I am going to switch to FOX for a week or two.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I generally watch CNN, if I am watching TV at all. Maybe some Rachel Maddow, maybe some Jim Cramer. I will surf around the televangelists, I will peek into FOX once in a while, but the “right-wing” stuff always rubs my nerves wrong after awhile and I turn it off.

This morning I had CNN on before work, they were discussing the 4.1% GDP growth. I thought CNN was going plainly out of its way to spin the news and the speech in a negative way. They didn’t present a coherent criticism of 4.1% GDP growth, but the presenter did sort of sneer and say, “We’re gonna fact check that”, as if there were some kind of fakery behind the report.

My gf suggested I switch over to FOX. So we watched the discussion over there, and the “liberal” guy was pointing out all the bs coming out of the GOP, just point after point. They let him talk, then the other panelists sort of laughed as if they only took him half-seriously but still liked him and then went on about how great Trump is. My comment was, “It’s better because at least they are allowed to say something positive about Trump.”

I’ve been disappointed too many times by CNN and their blatant partisanship. I know what I am going is kind of stunt, kind of like Supersize Me and other dramas like that. I know I will be reminded of why FOX is sheer propaganda, the details of which I’ve somewhat forgotten. This will probably take on the character of an endurance competition.

I do hope I will at least get some challenge to my opinions and POV. FOX is not just another network but a whole 'nother world view. It would be nice if the whole thing turns out to be underpinned by demonstrable facts, but at this point I retain a low tolerance for self-delusion (FOX is on right now in the background). Basically, FOX promotes the idea that bad=good (except on those occasions when the GOP scores a point). Super conservative supreme court judge who might overturn Roe v. Wade? Bad! Not that abortion is all that great, I don’t like it at all, but I think even the dumbest Originalist could parse a plain reading of 1st Amendment separation of church and state. If it takes a team of hot kindergarten teachers to walk them very, very slowly through the whole thing, maybe 3 times over as many days, it can be grokked.

I seriously doubt I am going to become a Trumpist. The deception and lies are going to cause me a species of pain. But I think my reasoning can withstand a few weeks of pro-GOP argumentation. If it truly, simply can’t, then it isn’t worth the poop I had to produce to keep it under consideration anyway.

(I haven’t seen any network suggest that a $1 trillion deficit represents ~5% of the GNP, while GDP is only a segment of the American economy. In the big picture we are actually in the hole, though one might argue that “fake growth” is better in the near to mid term while “recession right this minute” really sucks, right now.)

2

Don’t do it, man. There might be hypnotic suggestion. You may be ruined for life;)

3

Let us know who their advertisers are.

4

Well, I am seeing ads for Flex Seal. Right after being assured that the giant spread of plastic in the ocean doesn’t really exist, and anyway most plastic pollution is on the shore, Other countries’ shores. Other countries are causing plastic pollution, they need to do something about it. Here in America, “leftists” are wasting our time trying to reduce platic pollution. Those crazy leftists!

It remains unclear to me how they decide what is “leftist”, but I have been griping about that for a long time

5

I do honestly think it’s important to look at Fox sometimes, and even listen to Rush. I think we need to know what is being said on both sides. A steady diet of MSNBC is not productive (LOOKING AT YOU, MAN OF MINE) if you never hear anything else. JMHO

6

A week or two? It shouldn’t take that long. Like eating a shit sandwich, if the smell isn’t strong enough a hint, surely the first bite would be. Good luck, I guess.

7

All major networks are deeply flawed, but it’s better to get a balanced diet of BS sometimes than unbalanced.

8

Report back please. I read a variety of news sources, but haven’t yet spent time watching Fox where I wasn’t forced to do so. I would appreciate a condensed briefing.

9

I watched a Fox segment on the 4.1% GDP announcement. It ran something like “Trump is the most embattled President in history, liberals laughed at the tax cuts and cried Armageddon. Now Liberals are falling over themselves backpedaling to justify it is good news and what they were expecting.”

It was pure editorializing instead of presenting the news. That’s my biggest issue with Faux.

Christ, last time I checked there was an election back in 2016. Why this has to be relived on Faux every day is beyond me…other than the pure propaganda value of course.

