistfights between married couples trying to buy stuff… Kitchen - indestructible round table, four captains chairs, of unknown wood. Beyond dull, drab, but serves the purpose. Dining room - I inherited my grandmother’s black walnut art deco dining room set - table, 4 chairs with needlepoint seats, a lovely tallish china cabinet, and a ‘lowboy’ - which holds books and videotapes of high points in our family outings. This little set was made in the 30’s and was appraised for $8,000 several years ago - no idea what the value is now, higher or lower, not that it’s going anywhere. … I would have loved to search out bargains, thrift store finds, and refinish interesting chairs, but no, we had to move into the house right NOW with that awful naugahyde, because it was almost new and what else were we going to do with it?..It took several more years until we actually bought a bedroom set at a furniture store, we made do with an odd assortment of used stuff, mostly lots of chests of drawers. It took so long because I literally could not make a choice. We looked and looked and looked and finally I told Mr. S to pick something, anything, I didn’t know. So there.
At first, I thought they were just declining your crap furniture. I kid you not, just a few years ago my parents’ playroom/rec room/bonus room had couches from 1970 where the bottoms had fallen out. As in, the couch’s bottoms had partially fallen out and was replaced by wooden slats beneath the cushions. :eek: Which of course, you could still feel when you sat down. When they got rid of them for big, nice Lay Z boys, they asked me if I wanted them. I not so politely declined.
But $700 on a couch? Seems like they’re putting the cart before the horse. And it seems like 700 would buy a whole lotta ring.... I don't understand couples that delay engagement while spending on other things. Seems that one is always gun shy - I saw it in a couple that lived together for several years sans a promised “future” engagement, much to the chagrin of the lady.
I gotta say it’s a first for me, Dinsdale, but I’d be concerned what the kid’s doing.
ETA: I think you know, but I’m 23.
I disagree that putting off the engagement is necessarily a bad thing. I think it’s wise to live together for a while before you decide to get married.
Dinsdale, you sound like a nice dad, and your daughter is lucky to have you. Regarding the wedding/house money, I agree that you should decide what you want to contribute to that (and I personally don’t feel you’re obligated to contribute to either) and not worry about what else they’re spending their money on.
Some people, myself included, really love to make a space their own. I actually have a lot of used/found/thrift store furniture in my house and I’m very frugal, but it’s all stuff I picked out myself and love. It’s honestly important to me. I don’t have any expensive hobbies, I rarely buy clothes that cost more than $10, and I cut my own hair. But I like my house to look nice. Yes, your old kitchen chairs might be sturdy, but if they’re not my style, I don’t want them in my home. If these things aren’t important to you, maybe you just aren’t going to get that. Maybe try to think about whether you’d want someone’s old golf equipment, stuff that was out of date and not quite the right size for you, since you seem to be a golfer (not the cheapest hobby in the world).
One other thought I had reading this thread is that things have become cheaper in the past 30 years, especially things like TVs. Of course they have nicer things than you had X years ago, things are cheaper now relative to income. My parents spent something like $160 in the 70s on a calculator with less functions than one you can get a the dollar store now. That doesn’t make it extravagant for me to have a half-dozen calcuators in various drawers and boxes around the house. A flat screen TV is no longer a luxury item–I don’t think you can even buy a tube TV anymore. Sure, its nice and looks fancy, but that’s what new TVs are now.
Anyway, I’m sure it’s hard to let your kids go and watch them make choices that aren’t the ones you would have made, but both she and the BF sound sensible and I’m sure they’re going to be just fine.
You GOTTA be pulling my leg! 
One thing I find amusing is that my posts are so consistently viewed so differently - at least by some - than my mindset when posting. I find certain aspects of life - most often family relationships - to be an interesting adventure. Generally when I post something about my family it is mainly because something struck me as unusual, or I reacted to something I have not experienced before, and I’m just curious as to how other people might view the situation, or have reacted in similar situations. And I wonder if people don’t appreciate how jarring some agjectives can be when above all else in your life you put so much effort into simply being a good parent and doing what is best for your kids.
I think it is largely due to shortcomings of the medium, that someone inevitably interprets my posts as tho I am acting in some extreme emotional manner. Sure, some things are rocky, but overall my life is really REALLY good. As I said before, I choose not to bore you all with the countless number of things that go just swimmingly on a daily basis.
