I call BS on irony.
I refuse to be put in the position of having to defend my distaste of swinging. I do not see how having sex with others could strengthen our enjoyment or our trust. Sorry, I won’t play.
And actually, his desire to swing is a large part of our problems. Sort of along the lines of “if you would only do this, then sex’ed be so great…” It’s coercion (emotional) and not so subtle. First it was porn, and I managed to open my mind about some of that (I still will not on a whim, watch porn-I keep asking myself why watch when I can do?). Now, it’s this and the line is drawn. brownie55 -stick to my guns? I have heavy artillery, if needed!
I find it ironic that there are guys referred to here that can’t handle their wives getting it on with someone else (double standard, much?) But my husband WANTS me to give it up to another guy. This is offensive to me on any number of levels, but mostly because I feel like chattel. Sorry, hard to keep a cool tone when this is horrible for me.
Sex is not “recreation” to me–it can be silly and fun, but I don’t consider it a hobby. I am fully present (most times)-I mean emotionally, physically and spiritually-when I have sex. I don’t want any other kind. I am not judging those who do-I am confounded, but live and let live. Just don’t ask me to join in.
As to the marriage counselling–we’ve been. Twice. The last time(2002), he went for 4 sessions and quit. I went for 2 more years. We got married in 1987.
The handwriting is on the wall for us; I just lack the emotional strength and courage to actually do the deed at this point. We did have a re-approchement (can’t find the word, but mean that we did have a hiatus from conflict this spring, and then he brings this new"toy" up–apparently, he has never been satisfied fully[despite my asking and experimenting]–and swinging would do the trick). Somehow, I doubt that very much, and will not chance further damage to ME, let alone our very fragile marriage.
I apologize to the OP-you wanted a lighthearted thread on an interesting sideroad of couple-dom.
Is it really? I find it really sad that a marriage could be broken because of one somewhat pointless obsession. It’s amazing how people can get something in their heads (which for sake of argument could be nice, but probably not that amazing) that becomes so important that it overshadows everything else. Sex is odd that way. People start to fantasize, and suddenly a relatively minor thing such as “swinging,” or “she won’t do X position,” becomes some type of all important relationship killer.
I understand (though do not like) it when marriages breakup over money problems, children, or even willingness to have sex in general, but when they break up over wierd little subtopic obsessions it just doesn’t make sense. To me, the equivalent of this would not be breaking up because you disagree with someone on how to raise children, but instead because you really want your kid to play T-Ball and she wants him to play soccer.
Sorry to hear about your situation. You don’t need to defend your choice, and it’s wrong of your husband to keep pressuring you after you’ve made your preference clear. Swinging needs to be a mutual decision that both partners are confortable with. It honestly sounds to me like you and your husband simply want different things from the marriage, and you may be better off with a divorce so both of you can go and find someone you’ll be happier with.
Slyfrog --it’s more of the straw that broke the camel’s back. If you already have money issues(he tried to do a start up dot.com and put us $200,000 in debt-but that’s another thread), parenting issues, parental (as in Inlaws) issues etc–something like this can be a deal breaker.
I am not intending to highjack this informative thread. I will say this: I have made mistakes in this marriage and I am far from perfect; IOW, it is not all his fault. If I feel the need to post more, I might later.
Since I started the thread, let me add this: If sounds like divorce is in the cards. Were you to consent to your husband, you can bet he will use your swinging against you in a very nasty way. When marriages are headed toward Splitsville, the last thing you want to do is give him ammunition that might impeach your character. When things get really nasty, it’s possible he would use your behavior to blackmail/intimidate/coerce you. Stick to your guns.
O.K. folks, any more confessions/insights/commentary? Does anything think this phenomenon is uptrending and will be more popular with younger generations, as mores/cultural norms become more permissive?
That’s kinda interesting. I read an article he wrote about the “Adam Walsh” case, and one of the suspects that early in the investigation was apparently his wife. She had been having an affair (so his article said) with another man. Kinda makes you wonder if they were swingers why she would need to “cheat.”
I’ve been good friends with a couple for about 6 years. Almost a year after knowing them they asked me if I’d be interested in a 3some. I was 17, sexually inexperienced and intimidated by the idea - so I declined. + They had a year old son and I didn’t want to be involved in any drama. It’s been 5 years since then. I’ll call them Zach and Nina.
Zach and Nina have 3 kids now. The two that can talk call me uncle and I am quite involved in their lives. I love those kids and my friends.
I’ve been with my girlfriend for 3 years (living together for 2). She’s always been attracted to girls and has had previous girlfriends. I’ll call her Ashley. We are very much in love. We lived with the other couple for about 5 months but nothing was ever mentioned about sex between all of us.
Last Halloween we all got together, played cards, and got very drunk. The girls started kissing and neither Zach nor I were against it. It didn’t go any further with the girls. Zach and Nina went to their room and Ashley and I had sex in their living room. This has happened 3 more times since then. The kissing got heavier and there was alot of neck biting but nothing futher.
