I’m afraid I have to agree with most of the responses here. If Mom doesn’t want to be a part of “have all the Moms hang out together”, I really can’t fault her for that; frankly to me that sounds like the last thing I would like to do on Mothers Day. (My ideal Mothers Day is to sleep in, a phone call from the kids, and sit on the deck and read all day).
It’s entirely possible that visiting your family at your house just doesn’t sound like a comfortable situation for her, and, again, let me emphasize: that’s perfectly ok and no one should really be looking askance at that attitude as something that’s weird or a deliberate snub.
That doesn’t mean that you guys have to come to her place at her every request. Keep extending the invitations, keep visiting her on occasions when it works out for you.
Your wife really needs to let go of the judging and feeling slighted simply because your mom isn’t like hers when it comes to socializing with the family. I’ve had the advantages of both very-involved families and less-involved families, and they’re both perfectly fine. In the very-involved ones I’ve seen more ugly situations due to the familiarity breeding contempt type of thing. I’ve also seen in these situations (unfortunately from women mostly) irritated and snotty attitudes about the in-laws that don’t dote as much as the other set, and in my experience I usually find such an attitude entirely unwarranted.
And yes, I get it that your mom seems out of whack with her priorities vis-a-vis the musician friends vs. her son, and insisting on gatherings at her house to the exclusion of all other venues. But I don’t think either of these things are really all that egregious, and you (and your wife) should continue to be polite and maintain a decent relationship with her.
Speaking as someone who has been part of musical groups for much of my life, I would have to say I’d pick the music group any day over Mother’s Day with a bunch of mothers. Oh, wait, in fact, I did that this year – ditched the toddler with daddy and went to perform like I always do Sunday mornings. I don’t see why your wife is getting all up in arms about that particular thing. I just don’t take Mother’s Day that seriously, especially when I’m the mother in question. (Now, if my mom had requested my presence on Mother’s Day, that would be different.)
Now, it could be, and the rest of your post seems to imply, that this is part of a pattern of narcissistic and selfish behavior, and that is more what your wife is responding to. And I say the same as the rest of the posters. Visit your mom as much as you visit your in-laws. It’s not fair to cut her out of your kid’s life unless you really are (for example) afraid that she will be a dysfunctional presence in the kid’s life. If your mom is as you say, then the kid will see your mom half as much as your in-laws do, and that will take care of the problem.
I do feel for you – I have a similar situation in which my in-laws are totally and completely awesome and my own mom always has to have things her own way. (Other than that, she’s a good mom, though, and doesn’t have the precise issues yours does.) The Little One probably sees my mom more than my mother-in-law, but already at two I think she prefers my mother-in-law. Your kid will make his or her own decisions about things.
ETA: the funny thing is, it’s my in-laws who are the “hands-off” type, and my family that is so close as to be overwhelming. So sort of opposite of the OP. But yeah, my husband really doesn’t get the culture, although after all these years he understands that this is the way it is…
I appreciate everyone’s opinions on the matter. It definitely gives me perspective. What bothers my wife is that my mom can be extremely manipulative, and she is upset my mom expects me to make accomodations for her but she’s not willing to make the same- everything revolves around what my mom wants on her timetable.
I know that trying to get my mom to change may be an exercise in futility, but I want to at least feel I am trying to do everything on my end. If I never make time to visit her I cant really complain if shes not willing to reciprocate, but if I am putting her ahead of my hobbies and she isnt its a problem.
My in laws are very sweet and even though they are close, they are not drama queens in the slightest- they see each other frequently but get along. Seeing how involved and kind they are to me makes me wish I could have that from my family. Maybe its an unrealistic expectation, but if I dont at least try i’ll never know.
A visit should be like a gift. Freely given, with no strings attached. Your problems arise because you misguidedly believe that your behaviour obligates her, in some way, to reciprocate. It doesn’t.
You visit her, as often as suits you, because of who you are. Period.
And she visits you, or fails to, because of whom she is, not because she’s not holding up some end of your imaginary bargain of reciprocity.
Your attempts to, ‘change’, her, are thinly disguised attempts to control her behaviour towards you. As though she owes you this because you do that. Or she needs to keep up with the inlaws. That’s nonsense.
While you’re engaged in attempting to ‘change’ her, make her feel obligated to ‘measure up’ to the other grand parents, and to ‘reciprocate’ for your actions, you might be wise to consider where you learned your manipulation skills.
You say that your wife feels that your Mom is manipulative (and you seem to agree with her) but who is the one trying to use future grandchildren as pawns here?
Grandchildren are pawns no matter what. No grandparent wants to lose access to their grandkids and most parents know that. So the grandkids wind up being the lubricant in what can be an otherwise contentious relationship between parents and children.