Re: their current housing/furniture situation. A couch and a couple of chairs for Ikea is not the end of the world. And I doubt they are going to continue buying all sorts of expensive furnishings for their apartment. But I was just a little surprised because their attitude towards cast-offs is so different than mine and my wife’s were. To me, as a parent, just about any time your kid acts very differently than you think you would have, you wonder what brought that about.
Re: economics - I strongly think (and thought I communicated to my kids) that there is considerable value in being frugal at an early age (of course excepting life-changing opportunities like travel, education, etc.) to better position yourself to be comfortable and flexible later on, the ability to enjoy life without every available consumer “thing”, the benefit of saving until you can buy “quality,” and a whole laundry list of “life lessons” which are a large part of what little knowledge I have to pass on to my kids. Again, it is just so foreign to me to think that a young person starting out wouldn’t prefer a perfectly serviceable free kitchen chair over paying money for something from Ikea. And we WANT to help our kids out, and this is one of the ways we feel we are able to - so it is a little disappointing not to be able to feel we have helped them in this manner. But again, this is not a big deal.
Re: marriage contribution. If you have not been in this position, I suggest you may not appreciate how big of a deal this is. We’ve always told our kids that we are not going to be equal to the penny in what we give them for presents, education, etc., but that we are going to be fair to them (as we see it.) Our current thought is to give each of the kids a certain sum for marriage. In fact, we’ll probably give similar amounts to all 3 kids by the time they reach a certain age - maybe 25 or 30 - whether or not they get married. If they want to spend it all on a wedding, fine (tho I think huge, expensive weddings foolish expenditures for most young people starting out.) If instead they prefer a small ceremony/reception, and want to spend the money on housing, retiring debt, savings, travel, or even $700 couches, that is their choice.
But then, how much to give? I saw that the average US wedding is $20K. No way are we in a position to give all 3 of my kids that much. Nor do we wish to. (And I personally consider the idea of a $20k wedding obscene.) So what do we decide on? $5k? $10K? Any amount will require at least some budgeting (tho no HUGE sacrifice) on our part. And I’m not sure exactly how we are supposed to simply come up with a number we feel is correct. I admit that one tiny consideration among the countless factors contributing to our decision will be the extent to which we feel they have been economically sensible. As I’ve said, a couch and some chairs sure doesn’t amount to going into hock over hookers and blow. But it does suggest somewhat different financial priorities than mine. And I’m not sure how I could - or whether I ought to - ignore that when making future economic decisions.
Always good to have you guys as a sounding board. Thanks again.
FWIW, my parents always said they’d contribute $5K toward a wedding or whatever, and if I eloped they’d give me that amount. I eloped, had an awesome time, and got $5K that went toward buying our first house. Best decision ever. That was about 10 years ago, and I still think that’s a nice, generous amount. I absolutely agree with you that $20K is an obscene amount to spend on a wedding.
The fact that they are a not a mini-you (and I am not saying that angrily) and they perceive and experience the world differently from you. Its a pretty natural process to sort through your parent’s life lessons… and discard some.
Further more, your daughter has come to an age where she may be actively rejecting certain parts of your life philosophy in favor of her own. That is a natural process. If you children reflected all of your values back like a mirror, I would wonder how that came about!
I can understand how it seems arbitrary but it really is the best course to decide on the amount you feel you can give with no expectation to how it is spent and give that. If there is NO sum for which you cannot attach expectations, do not offer anything. If “your money” paying for orange gerbera daisies or a wedding at an amusement park or a destination wedding in the bahamas or any other variant off of “traditional yet thrifty” will chap your hide, just step away from the funding entirely. What you can’t give freely, don’t give at all, JMHO.
The alternative, that you explicitly judge your child and their choices as worthy or unworthy of funding based on how closely they conform to your expectations will be the cause of many tears, even if you are on the objective level quite justified. I recommend you do not go there, not even with the very best of intentions and nothing but total love in your heart. It will not go well.
Weddings bring a lot to the surface, very complicated waters to navigate, really. Its a piece of identity theater, and everyone saying “who they are” at the same time, and as strongly as they can due to the importance of the event, can be quite devastating on relationships.