Well, last Friday we got together, played fruit ninja, drank and danced 'til 5am. The girls were kissing off and on all night. Zach and Nina went to their room. Ashley and I had sex in the living room. Then, Nina comes out with only a t-shirt on and literally pushes us into their room. Zach and I gave our own girls head side-by-side. Nina was all over Ashley the whole time. Nina was obviously the most drunk. They had about 10 minutes more sex while Ashley and I cuddled and watched. I went to piss and came back. Zach was gone to another room. Ashley and Nina cuddled up on me for about 10 minutes. Zach came back and cuddled up next to Nina. Nobody seemed to have any problem with this cuddling. I learned the next day that Nina was trying to move Ashley and Zach’s hands to each other’s bodies and Zach actually fingered Ashley for a split second before she moved away and shook her head no at him without me knowing. We left that morning around 9.
We talked about it off and on the next day. It became clear that Ashley is attracted to both of them and I am attracted to Nina. We’ve agreed that we wouldn’t be hurt by seeing each other with another person so long as nothing emotional develops. We haven’t talked to them about it, though, and we’re not really sure if Zach is attracted to Ashley. I plan on talking with him about it tommorow. If we do agree to do it, we’re going to take it slow. No penetration the first time, basically. None of us have ever done this, so we’re worried that it might cause unpredictable emotional responses.
Just thought I’d add this little bit of personal experience to the conversation. Any advice on how we should go about this might be appreciated.
By the way, Ashley and I are in our early 20s. Zach and Nina are in their late 20s.
RedNo40 if I read your timeline right, you became acquainted with Zach and Nina in about 2007. That would be two freakin’ years after this thread had seen its last post.
Don’t know if this counts, but once when I was single in my 20s, I was at the house of this guy I worked with watching a football game. His wife was there and he said “dude you can bang my wife, if can watch”
I said, “no, that’s okay, I’m good,” and then we went back to watching the game until I could make an excuse to go home.
Something similar happened to me. I’ve been told the idea behind having the spouse tell you is so you know up front it’s okay by them, so the wife tells the girls and the husband tells the guys. Thing is, you don’t know what he’s telling the wife when you say no. I passed on a buddy’s offer and moved on, but his wife hated my freaking guts after that. I don’t know what he told her (I simply said that wasn’t my scene), but it wound up killing the friendship. Ironic, because my liking her is probably what prompted the offer - she was smart, funny, and gorgeous. I just see married people as off-limits, even if they don’t.
I figured I’d answer before even reading the thread- just so my answer is uncolored by the other responses.
A few years ago, I found out that some friends (a married couple, naturally) are swingers. I went to a local house party with a few hundred people and was amazed by the size of the party and how regularly they have these parties-- all in my little podunk ass town. And that’s not an exaggeration-- this was their monthly house party and there were literally over 300 people there. I also spend a good deal of time in Las Vegas, which is a place with all kinds of swinger clubs and swinger friendly establishments. Several hotels there are VERY welcoming of swingers (the Artisan has a topless swinger Sunday thing at their pool-- or they did and Rumor is notorious for swinger activities).
The one odd thing is that once I was made aware of the swinger world, it’s now everywhere. Swingers use certain vocab that sticks out pretty ridiculously in regular conversation once you’re made aware of it. Hell, I’ve gone on more than a handful of non swinger men, only to later find out that they and an ex would regularly go to the Green Door in Vegas or something.
My conclusion is that there are a lot more swingers than I ever thought. They are a group that is REALLY good at being tight lipped about the activities of other swingers, so you’d literally never know until you saw it yourself. There are definitely a lot of people that you’d never expect who do it.
Glad to see I got people talking about this some more.
I imagine there are quite a few swingers out there. Everytime I’ve heard anyone mention it, it’s always just like “We’re swingers.” followed by a giggle and a questioning look. Which has been twice now. I guess people aren’t as discrete about it where I’m from.
Actually there was a gypsy couple at a party once. The guy walked up to Ashley and me and said “There’s some amazing energy coming off of you two. I wanna be a part of it.” Then the girl says, “We could, ya know…” and pointed at a bedroom door. That was akward. We declined.
This isn’t quite ‘everyday’ conversation, but here’s a hysterically accurate video: shit swingers say.
There are a lot of swingers out there (though I can’t say what percentage of the overall population). Old swingers, young swingers, middle-aged swingers. Hot, model-like swingers and swingers you’d rather not. And it’s not private hush-hush, it’s right there in front of you (and behind, under, etc.). Of course, when we have or attend a house party it’s because we’ve been personally invited, but that doesn’t mean finding a place or time to meet another couple is difficult in the slightest. I think it’s okay to mention a particular site on this board (someone did above), but if not please remove it. Anyway, go to swinglifestyle. Take a look at their club listings for your state and see how many there are. You can even see how far they are from your zip code. Most are in cities, but you’d be surprised how many are in the burbs. Now search your zip code and see just how many couples are looking for dates (which just like regular dating is as varied as your imagination). When we’ve traveled for fun or business and felt like meeting someone, we’ve never had a problem finding a couple in the neighborhood. And that’s just one site of many, many many.
Within the community there are a small number of people in eleanorigby’s position. Most swingers will pick up on the vibe that there is either an unequal interest (it’s not always the man) or incomplete communication between partners and most swingers will quietly and politely move on. There really are that many other interested, interesting, and secure couples out there that it’s not worth the drama.
