In the comic Old Man Logan the villains team up to defeat all the heroes and divide the US between Red Skull, Abomination, Magneto and Dr. Doom.
Other than the central goal of defeating the heroes how would the actual task of conquering the country, subduing the authorities (government, police, military, SHIELD etc) and then restoring things to something like normalcy plausibly work given the combined abilities and resources of the villain community (Marvel or DC)?
Wholesale murder. Anyone who resists even a little gets vaporized.
I asked ChatGPT:
Conquering an entire country and subduing its authorities would be an immense task, even for a coalition of powerful villains. However, let’s explore some plausible strategies that the combined abilities and resources of the villain community could employ to achieve this goal and restore some form of order:
Establishing a power base: The first step would be for the villains to establish a stronghold from which they can launch their operations. This could be a fortified location, such as a secret base or a captured government facility, where they consolidate their forces and resources.
Divide and conquer: The villains would need to exploit existing divisions within the authorities, such as political rivalries, internal conflicts, or corruption, to weaken their opposition. By sowing discord and exploiting weaknesses, they can further destabilize the existing power structures.
Neutralizing superheroes: The combined forces of Red Skull, Abomination, Magneto, and Dr. Doom would have to systematically neutralize the remaining heroes. This could involve targeted assassinations, capturing or imprisoning them, or blackmailing them into submission. By eliminating the heroes’ presence, they reduce resistance and control public opinion.
Psychological warfare: The villains could employ psychological tactics to demoralize the authorities and the general population. This could involve instilling fear through acts of terror, propaganda campaigns, or leveraging mind control abilities of certain villains to manipulate influential figures.
Co-opting existing resources: The villains would need to exploit the existing infrastructure, technology, and resources of the country they aim to conquer. By gaining control over key facilities, communication networks, and transportation systems, they can disrupt the authorities’ ability to mount an effective resistance.
Strategic alliances: The villains could potentially form alliances with other criminal organizations or international enemies of the targeted country. These alliances would provide additional resources, manpower, and strategic support to further their conquest.
Suppressing resistance: Once the initial stages of conquest are complete, the villains would need to suppress any remaining resistance from the authorities, military, police, or rebel factions. This could involve imposing martial law, establishing a widespread surveillance system, and utilizing their powers and armies to maintain control.
Establishing puppet governments: To restore a semblance of normalcy, the villains could install puppet governments or co-opt existing political figures. This would allow them to maintain the appearance of order while ensuring their continued control over the country’s affairs.
Propaganda and indoctrination: The villains would employ extensive propaganda and indoctrination efforts to shape public opinion and suppress dissent. Through media control, educational system manipulation, and selective dissemination of information, they can control the narrative and maintain their grip on power.
Balancing internal power dynamics: With such powerful and ambitious villains working together, internal power struggles would inevitably arise. To ensure stability, they would need to establish mechanisms for power-sharing or delineate spheres of influence to prevent infighting from destabilizing their rule.
It’s important to note that the plausibility of these strategies would depend on the specific abilities, resources, and motivations of the villains involved, as well as the existing strengths and weaknesses of the targeted country. Additionally, the heroes and authorities would also employ their own strategies and countermeasures, which would further shape the course of events.
If there are comic book physics, then there are comic book politics.
Spoilers for the Razorline universe-Paragon John did it by killing the heroes and then convincing everybody that the heroes never existed. Everybody knows he’s wealthy and a tech mogul. Nobody knows he secretly rules the world.
Back in 1987, Marvel published a graphic novel entitled Emperor Doom; in it, Doctor Doom pulls off taking over the world, by capturing the villain Purple Man, and building a special prism which amplifies the Purple Man’s psychic control powers, using it to mentally control and enslave the world’s population.
It actually works, for the most part; world peace is achieved: nuclear weapons are banned, crime is ended, nuclear weapons are banned, South African apartheid (a big real-world issue at that time) is ended, etc. People are “happy,” even if most don’t realize that they’ve been mentally enslaved, and thus, no longer truly have free will.
But, a few superheroes are immune to the effect, or are able to eventually resist it, and they wind up overthrowing Doom.
Doom also took over the world (more or less) in the 2099 universe. He used a large number of shock troops, precision cyber attacks, and generally being nicer than the dystopian mega corporations that were running things at the time.
Realistically you’d probably need to have either an actual or near-apocalypse and then in the aftermath have the villains basically tell people they can bring order back from the chaos.
Problem is, I don’t REALLY see how Magneto or Dr Doom would be too appealing since they have pet causes they’d want to elevate over “regular” people. Red Skull I can see doing divide and conquer. Magneto would have to use Mutants as enforcers for his rule but that would cause A LOT of strife in the long run. Dr Doom if he simply gave up his past and just became a generic ruler could work but I don’t see that happening. And Abomination I know little about.
And, presumably, restoring war, nuclear weapons, crime, and apartheid?
Is there any reason one or more of the villains couldn’t just stand for office?
Aren’t they all literally foreign born?
Presumably yes. As the link to the Marvel Wiki for the graphic novel, which I shared upthread, states:
Yes (as far as the U.S. is concerned). Both Magneto and Red Skull were born in Germany; Doctor Doom was born in the fictional Eastern European country of Latveria, and the Abomination was born in Yugoslavia. That’d only prevent them from running for president or vice-president.
I’m not too worried about superhero villains taking over the world, but it looks like ChatGPT had put a lot of thought into its answer, like it’s something it’s been contemplating for a while.
Yeah, that was a little longer and more detailed than I expected.
Well, just watch a big chunk of the Star Wars Saga, starting at the end of the Clone Wars. The Bad Batch, Rebels, Obi-wan, and some of Andor pretty much sums up how the Emperor and Darth Vader did it. Defeat the main opposition militarily, establish yourself with “temporary” emergency powers, create new military units that are personally loyal, co-opt the mechanisms of civilian control, and gradually replace the old employees with new ones loyal to the New Order. Oh, and be willing to massacre a whole lot of people on occasion, so everyone else gets the message to just hunker down and survive.
The Red Skull plays to white nationalism.
Dr. Doom starts emphasizing his Rom heritage, and appealing to P.O.C. militants.
In comic-world, mutants might be numerous enough to be a voting bloc that Magneto could court.
I haven’t read comics recently, but historically, the Abomination’s intellectual prowess was “not as dumb as the Hulk”. I’m not sure where he would seek political power.
“Vote Abomination: he’s not as dumb as Hulk” would make an excellent campaign slogan these days.
I can’t reconcile Magneto and Red Skull working together. Perhaps we should ask ChatGPT to rationalise that.
As interesting as villain conflicts would be from a story perspective I think the simple answer as to why the major villains didn’t try and kill each other in the Old Man Logan setting soon after the heroes were gone is that they either didn’t have the resources or the respective sides were all sufficiently powerful that they were forced into an uneasy peace or risk being destroyed themselves in the conflict. None of them are so powerful or intelligent that they couldn’t be defeated through esoteric means or sufficient firepower especially if they were fighting multiple sides at once.
