For the record, this is a hypothetical. There’s no particular urgency, I just got to thinking;
Things to me look bleak, unfortunately. Not just in any specific place, but around the whole world. I was wondering how I would talk someone down who might not be in a great place, if the if I had to. I’m someone with a lot of privilege, so if I’m pessimistic about the future, I don’t know what I’d say to someone in a more desperate situation. Obviously there have been worse times in history than now, in a number of ways. I just don’t think we’ve seen the worst of it.
So, how would one convince another to hold on when they are, or have been, suffering, and you’re not optimistic about your own future? Yes, the tide could always turn, but… how likely is that, really?
I’m far from suicidal at this point, but I’m pretty terrified. I’m sure their are answers that might help me in some capacity, along with other people who are scared. Thanks!
I think I’d concentrate on getting them to some real medical care.
I don’t believe “talking someone down” is doable in the long run. Depressed, suicidal people are notorious for falling back into their dark place pretty quickly.
I guess that wouldn’t scratch my itch for getting the type of advice that one might give someone who’s, let’s say, not expressed suicidal thoughts, but feels hopeless.
I guess I’d try to give them examples of near future good things they’re likely to experience.
I have my hopeless moments. Not much anyone can say to change it. It just is.
I can be cheered up for short periods.
But, alone, in the dark of night the feelings creep back in.
I mostly just wait them out.
First, don’t use the “In Times Like This”. Times are no less or no more bad than they have been before. The person may see things as horrible, but there’s always a corresponding person that’s just enjoying every second - some teenager out there got to hold hands with their crush for the first time today, and they are over the moon :).
You’d then remind them of the good things in life that matter to them. It could be cake. It could be the next volume of a book coming out. It could be a new TV show or movie they’ve been waiting for. It could be living for a hug from their little niece or nephew. It could be grandma’s meatloaf. There’s always good things to live for or look forward to.
You can also remind them of times they felt like this before, and they got out of it.
Or heck - tell them you’ll take them out to dessert tomorrow. Tell them you’d miss their company if they weren’t here. Tell them what they need to hear, just to keep them around, even if it means stretching the truth a little.
And cake. Cake is always a good thing to look forward to.
“Of all existing things, some are in our power, and others are not in our power. In our power are thought, impulse, will to get and will to avoid, and, in a word, everything which is our own doing. Things not in our power include the body, property, reputation, office, and, in a word, everything which is not our own doing. Things in our power are by nature free, unhindered, untrammelled; things not in our power are weak, servile, subject to hindrance, dependent on others. Remember then that if you imagine that what is naturally slavish is free, and what is naturally another’s is your own, you will be hampered, you will mourn, you will be put to confusion, you will blame gods and men; but if you think that only your own belongs to you, and that what is another’s is indeed another’s, no one will ever put compulsion or hindrance on you, you will blame none, you will accuse none, you will do nothing against your will, no one will harm you…”
While I agree about the living in the moment part, I don’t think that’s quite right on either depression or anxiety. With both (assuming there’s no structural/chemical problems) there’s an element of misperception about either the past or future, and it usually takes the form of imagining things to be worse than they really are, or the consequences as worse than they really are, etc… That’s the more salient point, rather than whether they’re backward facing/forward facing.
I’ve actually seen a therapist about work anxiety in the past, and one of the most effective things was to consider what the actual consequences would be for whatever I was anxious about. In nearly every case, the consequences were relatively minor and weren’t going to be anything that would even show up on my annual review, much less get me fired. Same thing about being depressed; much of my problem was more beating myself up about stuff that nobody else remembered, or things that people remembered, but had given me the benefit of the doubt about. Or, in a CBT style exercise it was kind of shocking to reframe parts of my inner monologue as “I wish I’d ” rather than “I should have ”- in the latter, you’ve already failed to achieve in your own mind, while in the former, you’re just stating that it would have been nice, but didn’t happen. It really changes your outlook on the past when you just change the words you think with.
As far as someone with suicidal thoughts, the #1, primo, ultimate suggestion is to encourage them strongly to seek professional mental health help. Anything you say is more likely to sound like trite platitudes to them, rather than helpful advice.
The quote I use is from a Golden Gate bridge jumper who said that, in mid-air, he suddenly realized that “everything I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped.”
Yeah. I’ve been depressed and suicidal before, and I could detail all the ways I got out of it myself, but that might not be particularly useful or welcome from another person who is in the middle of it. We can’t talk people out of depression the way we would like to. What a mental health professional can do is teach them skills to manage it, and even teach skills to prevent it from happening again, but that is a lot of work and when someone is acutely suicidal, what they need is crisis intervention, not pep talks about the future.
If we’re shifting the conversation to general feelings of depression and despair, that’s also a therapist’s job… But if someone came to me and said, I feel hopeless about the world, I really need your best evidence-based advice, I would say all evidence points to rumination being a key factor in perpetuating depression and anxiety, so if you want to feel better, you have to learn to stop ruminating (which can also be taught by a mental health professional, but I figured out how to do it just from listening to this podcast episode.) There’s no way to snap out of it, as I’m sure we all know, but there are ways to build mental resilience little by little over time in a way that eventually results in a mentally healthy person. I know because I am that person.
I have reasons I can’t plan ahead.
Memories may be all I ever get.
I don’t like someone telling me “all you got is this moment in time”. That very moment maybe hell in my experience. Lost in a memory or the hope tomorrow may be better seems to work for me.
Don’t fall prey to the “Tommy” Syndrome (from the rock opera Tommy), where a certain sequence of events and/or actions appear to be the solution to your mental state, and you make the mistake of thinking that this series of events and/or actions would therefor be the best solution to the problems of others.
One other thing that comes to mind is how South Korean efforts to discourage suicide by putting photos of happy children, couples, etc. on a bridge actually backfired and increased the jumping, because those photos were reminding suicidal people of the things they didn’t have.
Well, there are some situations where a sequence of events could actually help your mental state.
Make plan, carry it thru and come out better in the end. Maybe not perfection, but better off.
This is why we educate or train ourselves for certain careers. This is why we save money. This is why we spend time to bring up children in a way they can become competent self-reliant adults. And about a million other things.
But, you’re right, junior high dreaming if I only had those jeans/shoes/phone I’d be the cool kid. Get the best boy/girlfriend, and be popular, is not the way to think.
The people who are the saddest are those stuck in a rut, addictions, family tragedy and horrible illnesses. They’re ones who need help the most.
In my experience what worked was never one single thing. There was a time in my life I was so depressed I could barely shower in the morning. I was not able to function. I really didn’t see any way out of it.
Getting out of it took decades, including multiple relapses. Hell, I have to face the reality that I might relapse again someday. But what worked was the cumulative effect of twenty different things, not one single glorious insight.
I think we as a culture we are very focused on the epiphany, the cathartic moment. Enduring change tends to be incremental.
Advice columnist Carolyn Hax always tells people who are feeling hopeless to either think very big or very small. That means you either put your current situation in the context of the whole world, your whole life, eons of history or you look at the tiny small things: good food, weather you like, comfy clothes, etc. Either one can help to move you away from ugly thoughts.
The other thing that works is helping someone else. When your own problems seem insurmountable, sometimes you can still see how to solve another person’s.
I agree with everyone else, if someone is actively suicidal, getting them mental health services is the best choice.
