I know!!! Why don’t people just give me the answer I want?
Honestly, though, if I hadn’t asked my question here, I wouldn’t have thought about the power thing.
I do adore M, hes always fun to talk to and I think he’d be a great lover, mostly because he is old enough to know what women like.
He’s kinda scaring me now. I told him that I couldn’t take his money for car repairs, so he offered to send me a new car. :smack:
We haven’t even kissed each other yet. Money and new cars should not be on the table. I know that he wants to help me out, but this is just so strange.
AND, he finally looked through his kitchen and has FIVE stacking colanders. How could I ever deal with that sort of opulance?
I have a really large, really nice colander. But I’m not one to brag–oops, too late!
Well, maybe one thing to say: I know money is a sensitive topic, but maybe don’t let that get in the way of what seems like a really nice, kind fella. You both need time, so take it slow, okay?
In this case, I think money is going to matter a lot. You are in a situation where money is driving the relationship and defining it. The money difference is making too large a difference too early. Its combined with the age thing - and you really don’t sound comfortable being kept - but he sounds VERY comfortable with the idea of keeping you.
There are other situations where it isn’t a big deal. I know a woman who in her 20s married a wealthy man in his 50s. Twenty years later, still married. She’s been happily kept that whole time. He’s been happily married to a hot younger woman. She puts up with a lot from him - he cheats on her, he controls her time, he controls how she dresses - but she is very happy in this situation - she lives in a beautiful house, doesn’t do housework, gets to keep horses - the situation works well for both of them. For me, the relationship would be broken - for them - they are two people who are broken in a complementary fashion.
I think in the same vein as Olives mentioned that you need to have a discussion about the money issue, and just take it right off the table. No $2000 cheques, no offers of new cars - tell him (in a nice way) to just knock that shit off. It would make me confused and uncomfortable, too. It needs to become a non-issue so you can find out if you are compatible just as humans.
Not to get all gender-stereotypey here, but I’m not sure the guys get how loaded with historical baggage this issue is for women.
This is absolutely the wrong time for either of you to start a potentially permanent relationship, as you’ve both just had your hearts broken. But there are other types of relationships.
He’s an older rich man; you’re a pretty young thing. You like each other. And you both want someone to hold. This does not have to lead to marriage to be a good thing, at this time.
Don’t stop working, remember you have to return his gifts when you break up, and suggest he buy the house (at a bargain basement price) and rent it to you.
Thank you so much for you kind wishes. M says he has FIVE colanders, so if we ever go to mixed household, that will be SIX that we own.
M seems to think that women shouldn’t work. His wife did a lot of volunteer work and that was mostly her job. I think that there is no way that I’d let myself be in a situation like your friend was. I’d honestly cry everytime I had to ask for money.
Falls on knees and worships you as the goddess you are. Thank you so much. When he called tonight, I told him that while there were no pomises that sex would happen during his visit, but that keeping his money would mean that sex would NOT happen. Long silence from M, then a sigh and he asked if he could buy me dinner. I said yes and that he could even buy me a bathing suit if all he wanted to do was just hang out by the pool. (I don’t own a bathing suit). I told him that I’d model them and he could pick 3 and that I’d make the final choice. I also told him that just because he bought me clothes, he couldn’t take them off me because he bought them.
M seemed relieved that I was setting limits. This is new to both of us.
Thank you so much!!! More worshiping is happening.
No, I do not. If I did, this thread wouldn’t have happened. I would have opened a bragging thread saying that I’d finally found someone with FIVE colanders and that I’d never have to work another day in my life.
Gifts are gifts. If he thinks he’s going to get the book back, he’s got another think coming. I certainly wouldn’t want his T-shirts back. I’ve never gotten the “gifts must be returned” thing. I did pack up ex fiance’s stuff up and will be hauling his bike to his Mom’s house. Engagement ring is included in the boxes, but the earrings and other things are mine. I certainly do not expect ex to send back the stuff I gave to him. It would just go to St. Vincents.
