Sorry for the confusion but that wasn’t MY scenario at all. I was giving an example that was more cut and dry than mine.
I knew he was lazy when we met, I married him anyway making sure I had a prenup in place protecting the life I had already built for myself and my son. Yes, I did everything around the house as well as work and had no problem with it. It wasn’t about him living up to my expectations. I had none. It is about him collecting on something he shouldn’t be entitled to. Or maybe he is. I am still working on it and getting more and more confused with every post I read.
The most annoying part is I bought this darn house because he wanted a music room and my first house was too small for that. So I have been paying almost double the mortgage.
I love it (sarcasm) that people refer to a perfect stranger as “greedy”. (Not you Eleanor). I have taken care of this man for 8 years while throwing nothing in his face. I have been beyond generous with him. He came into the marriage with clothes in a black hefty bag. It isn’t right to talk about charity contributions but since you are all strangers, I donate more than 25% of my salary not to mention help strangers from blog sites and other random internet places that I discover needing help. I have paid several electric bills of complete strangers that were about to have their electricity cut off. Anyone that knows me would laugh at my being called greedy. Greedy is not me. Pragmatic is.
Of course everyone that knows us in the real world think I am a total fool to even give him a dime unless he fights for it and only then if a judge orders it and I lose after ten thousands appeals. Which is why I am here to get beat up by strangers I guess.
I think the mental preparation you should have is: Legally, he’s allowed half of the appreciated value of the house, minus your downpayment…
And it’s the price you may have to pay to get out of a relationship you’re not happy with. I’ve seen people close to me get divorced, it can be cheap, or it can be very very expensive. Your’s sounds like it’s about in the middle.
Call it a business transaction if it makes you feel better. Think of it as the last thing he can affect in your life, then move on. You’re ready to pull the ripcord, but this is a last legal requirement for you to be able to do so.
I, personally would not be happy with myself if I 20k’d my spouse in your situation if he really was on the line for $70+k. While I know you’re bitter about the layabout artist that’s not contributing…you ARE doing something about it, it’s just possibly going to have a higher pricetag than you’d like. But Divorce isn’t about getting your way, it rarely is. The act of getting a divorce is the choice of ONE member in a marriage, the end final tally isn’t.
Now, if that difference in money (call it $50k) can be equivalently stated as childcare and education for the child, and not knowing the amounts, that may be legit. Then you have nothing to worry about…if that calculated amount is less, say $40k back to your coffers, you’re really only ‘out’ $10k.
Would you pay the price of a used car to be out of this mess?
(and to be clear about my assumptions: House Value is $140k after sale and your down payment, leaving $70k a piece. If the $20k is on the table, then $50k is really the amount of money in question…this doesn’t include the value of your business or any other assets, which may change things considerably.)
AuntiePam, I see your point, but she’s not taking candy from a baby - she’s taking candy from a grown man that doesn’t have any interest in finding out if he should hang on to his peppermint twist and I don’t believe she has an obligation to research it for him and hand him the info on a silver platter.
It’s quite similar. He doesn’t work. He doesn’t “contribute” to the household in any financial way. If we divorced, he’d get half of everything (essentially). I chose to marry him. How is any of this different from your situation?
So, your mind wasn’t made up before you even started this thread? I see that you might come out the worse for your marriage financially, just as I will. I see that your husband isn’t pulling his weight, just as mine isn’t. I see that if life were all about accounting, this could be considered unfair.
But I also see that it’s what you agreed to and now you want to renege.
I’ll say it again, if the pre-nup exempts you, congrats. That was a smart choice.
Let me amend my post to say this: I haven’t been clear in what I think is right. I think you should do what you must to the letter of the law. I can’t imagine a lawyer that would advise you otherwise.
My disagreement has been with the posts and “feel” that Foxy somehow owes it to this man to baby-talk him through this step by step or advice that (I think) comes through morality-colored glasses (post referring to Foxy’s having aboyfriend in a snide way).
Foxy, you say you want to be moral and do the right thing.
Being honest is the right thing.
That’s all there is to it. If you are honest with him–if you tell him the things that you know and that he needs to know in order to enter into an agreement as an informed participant–then you will have done the right thing. If you withhold information from him that you know will result in his entering into an agreement in ignorance, then you are not a moral person.
They teach honesty starting in kindergarten. This is a fundamental value. Consider whether you’re behaving honestly, and the rest will follow.
I am sorry but the point of this thread was to get intelligent opinions so I could make up my mind. I posted this because I was able to get many different things to think about from an earlier thread regarding alimony. So, no, and I still have not made up my mind. I feel like a ping pong ball.
You married a disabled man with full intention of living your life with him and sharing everything including money. I married a man that I loved but had no intention of ever sharing one dime with him and thought I had that covered by being prepared with a prenup in order to take care of myself and my kids if this marriage did not work.
If I decide it is right to give it to him, I will. If I decide it is wrong, I won’t. If I have to fight for it, he will not get it if I come to the conclusion that he should not. I have already confirmed that much by asking questions of my attorney I got from this thread.
I am so glad I didn’t go to a silly bitter divorce site.
I don’t see where the conflict is. Where does it say that the attorney has represented to anyone that she is handling this for the husband as well? Husband is acting * pro se*.
Again, the attorney is representing me. He was send a letter saying so, and being advised to retain is own counsel. He choose not to. She has no obligation to tell him anything unless it is subscribed by law. I am her client, he is not.