My situation is similar to the OP’s. My in-laws and I get along great, but my mother is extremely manipulative, self-centered, and her ideas of right and wrong are a bit flexible. (It’s why I live here and not there.) After years of schlepping down to Texas in the middle of the summer so we could hang out at their house and watch TV all day, I finally got them to come up here, but I had to be sneaky about it.
It may just be that your future kids will have a closer relationship to your wife’s family as they grow up. That’s what we’ve got and it works for us. The sprog sees my parents a few times a year, Skypes at least once a week, and he calls them on his own volition, so there is a relationship there. It’s just not geographically close. (And I’m OK with that, because part of her moral flexibility is that she has no problems using him to manipulate me and lay guilt trips on me and Airman, and Skype and phone calls are easy to monitor and intervene.)
I wouldn’t even worry about it until you do have kids, then see how it shakes itself out. It may be that you’re assuming behavior on your mother now that she won’t have when she has a grandchild.
Growing up I had my mother’s parents - who were very “grandma and grandpa” - they played with us and took us places and bought us Christmas presents we liked. Grandma always had cookies. There were games. They could be counted on to babysit. And we had my father’s parents - who we visited, dressed up, sat on the sofa, and read books while the grownups talked. Christmas presents were exercises in “I have no idea who my grandchildren are” She told my mother while my mother was in the hospital recovering from my birth “I’ve raised my kids, don’t expect me to babysit.”
Obviously, I have fond memories of one set and - well, I do have some fond memories of the other side, but not nearly as many.
In my own kid’s cases, my mother is over all the time - taking them places, babysitting. She drags them up to her house. My husband’s mother is more into her own things - she isn’t selfish, and she’d like to see more of them, but she sort of missed her window. She finds teenagers far more interesting than babies, but teenagers frankly aren’t that interested in forming relationships with old women.
And there is my husband’s father - whose relationship with the kids is a once or twice a year few hours.
When you have kids, set boundaries on all sides. Your in laws may turn out to be TOO involved (my mother can be and we have to call her back with ‘no, we actually have plans’). Don’t force people into relationships they don’t want - your parents relationship may be one where they give a Christmas gift that shows they don’t know your kids. And…your kids will survive.
While this may be true in your world, I would say it’s not, in the larger world. Certainly not, ‘no matter what’. There are a goodly number of healthy families who do not do such things, refusing to participate in any way, should it rear it’s ugly head.
I agree that “pawns” is a flippant-at-best, obnoxious-at-worst way to put it, but kids ARE dynamics-changers. I think this is what other posters are getting at. It’s up to the adults to make sure that this role is positive, happy and productive and to resist any temptation to make it manipulative or divisive.
My inlaws are local and see the grandkids weekly. My parents live hours away and see the grandkids maybe twice a year. But they see them for a week at a time. They rarely visit us, but they are great hosts and we enjoy the visits.
Perhaps you could see visiting your mom as an annual thing where you get to see her on her own terms and she gets to see her grandkids. Maybe it would be nicer if she was more interesting in you and your family, but I would try not to hold it against her. And to expect her to change at this age is unrealstic. Take her as she is and work around her issues. Anything else is a recipe for unhappiness.
Sorry, if she is in a band and they are performing, she really can’t ditch them. However, she could offer up alternative dates for you (this is what I do when I am previously committed).
There also could be some family politics going on that she is trying to shield you and your wife from.
Dealing with in-laws and holidays is always difficult. The way we work it is that we invite the people we would like to celebrate with and if they don’t come, not my problem. If they invite me, I will make an effort to be there but I will not cancel prior plans.
Why not have your mom come to your place ‘just because’ on the weekend after mother’s day? If the drive isn’t that far and she still doesn’t want to come (even after suggesting a few dates) then she probably has a problem with your wife and it is her problem so she just won’t get to see you.
Remember, the only person’s behaviour that you can control is your own. You can’t make your mother get along with your wife or vice versa. All you can do is try to make it easier for both of them (but your wife comes first, of course).
This is such good advice I wanted to point it out again.
Were you numb to it, or did it just not bother you? One thing that kind of strikes me is that this is bothering you a lot more now that your wife is pointing it out to you and telling you how much it bothers you. In all fairness, your mom doesn’t sound like she’s the most dedicated mom in the world, but she doesn’t sound terrible, either. The response to someone who wants a relationship on their terms is to set your own boundaries with them - that way no one feels like they’re getting taken advantage of.
Not “may be” - “will be.” I understand how sad it can be to see how much better a parent could have been, but she is who she is - you can take her as she is and do what you can to set your own boundaries with her, or you can agonize over why she isn’t different - guess which one will make you happier in the long run.