Large amounts of money and offers of cars are out of the gift catagory for this poor wage slave.
He’s got 5 colanders. I’ll be bringing 1 with me. So if we get married and I leave him I might end up with three. Major upward mobility in my life
M was a very good sport about me asking about them. I told him it was because of a running joke at a BB that I enjoy and he went to search his kitchen. The only reason M didn’t get a link to the thread involved is because I don’t think I want him to know that I have this thread open.
Thinks…maybe I should show him this thread. To help him understand why I shredded his check. M would fit in very well.
Late to the thread and stuff, nth the “take it easy until you find your own feet again”, etc.
I had a bunch of first dates where I knew there wasn’t going to be a second one pretty fast: in most of them, the reason was that his daydream (1) was that when we got married I’d be able to stop working and stay home taking care of the kids. And I’d say “you do realize I’m an engineer, right?” and they’d say “oh but I want to take care of you!” Right… that involves not tossing one of the most important choices of my life out a window! I sweated blood for that diploma, damnit, and I happen to like my job.
I think it’s very important to get M to understand that, as friends or as lovers, if he wants you he has to take all of you: that includes your job. It may not be the bestest job in the world, but it’s still yours; working at it is something where you act, whereas “letting M pamper you” is something passive.
1: later I learned that this was standard seduction talk for (that part of) the US; in some cases I think it also happened to be true. I’m still trying to understand the concept of “lying about life goals in order to get laid”, the seduction dance “back home” is very different.
Read this statement again. Read it as a stranger to the situation. Because you just told me “we are not compatible people - his value system is that women should not work. Mine is that I refuse to be dependent.”
What do you think happens two years from now with this guy. You work and he “who seems to think women shouldn’t work” is perfectly happy with the situation?
At the very least, you and M need to sit down and have a discussion about money, values and your need to both be independent and have a little help in this situation.
Agree with the already mentioned “Money shouldn’t matter, but it does”. If one person - male or female - in a relationship - even a buddy friendship - does all the paying because they make more money than the other part, there will be bad feelings on both sides. So you need to sit down and have an open talk, and figure out your personal way to feel even* with your contributions.
So maybe the rich guy pays all household expenses for you both, but your pay is pocket money for your own clothes and luxury items. Or: he pays when you eat out, you stay sober to drive him home (and save the taxi).
You can see where this can go wrong into the traditional territory of “Man pays the bill, wife does the homework”, which some bad men interpret into “I’ve bought myself a housekeeper, cook, bed-slave and child-nurse in one with my marriage, what else does she want?”
So you need to be careful to find a way of your own without falling into traditional traps.
And yes, all that comes after months of healing and getting to know each other better.
Game theorists and psychologists have studied this. Most people in relationships/ friendships keep an subconscious tally of who does how many favours for the other side. As long as things are roughly even, feelings are good. If one side starts to get the impression “I’m doing all the paying/ favours here, and they don’t give any favours back”, the friendship is in trouble. Favours= coming to babysit, helping with the moving furniture, picking up a child from school…
If, instead of five colanders, he didn’t have a pot to piss in, in what direction would you take your life and your relationship? Use that as a guide, despite his having money.
ISTM that you’re jumping the gun here. As I see it, right now, M is your friend. And friends do help each other out, even monetarily. But you’re already jumping to talking about sex and envisioning him as a lover - you’re both halfway into a relationship already. And that’s not going to do either of you any favors. You’re reeling from a breakup, his foundations have been rocked by his wife’s death. You both need some time to sort yourselves out.
I don’t think that him coming to visit is a bad idea, but I am glad he’s booked a hotel (and I hope he actually uses that room). When he’s here, I’d stress the friendship angle and the taking it really slowly angle, but that’s just me.