I don’t know much about divorces and pre-nups and community property, and even I know that when you bought another house after you got married, it went into the community pot (less what you paid for it out of the proceeds from the sale of the house that was covered by the pre-nup). Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but it sounds like you’re bitter because you made some errors in judgement along the way (like not getting a lawyer to make your pre-nup iron-clad, and not getting legal advice on how things like real estate purchases affected the pre-nup), and now the legally and morally right thing for you to do is pay for them.
I really like the idea someone mentioned of adding up years of child support and college and subtracting that from what your ex would get as half the equity. It keeps you and your children in the house where you want to stay, it keeps your ex from being legally obligated for something you both know he won’t pay, it keeps you from having to sell the house and pay him his half; win-win-win. If I were you, I would work up the numbers for this with my lawyer, and bring it to him with full disclosure. You’ll basically get to the same place, but you’ll get there by a much less smelly route.
I think this might help you decide. I did what I thought I had to in my situation–and you will have to do the same–please don’t feel I am judging you, because I am not. You asked for opinions and I am just giving mine.
Lets say he didn’t sit on his ass for 8 years—but he hit it big. Became this famous musician and made a million dollars. Now you and he are getting divorced. You had nothing to do with his music.
Do you think you deserve half of his money in that situation? I would argue that you do. See I view it that in a couple situation there is always support from one to the other—even if it isn’t financial.
My opinion, for what it’s worth (and that is very little), is that honesty is they way to go. The only moral dilemma I see here is whether or not you should fully disclose his rights; I feel you should.
As for the amount, it sounds quite reasonable considering he hasn’t contributed to the household and it seems most he likely never will. If he was to pay $500/month in child support that would more than account for the money he is not getting for the house. I’m sure he would agree as long as you were to put into writing that you would never pursue him for child support in the future, quid pro quo.
Foxy40, just get a second lawyers opinion on whether this $20,000 signoff would hold up in court. If they say yes it is, then just do it. jsgoddess is completely off-track comparing him to a disabled person - offensively, so actually. When your husband needed money to pay the bills, he worked. You aren’t ever going to get child support out of him, apparently, so why go out of your way to flush more of your money down the toilet?
I am a writer (believe it or not with this bad spelling and lousy context), he is a musician. In the prenup, we covered this. In the event of a windfall, neither party is entitled to share in the other’s financial success upon divorce. So, no I don’t think I would be entitled and would feel dirty taking a dime from him that I did not earn anyway. However, that being said, I would certainly expect him to pay child support in that case. We covered everything from inheritances to tax refunds to retirement accounts. What we didn’t cover in writing was any future property because I thought it was covered by the prenup which said all property in my name shall be mine. (Apparently unless I sold it and bought something else while married. Didn’t count on that to matter)
I am surprised that the deal we made doesn’t seem to come into play with anyone’s opinion. He agreed to sign a prenup and leave the marriage if it ended with only the things he brought into it. The joke was “a hefty bag and a bookcase and I am on my way”. Now it is my job to tell him that some where along the line it is possible that I didn’t take into consideration that the law doesn’t agree with our agreement and I may be forced to offer him more. I already offered him 20K more which thrilled him.
I didn’t compare him (deliberately) to a disabled person. I said I was in a very similar situation with my marriage, so howls that I just don’t understand what it’s like to have to give half of everything to someone who doesn’t contribute at all financially are ill-founded.
Look, if you hadn’t put the children into the mix, and I’m assuming he has a bond w/ both children, I would say stick to your guns and protect what you’ve earned, but morally, you two are, very likely commited to a life long relationship. For the sake of the children, it would be best if that could be an amicable, cooperative relationship. Any future strife is going to have a negative effect on their lives. In addition, I seriously doubt that a judge is going to buy some convoluted financial deal when it comes to child support. Your attorney has already put you on notice regarding this, take it seriously as you structure your agreement, because I’m pretty sure that judge is going to demand some periodic support be provided by your future ex.
To tell you the truth, I actually do think your prenup agreement very much comes into play. The problem (for me) is that there is at least a possibility that your prenup doesn’t cover the situation you are in now (with a house bought since you were married.) If it turns out that your prenup does cover the equity on a house bought during the marriage, then you certainly don’t owe him a dime. If your prenup does have a hole in it, and you know about it, then I do think it is the ‘right thing to do’ for you to be sure he knows about that hole. If, with that knowledge, he decides that he wants to stick with what you preceive as the intent of your prenup – that he gets nothing out of your marriage but what he brought into it – then that is his choice.
I’m curious, though – does your prenup cover child support? And you have said that you ‘know’ he won’t pay child support. Is this just an assumption on your part, or has he said specifically that he will not pay child support?
I suggest to you that giving half your money to a lazy man grates a hell of a lot more than to a lazy man. Hell, people run charities for disabled people. When did you last donate money to the “Slackers of America” fund? I really think it’s offensive to say you are in a “similar situation”. Has your husband read this thread? What does he think of this situation comparison?
I like this idea too, but would a judge go for it? I’ve never been divorced and maybe I don’t even understand the concept of child support. But if I were a judge, I’d order Foxy40 to put that money into an annuity or something that provides some protection for the children. The judge can’t trust that Foxy40 will use that money for the children, or that she won’t lose it in bad investments or play the ponies.
I’ve never heard of a judge not ordering payment of child support, even when the custodial parent is more financially secure than the non-custodial parent.
My stepson has custody of his two girls. His ex works sporadically at minimum wage, and she’s ordered to pay $100 a month. (She had a lawyer.) She doesn’t pay it, but that’s beside the point.
Has anyone ever been divorced where child support wasn’t ordered? Or where the custodial parent said “i don’t need it” and the judge said “Okay”?