I’m a 35 year old male, and I never got any of my parent’s hand me down furniture. They moved abroad while I was still in school and didn’t have room for any of the furniture. My wife and I wound up furnishing our place in Ikea and used furniture which we have been getting rid off and replacing with nicer stuff.
I sometimes wish I had been able to get some of my parents furniture since my tastes and their now seem to run similarly, and a lot of their furniture is heavy solid wood which is expensive as hell.
The one area I differed from them and still do is china. My parents gave my wife and I a set of expensive ornate china (service for 8), which I have never used and have offered more. I finally told them that I really don’t need or want it since I don’t have room to store it and will probably never need it.
That’s what I’m saying. Your kids aren’t idiots. If your daughter sees you lavishing your other, more frugal and therefore, (in your eyes) more deserving kids with a lot more money than you give her because she bought an IKEA dining set rather than accept your castoff, it’s only going to make her resent you, maybe worse. If that prospect doesn’t bother you, then by all means go for it.
This is another one of those areas where it’s indisputable that you have the right to do what you want with your money, but the real question of concern is what do you value more: your relationship with your kids or your right to do whatever it is you want with your money. No one can figure that out except you.
Except for appliances and baby cribs, we didn’t have anything new until we were in our 40’s. It was all hand-me-downs from mom, who redecorated every few years. We couldn’t afford to buy new. My first new purchase was a kitchen table, not Ikea but a similar store in Seattle (forgot the name, Pier One, maybe). It’s been 25 years and I still have it, it’s a sewing table now.
If we could have afforded it though, we would have bought new. It’s nice to have things fit your taste, and your space. Some of the stuff we got from mom was fugly. 
We’re in our 40’s, and the answer to the question of when we started buying nice, new things is, “Someday, maybe.” We have only a few new things in the house, too, and between two frugal people who don’t care all that much if the furniture matches and two cats with claws and hairballs, we’re perfectly fine with what we’ve got now. We both prefer older, more solid furniture, too - we’ve bought the odd new desk or tv stand, and they’re practically made of cardboard.
I think your daughter’s preference for brand new for a new apartment is odd, too, but like I said, I’m frugal by nature - I’d take your castoffs and say thank you very much! She obviously is not like me, and nothing wrong with that, as long as they can afford it.
As for paying for weddings and houses for your children, I like what some parents do - agree to pay for one of the large expenses for the wedding (for example the reception hall and dinner), and let the adult children pay for the rest themselves. I think that’s a good compromise of the parents helping out, but the adult children not getting the opportunity to play the spoiled princess who gets whatever she wants and doesn’t have to pay for it - if they’re paying for the rest themselves, maybe they make some better choices. Yeah, I’ve watched a lot of reality wedding tv.
We furnished our first apartment and house with castoffs from family and free roadside pickups. We then spent our 20s developing ourselves and determining our own styles, and when we were 30, did a whole-house remodel and bought new furniture over the next few years. We’re now 35 and love everything we have, even a few of the well-made hand-me-downs that still lurk around the house.
I hear a lot of my parents in you, Dinsdale, and that’s no insult! They were worried too about the decisions I made differently from them. I recommend focussing more on the big picture - not “that’s not how I would spend my money” but “they are happy and they live within their means”. I can pretty much guarantee that all of your kids are going to have different priorities than you, and make choices that boggle your mind! 
Typical reasons to not want your parents stuff -
Got tired of living in a parent’s house full of second hand stuff. Second hand = Yuck!
Don’t want to deal with feelings of obligation for getting parents stuff
Don’t like “old” stuff. A lot of clean freaks are in this category
Control issues. Want to choose exactly what they want. Don’t like things getting pushed onto them. Want compete control of their space.
Don’t like parents taste in furniture.
I just popped in to share something.
Today, I had a 15 minute internal debate with myself over a set of dishes. They were not my mother’s, but rather a set of dishes that she acquired for me from a friend who was moving. I’ve had them for a few years but have not used them because I’ve not needed to. Furthermore, they aren’t my style, they don’t match my color scheme, but they are in nice condition and are a complete setting for 4.
No reason to keep them, right? Yet, as I said, I have been having this internal debate about giving them away because they were a gift from my mom to help me out in my new place. Sometimes the guilt, even the unintentional guilt, far outweighs the gift.
By the way? Yeah, they are so going in the yard sale.