You disgust me.
Completely.
First off, I have no idea about anything involving your past, so I’m not criticising that.
Second, regarding the “violence” - I said “DIE inside”. The wounds inside are just as - or more painful than - the wounds which the World can see.
Your reply is somewhat confusing to me. You say that:
Yet, you are willing to give soda your moral support in pursuing a relationship that will lead to the betrayal of a marriage? When you say:
So if some man wants to find love, and he finds it in your wife, you would give him the same advice? Maybe you think this is over-personalizing the issue. Well, IMO some issues simply demand that they be personalized.
I am not making a “personal attack” on you, but I am attacking your point of view. Like soda, you also seem to be a very nice and intelligent person from what I’ve seen, but the things you posted about just seem so very wrong to me. And I greatly disagree with them. And as far as “scaring” someone towards a point of view - I have no idea what you are even talking about. Do I scare by presenting the facts? Well, the facts about betrayal, cheating, and the interference into a marriage are scary.
I don’t know why I bother to get so upset over this, as it makes no difference. I’m quite certain there are many men and women on this Board who were cruelly betrayed in a similar manner, and they have far more to complain about than I. Most likely there will just be nothing but tragedy as a result of this.
Hon, think about if you were the pregnant woman. Would you want your husband cheating on you WHILE you were pregnant?
In case you didn’t know, the answer to this is: no. So find out if he has a brother. If not, I dunno. But you have my sympathy here. I’ve cut off relationships before specifically because my counterpart was otherwise occupied. Painful, bitterly in some cases, but otherwise you’re lying to yourself. And him. And he’s not in the best of positions either.
Previous post was by me. Damn cookies. Maybe I shouldn’t have introduced my MOMMY to the SDMB.
FWIW, we found out after my grandfather died that he had cheated on my grandmother. And his son is 60-ish. You do the math.
I too have been the cheated on wife, and soda you are in for a would of hurt here, any way it goes.
If he leaves his wife for you then there is the backlash that will come from that, and believe me, there will be backlash. From friends, family co-workers ect.
Then as has been pointed out you will have to deal with the fall out from his wife, and honey believe you me, she will react in one way or another. Usually wives do not take it well (would you ?).
But today I have my husband back ,my marriage is stronger, and she is right back in the same crappy life she had before.
Take heed , very few men leave their wives for the other woman, no matter what promises they make or what plans they make together.
This is a no win situation, affairs hurt everyone. Check these sites out if you doubt what I say.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro Check general Questions and just found out here.
This one has sections for people involved in affairs with married people, read the pain so many of then are in and how many lost their marriedmen/women once the affair was out in the open.
http://www.affairs-help.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
Please, ask yourself how you would feel if you were married asnd pregnat and were being cheated on . As has been said by someone else, what goes around comes around.
I must’ve misinterpreted this:
When you said “real-life breakups … are violent” I assume you meant physically violent. If you didn’t, then I withdraw my comment about physical violence.
Probably not. I’m a relativist, as well as being a hopeless romantic. That means that If I say something to soda, that doesn’t mean I’ll say the same thing to the asshole who tries to steal Mrs. Montfort from me. In this case, my words are relevant to soda here and now. We don’t know squat about the wife except that she’s pregnant. Who’s to say that she’s the innocent one here? I’m not suggesting anything, but I’m surely not assuming anything, either. soda hasn’t told us too much, so for all we know, the husband could be wronged by his wife over something.
Which facts pertaining to adultery in Sweden are relevant here? Can you name two? Really, I’m curious. This isn’t America, so stop assuming it is. This is another country with a greatly different set of values and morals. Please keep that in mind. Also, keep in mind that you only know soda’s point of view, not the man’s, and not the wife’s. I see a young woman who is looking for and has found love. I’m encouraging her to follow that love, and damn the torpedoes.
This thread’s been bothering me all day. It’s bringing up memories from when I was “the other man” and my long e-mail to soda detailed all of them. I’m certain that many people have been betrayed in a similar manner, and I’m sure there are people like soda and myself who have been on the other side. And, surely, there’s at least one person who finds themself in the middle,
I agree with you 100% that “most likely there will be nothing but tragedy as a result of this.” I would that it not be so, but I have no control over that. But, I’m not going to sit on any moral throne and judge poor soda for falling in love, especially when I don’t know the whole story, or even 2/3[sup]rds[/sup] of it.
Respectfully,
Montfort
We seem to have siamese-posted, or whatever. I would add Anthracite and Ayesha to the list of posts to reread. Like a mantra if you must.
Soda is. OP.
Grow up Montfort!!! You say you’re a romantic? Big Deal.I’ve been marrier 15 years, and let me tell you real romance is being there for your spouse. Whether it’s cooking the kids dinner because your sick or changing a shitty diaper. Real love is being there through the good and bad.When I recently had surgery the most romantic thing my husband ever did was taking over all the housekeeping responsibilities along with working 12 hour shifts.He cooked, cleaned, ran errands and took total control of child rearing. He never once complained.That’s real romance my deluded friend.
Soda run fast.The man obviously doesn’t know the first thing about love or responsibility.By asking our opinion you are hoping we tell you to go for it,thereby justifying something I think you know in your heart is wrong.Men like him make me so angry and so do women like you who think it’s okay to ruin a marrige just because “You’re in love…sigh” Just remember what goes around comes around. Someday you may be the pregnant wife.
No, I didn’t mean “physical” necessarily - I used too much drama in my words.
I was going to let this go, but you also posted earlier:
But violence takes many forms - the screaming, the punching of walls, the coffee cup through the mirror - I sincerely doubt the Swedish culture has managed to wipe out violent arguments. If so, I’m so glad that they have become so much better than barbaric Americans like myself.