Good points. Right now I am trying to compromise with my mom. I know that music is a big commitment but all I really ask is that she be flexible some of the time. My parents divorced when I was young, and holidays were split between families/parents. My dad’s family loved having me over, but understood that I was spending half my holidays with my mom. My mom, in contrast, didnt think it was fair I spent half my time with my dad’s family. One year I screwed up and accidentally went to my dad"s family two Thanksgivings in a row, and my mom raised hell about it. She wanted me to be a part of her Thanksgiving all the time. But now that we are hosting and want her to come to us, she’s not willing to change her routine, even though i’ve spent my adulthood compromising with others, and sacrificing my own wants to put other people first. I dont feel its unreasonable that i’d like my mom to do the same 1% of the time.
You can’t change people. Maybe not. But people will definitely not change if they are unaware or in denial about how their behavior affects people. My dad’s family had frequent get togethers, but much of the time I’d never know. I’d call and ask, but often I was still the last to find out. When I would come over, they would make remarks about how I never seemed to visit anymore So I had a talk with my dad’s family and told them I always feel out of the loop, and I’m seldom part of the discussion so often dont even know anything is going on. What did they do? They compromised, called/texted/emailed more often, and I reciprocated. When making it to xmas stsrted becoming more difficult I proposed the possibility of simply getting together the weekend before. My other married cousins were in agreement; last xmas was awesome because my ENTIRE extended family was finally able to make it since nobody had any conflicts. It was win-win and I was praised for my suggestion.
It may be true my mom may decide to change on her own once I have kids, or she’ll continue to put her music ahead of her family. Either way I want my future kids to have a healthy and positive relationship with her, and I want to do everything on my end to try to get her to see where i’m coming from.
When my kids were little, my wife’s family was 50 miles away and mine was across the country. So we were a lot more involved with my in-laws, and it worked out fine.
I assume that neither set is far away.
I think the problem will work itself out. First, your parents may get a lot more interested in grandchildren. Second, a lot of adults feel kids should visit them. When you have kids, and it becomes a big pain, this might change.
If it doesn’t, visit them when it is convenient, and let them know they are always welcome to visit you. I certainly see no reason to keep your kid away just for the sin of them not being as interested as your wife would like. And thank your lucky stars that both families don’t want to be involved all the time and fight about who gets to see the kid more.
To be honest, that was my reaction too. If the kids should be kept away from anyone, I think it should be the side of the family that is enabling a child molester. God help your kids if Grandma decides it’s cool if the molester wants to spend hours locked in a room with your kids too.
This part is funny, because it’s not that she doesn’t see where you’re coming from, it’s that you don’t see where’s she’s coming from. The harder you push, it seems to me, the less likely she is to respond as you wish. She will not desire it as long as you are trying to force it upon her, I predict.
Sooner or later, we all have to learn, you cannot push a rope! Good Luck to you!
This is going to be one of those Tough Love posts, because you really do sound like you are respectfully and thoughtfully listening to the people who have posted advice … but your most recent post makes me think you are maybe not truly understanding the situation.
What are you describing is not exactly a compromise, at the very least not a compromise that relates to your situation with your mother. You and your cousins both wanted the same thing – to see each other more. What you collectively needed to do (and congrats for taking initiative and making a good suggestion!) was figure out better logistics for making that happen.
With your mom, it is possible that hitting upon better logistics could help – who knows, maybe she is secretly nervous about driving alone, and would be more willing to visit your house if you came and picked her up and then drove her home. Sure, it would be less convenient for you in terms of time and travel, but it would satisfy what you are saying you want – for your mom to spend time in your home. That’s just an example, by the way. From what you have said, it seems much more likely is that there is a fundamental difference in what you want – you want your mom to be more like your in-laws, and she is not.
I agree with you that other people won’t know if there is a problem unless you tell them – openly, candidly, respectfully. I really do hope for you that you can communicate your preferences to your mother in a way that makes her think about finding ways to strengthen your relationship. But like several people have said, you are always going to have the best results changing yourself and your expectations.
And Incubus I just want to extend a note of sympathy. The process of realizing that you can’t make other people who you want them to be – or even who you need them to be – or even to pretend like they give a shit about you by basic, “average” social standards – is a painful one. It’s freeing in the end but it’s a long, sad road.
As I said to my dear friend who also has similar sorts of parent problems it’s not that I expect they’ll ever change.
It’s just that when I think I can’t be any more disappointed in them, I’m wrong.
Just think: at least your mother hasn’t tried to drunkenly assault your wife. Silver linings.