Try - YMMV

10

Maybe you’ll unearth a Republican Henry Clay that can lead us out of the partisan morass we currently find ourselves in.

11

The president, being less than two years in, has not had an appreciable effect on the economy, period. It’s not spinning to point out that the economy is only at best doing what it is already trending toward.

The issue with Trump is that he defies our expectations. We think that people saying he’s all bad must mean that they are biased, because no one is all bad. But Trump basically is. The best things we can say about him are things that are not as bad as they could be. He has no actual accomplishments. Trump is not normal, and our normal thinking doesn’t work.

I will also tell you that I’ve watched Fox occasionally, and I’m pretty sure I can tell you exactly why that liberal was there. If he was tearing into the GOP, then he was there to be the straw liberal, the one fits all the stereotypes and makes the right wing seem balanced.

It is important to realize you’re not really going to be facing arguments. You’re going to be facing manipulative tactics. If you aren’t on your guard, they can take down your actual reasoned positions, because we humans are emotional creatures first and rational second.

Sure, go watch Fox News for a while, but please make sure it’s not your only news diet. Do what you should be doing anyways, and look things up to get the fuller picture. Since you’re comparing them to CNN, why not watch both? If you ever get to feeling like Trump might not be so bad, remind yourself of every horrible thing he’s done. And read up on tactics that the Right likes to use, so that you are aware when they are using them.

Maybe I’m being overly cautious. But I’ve seen way too many otherwise good people who have jumped on the Trump wagon. And I’ve seen people (usually older) who were reasonable before but got into Fox News and basically just started repeating talking points. I’m wary of anyone who thinks they are Charles Wallace and can stare straight at the Man with the Red Eyes.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where both sides value facts and try to make factual positions. But we don’t. The alt-right’s rise is entirely due to tactics and not actual good positions. So I suggest you familiarize yourself with their tactics. They may sound basic, but they convince a lot of people. And Fox is not above using them.

Still, I do think well of you for attempting this. Not everyone can. I can’t stand Fox long enough to try. But, then again, I can’t stand TV news in general, and get my news in text form most of the time.

12

If you want to listen to an intelligent staunch conservative that doesn’t kiss Trump’s ass all the time, I recommend the Ben Shapiro Show. Available in multiple formats, most easily on YouTube. He is far more fair and balanced than Fox News, which I only catch at my parent’s house (I don’t have cable).

13

FWIW I look at the Fox News web site every so often to see how they are spinning the same news and lately I’ve been a bit taken back by the negative stories on Trump on their front page: “Therapists say people are suffering from Trump presidency… even his supporters”; Kurtz critcally opining “Trump tries a do-over as bipartisan criticism of Putin fiasco grows louder”; and so on.

14

I watch Fox about once a month. I probably last less than an hour. I do it because I am still trying to understand how people support Trump.

Some things stand out. The editorialising of supposedly straight news is probably the worst for me. They also seem to be aiming for a lower level of education with their vocabulary. The Fox and Friend type of shows are really tough to watch. It looks like they are aiming for a very uneducated audience. Much of the shows seem to consist of “Liberals, hyuck hyuck”.

15

Whenever I watch CNN or MSNBC for any length of time I flip over to Fox during the commercials to see what their take is. If it isn’t complete hogwash, then I stick around until the end of the segment. Most often I find their take to be painfully distorted and factually incorrect, but occasionally I learn pertinent facts or perspectives on an issue that CNN and MSNBC are avoiding. MSNBC in particular seems to feel no obligation whatsoever to present the opposing viewpoint.

I couldn’t watch Fox exclusively for any length of time, though, without becoming stabby.

16

I got subjected to Fox today while waiting for the hubby to get his hair cut. The topic was the Cohen tapes; the anchor talked about how she had never heard of a lawyer recording their client, and her guest (who claimed to be a lawyer) not only agreed, but also said we shouldn’t listen to anything coming out of Cohen’s mouth/from the tapes because he was just trying to save himself from prison. Prior to that was an interview with Pence talking about how the president chose the SCOTUS nominee because he would not legislate from the bench, as so many SCOTUS jurists do. There weren’t enough rolleyes to go around.

