Reading the thread asking about converting to Judaism made me wonder how does one prove their religion?
Nobody ever taught me the secret hand shake 
Whoops, Law of Return
But I suspect you guys know what I mean.
same way a forum member proves they are real and not a perl script with preprogrammed responses to forum messages.
Hmmm… has any Doper ever done that?
I didn’t have to prove my Judaism for the Law of Return - just marriage in Israel - but same problem.
If you were born of a Jewish mother and can produce your mothers’ original Ketuba (marriage agreement) - preferably signed by an Orthodox rabbi - then you should be home free.
If you have converted - the conversion record given by the Beit Din that OK’ed the conversion.
If none of the above, it gets tricky… I suppose a Ketuba for your maternal grandmother along with proof of lineage might do the trick, but were getting into wiggle-room country here…
Again - any proof of Judaism signed by an Orthodox rabbi has far better chances of going unchallenged, but Conservative and Reform conversion/marriage records may cut the mustard at least in some cases. And for citizenship (but not for marriage!) - this is a Law of the State - if you don’t like the decision made by the Ministry of Interior you can take it to court. Israel has a High Court of Justice (Bagatz, to those who know what I’m talking about), specifically geared to afford final succor to anyone who feels that they have been “wronged” by the establishment.
Dani
nope, thats the point. I just have to take your word that your a person and not a script. Same with religion except fakin religion is alot more plausable. Politicians fake it get votes, for exmaple. About the most you can do is watch what someone does, and infer if they are a lier.
as a side note I used infer. that makes me smarter and inflates my ego. this makes me happy.
dang typos. this makes me feel dumber and lets all the air out of my ego.
fakin should be faking
exmaple should be example
that makes me smarter should be that makes me feel smarter.
Has anyone applied for citizenship under the Law of Return and been denied? If so, what were the circumstances?
According to what No one Special said, virtually no one could prove they are Jewish. Why is my mother’s Kesuvah better than mine? Orthodox rabbi, hah. Probably no more than 25% of Jews in my generation grew up in Orthodox households. Did my mother even have a Kesuvah? I don’t know, but I certainly never saw it and it is long gone. Same for my grandmother. But all this kind of evidence does is push it back one generation. And what about all those Russian immigrants? In the end, I suspect they just have to take your word for it.
About 30 years ago, an Israeli tried to convince me to emigrate (it was never a possibility) and I raised that very question. He just waved his hands and said no on would ever question it.
Maybe if there were a question raised, this sort of legalistic evidence would come into play, but if no one does, I think they just have to believe you.
Incidentally, what about illegitimate children? If Kesuvahs are what are needed as proof, they are left out in the cold.
The reason that a ketubah would help, is to show that your mother had a religious wedding, therefore she is Jewish.
Illegitimate, as far as if your mother was married or not is not the issue. The fact that your MOTHER had you proves that you are indeed Jewish (which is why it always follows the mother’s side).
I believe you can also show proof of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah.
Hari - I think you got me wrong. It isn’t that the type of proof I suggested is required, and otherwise your up a creek. Rather the other way. Generally, I would say the authorities tend to be quite lenient in terms of “what constitutes proof” - having any of the records I suggested would certainly clinch it, though not having any doesn’t mean you can’t “prove” your Jewishness in other means.
A letter from a rabbi who knows you, who knew your mother; Your sister’s Ketubah; your brother’s Bar Mizvah record; (for Russians) evidence that you/your mother/etc… were recorded as “Jewish” on their ID’s; ANY kind of (maternal) family relationship to a Recognized Jew, especially one who is living in Israel; you get the idea…
There is no “standard” of proof. It depends, among other things, on who happens to be holding the Ministry of Interior. Currently held by Shinui (for a very welcome change! :)), so probably more lenient than ever (though I wouldn’t know, I simply haven’t had friends or relations who had to go through this lately).
Dani
Hari Seldon:
It’s not; if you have a Kesuvah of your own, it’s just as good proof. But only the females hold the Kesuvah, so males would need their mothers’ in any case.
Maybe, but there’s no question that Orthodox certifications of adherence to Torah law would be accepted by people of all denominations, while the reverse is not true.
This is an extremely controversial topic in Israel. There have been suggestions that a significant percentage of the Russian immigrants are not Jewish according to Jewish law, but at the moment, sympathy for immigrating Russians is causing a lack of political will to address the issue head-on.
Well, the Kesuvah isn’t needed to prove you were born within the marriage…if the mother got married at any time, to anyone, she should still be able to produce a the document, which will thereby vouch for her children’s Jewishness.
But I’m sure alternate forms of evidence are allowed. The Kesuvah is probably only the most common way to go.
Thanks for the great replies!