Here’s something odd I’ve noticed about your story. You noted about how your ex would send money to help with the mortgage, which is all good and proper. Then you broke up. (I’m sorry about that for you, BTW. Best of luck to you on that front. Eat ice cream and chocolate.) Now you’re understandably concerned about this mortgage and the execrable housing market. Then it seems you jump to “M’s got money” right away. This, when combined with the “he’d be a good lover” talk, almost makes me think that your solution is another man. It rather comes across that you were already a “kept” woman (as you were reliant on the ex) and you’re looking to find that again as soon as possible. I’m probably misunderstanding, but that’s a thought I had reading through the thread.
I’m not one to talk - I’m certainly reliant on my husband’s income (as he’s reliant on mine) to make the house payment. But I’d take some time to think about what you’re looking for before jumping into a new relationship.
Money shouldn’t matter, but the idea that it “shouldn’t matter but does” isn’t really the right approach either. What matters in a relationship is how each person perceives the relationship and whether or not that fits with their expectations and desires for that relationship. Some people will attribute another person constantly paying for things for them as an idea of ownership or superiority, others will perceive it as an act of kindness and providing in an area where they are comfortable. In my view, even large discrepancies in income aren’t necessarily any more of an issue than any other large discrepancies in what one brings, like a intelligence, fame, or some particularly interesting talent (eg, musician). The biggest differences are social pressues and personal comfort levels with these differences.
In this case particularly, it’s obviously at least a minor issue because he has given the OP money and she’s not comfortable with it. But, as others said, there’s much deeper issues here, particularly that both people are probably not in the place to really be pursuing any relationship, muchless one with eachother.
My advice is, first, be sure you’re finished with your grieving as you can’t really pursue a relationship with anyone until you are. After that, then you can address the issues brought up here and the implications as you see them. Several others have brought up potential deal breakers associated with his behaviors and your perceptions. If it is a relationship you want to pursue, you need to think about those implications and deal with them by, at the very least, talking things out with him, or possibly just remaining friends and moving on.
I think your response is mature and reasonably cautious. I, too, would feel very uncomfortable about cashing a check from a friend. For better or worse, it would make me feel beholden to them, and that creates an imbalance in a relationship. I don’t like that.
If things progress, then you can revisit the topic. Because a friend helping me out financially is completely different than a fiance helping me out financially.
When I dated my future husband, he kept offering to buy me a new car because he didn’t believe the one I was driving was safe. (What’s a little rust under the driver’s side car mat??) I refused because I couldn’t afford one, and there was no way I was going to let him pay for a car, because then I’d feel OBLIGATED to continue dating him/sleeping with him. Who wants that?
A month after we engaged, we went (used) car shopping.
Good luck with your new relationship, whether you remain friends or not.
It should matter exactly as much as the parties want it to. Look, no matter what they say, the women who marry Larry King are after money (or maybe a backdoor into show business). That’s fine.
It’s only an issue if one party is about the money and the other party doesn’t get that. I don’t think that’s the case in your situation (but I’ll echo the other posters who say you should take things very slow, given your recent past).
He wouldn’t have sent you the check if he couldn’t afford it. I loan money to my friends all the time. Some pay me back, some don’t. Some have loaned ME money, some haven’t. I say take the check, cash it, fix your transmission, and tell him how thankful you really are, and offer to pay him back. If he says don’t bother, just drop it.
What makes it awkward is when it’s not appreciated.
It doesn’t sound to me like they are on the friendship track right now. Based on flatline’s comments, it sounds like both of them are thinking of this as potentially more. While I would accept money from a friend, it would be harder from a new romantic partner. It can definitely get the relationship off on a bad foot.
So, to start off, I’d like to thank everyone who has replied to this thread. I appreciate your thoughtful replies. You are giving me a lot to think about. I’m going to respond to everyone individually instead of a long post now.
While I tell people that I’m just a box tosser, I happen to have my degree in Library Science. I’m an archivist, the warehouse has 18,000 boxes of public documents with life spans. I love my job and its part of who I am. M does respect this, but has dropped hints that his company could use some like me. M has caught his secretary printing out email to put in the paper files.:smack:
We are both agreed that we won’t make any life decisions for at least a year.