17

Well, the first “liberal” I saw seemed sincere to me. But later I saw an example of exactly this. I am not familiar enough with these people to remember their names, but their was a segment that featured an interview with what seemed like an actor playing the part of a hippie lady who had recently pulled herself together after an acid trip, bulldogging a defense of “Liberalism” like some kind of extreme-left Kellyanne Conway. The host kind of chuckled and dismantled her silly liberal blather before inviting her back but- um, this person sure did seem artificial to me. The whole thing seemed staged to maintain this fabricated illusion that the conflict in America is whoever FOX viewers happen to be vs. “liberals”. I think the words I used in the OP were “sheer propaganda.”

Today I saw a bit about Trump’s threat to shut down the government if Democrats don’t fund his wall. 1. There wasn’t any discussion of the fact that the president can’t just push a button and boom! the government is shut down, though sure, he can certainly fuck up a lot of shit if he tries hard enough. 2. The issue here isn’t really that Democrats are to blame so much as the notion can’t pass Congress, you know, that body that ostensibly represents the public? Lord knows it is not a perfect institution, but correct me if I am wrong but Mexicans Are Rapists (or insert whatever anti-immigrant argument you think is best) is not persuasive to a majority of the public, especially as an argument to build a wall that won’t stop illegal immigration anyway but simply be a monument to xenophobia. But hey, blame Democrats, that’s pretty easy, FOX. :rolleyes:

I saw some bits about the tariffs, how some businesses are thrilled about them but others will be forced to downsize or shut down altogether. There was a bit about Trump’s rather low approval rating among women, with a female commentator coming on to suggest that Trump’s best approach is to just keep doing his job and avoid identity politics. Hur hur, it is to laugh! He opened his campaign with Mexicans Are Rapists, it has always been too late for him to avoid identity politics!1!!11!

Well, there are a lot of fires, there’s wild bears in Colorado. The US economy is doing GREAT, 4.1% GDP growth proves it, pay no attention to the federal deficit. If the debt reaches $20T worth of treasury bonds, and then the economy tanks enough such that interest rates rise to 5%, suddenly the US public owes ONE TRILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR to the set of people who can afford $20T worth of bonds. Who are these people? Do they own FOX?

18

I like Fox News because the women are so pretty and convincing that they all might be potential ex-wives. Never telling me what is really going on, but just doling out enough information to keep me happy.

Yes, I have been divorced a couple of times, why do you ask?

19

I hardly ever watch FoxNews, but keep in mind that very little content is actually “news”. Almost all of it is editorial. And that’s not particularly unusual for cable news. I think the hard news reporters are the guys like Brett Baer (sp?), Shepherd Smith, and Mike Wallace. If I watch any FoxNews at all, it’s usually MW’s Sunday talk show. I like Sunday Talk shows, but usually I just watch Meet the Press and This Week with George Stephanopoulos. And those shows are at least partly editorials, usually with a panel of folks with differing viewpoints.

20

LOL, this is so funny…you hardly watch Fox, but you know that, “very little content is actually “news” almost all of it is editorial”…as compared to the editorial shows on CNN and MSNBC…and, um, Mike Wallace passed away in 2012, he was best known as one of the founding journalists on 60 Minutes, Chris Wallace is his son, and the host of Fox Sunday…

I am an avowed Independent, I’m sick of both parties, but I find Fox to be the best overall, they all are terrible in their own ways, Chris Cuomo on CNN is laughable at best, and completely snarky and condescending at worst, Rachael Maddow is insufferable…I kind of see (again, MHO) Anderson Cooper and Tucker Carlson as the reasonable voices of the two networks, yes, they are biased in their own way, but they invite on opposing views and can maintain a civil discourse…

Sean Hannity is an absolute Trump puppet, but Shannon Bream and Laura Ingraham are actually good, the Five is very entertaining and actually balanced, Juan Williams, a very liberal commentator, was bounced from NPR in a very public and disgraceful manner, and Fox has provided an outlet for him…

What we have lost in this day and society is intelligent discourse, the capability to discuss differences in intelligent, reasonable, logical and tactful ways…

The recent Gallup/Knight study that put Fox News as the most balanced…https://kf-site-production.s3.amazonaws.com/publications/pdfs/000/000/242/original/KnightFoundation_AmericansViews_Client_Report_010917_Final_Updated.pdf