How hard are you trying to convince yourself of this? You sound like someone else recently, whose name escapes me…
Well, if this is how you feel then there’s nothing more I can criticize you about without getting personal, so I’ll leave it at that.
Without going into a GD, all I want to know is one simple thing - is it widely socially acceptable to break marriage vows in Sweden, or to participate in breaking those vows by cheating, unlike most other Western countries? Just yes or no. If yes, then my entire argument is moot, and I obviously shouldn’t talk about this if we’re going to approach it from a cultural relativism argument.
What is saddest to me about this is I really like you and your posts, but I feel like we are coming to a strong disagreement here. Please try to see why what you are saying here might sound kinda bad to others - if you care to. You are of course your own person, and don’t have to change your opinion on anything unless YOU choose to do so. Judging from the opinions I see here (and NO, neither might nor numbers necessarily make right) it seems like my views are not exactly out in left field, however.
You know, to hell with this Montfort. None of this squabbling bewteen us helps out soda with her situation. I’ve made my points, and stand behind each one. You’ve made yours, and stand behind them as well. So be it.
You need, as you know, to break it off. I’ve been the other guy, I’ve been the shoulder that “the other girl” has cried on, I’ve been the shoulder for the girl that had two guys whom she loved more than anything else, so take my word for it.
I know more or less how you feel (namely, in love), but as with any relationship, morally justified or not, if the relationship causes you more pain than joy, elicits more tears than smiles, then it absolutely has to end. I’m not throwing stones, because I’m really not qualified to do so, but following your heart in this case will not make anybody happy in the long run (or, quite possibly, in the short).
Hi, I’m a new guy on the SDMB. I just have three comments for soda.
First, I think it’s useful for you to see some of the outrage and moralizing that’s being posted here. And you should realize how much society tends to look down on “the other woman.” Even if everything goes your way and you end up happily married to the guy, it’s going to keep troubling you. An acquaintance of mine was in a rotten marriage, started up an affair on the side, and then eventually divorced his wife and married the other woman. It’s a happy marriage (and has lasted 15 years so far), but a lot of the folks in town still consider his second wife a “home wrecker” and a “slut” even after all this time. That’s just the way of the world–a lot of the blame falls on the other woman in this situation. And the divorce courts tend to side heavily with the ex-wife as well in these circumstances, by the way.
Second, are you prepared for this to turn out to be a fling? Because that’s what it sounds like to me. Marriages can get strained during pregnancies, and your new boyfriend may be finding the passion with you that is currently missing from his marriage. But his feelings for his wife will go through a lot of changes during the pregnancy, and the marriage bond could easily strengthen again with the birth of the child. And that would be right about the time that the passion between you and him dies down a bit. Frankly, the whole pregnancy angle is a real negative warning signal that implies you have a casual fling on your hands.
Naturally, I would advise you to quit seeing the guy immediately. But from your posts it looks like you plan on continuing the relationship. If that’s the case, then I would advise you to observe the rules of a fling: Extract and enjoy the positives from this relationship. Go ahead and enjoy being desirable and desired. But don’t invest heavily in the relationship and don’t be afraid to lose him. If you think that breaking up with him will involve a lot of drama and trauma on your part, then you’re in trouble. Given all the warning signs, this relationship is a real long-shot. And a lot of drama and trauma at the end of it is only going to make it that much more destructive for everyone involved. But if, on the other hand, you think of it in terms of a fling and keep it light, then you may be able to enjoy the benefits and still minimize the pain to everyone as much as possible.
Third, keep his wife in mind. Try to give her a break when push comes to shove. If nothing else, she deserves some sympathy for being married to such a poor excuse for a husband in the first place. He may be a sweetheart in many ways, but he’s still a poor excuse for a husband.
I’m going to put in my 0.02 here, 'k?
Soda I was almost in your position recently. A flirt thing started up with a married co-worker. When it came down to the wire-being asked out for coffee, etc, I couldn’t do it, for 2 main reasons.
1) he’s married. No matter how I feel, or how tempted I was, I cannot try to take another womans man. To me, that is a big hands-off signal. It did worry me though, because I have never had an attraction like that-normally, once I know someone is married, or in a serious relationship, I lose any attraction, because I know it can’t be.
2) He’s a co-worker. That is always a bad scene. If it doesn’t work, there can be serious problems related to your job.
So think about this seriously- do you want to take the risk of him staying with his wife, and then you having problems at work over it. If you are ok with it, then so be it-but be prepared for emotional pain.
I have read and re-read all your posts again and again. I fully understand that if I didn’t want your advice I should have kept this to myself. But I didn’t and I have come to some kind of conclusion. To many of you, it’s not worth squat, but it is the best I can do right now.
I’m telling him to leave for a month. There will be absolutely no contact during this time, no phone calls, no e-mails, nothing. I will take this time to think about if this is something I am willing to go through. Can I wait for him to resolve everything with his wife and child? It’s not going to happen in a week or two, I’ll have to wait until after the birth of the child to even consider him mine in any way. For what it’s worth, if he were to leave her now, and abandon her in the middle of pregnancy, I wouldn’t think too highly of him, but that’s besides the point. I will ask him to do the same. Think about what he’s got with her and their child, their house, their mutual friends, his and her family. If he truly feels he can be without this, then so be it. I will go to hell and back for him, if he’s willing to do the same for me.
Many of you have asked how I could ever trust a man like that. The simple answer is: because I have no other choice. If I couldn’t trust him, I wouldn’t be here now. I know it’s easy for me to say, but I do feel he is being absolutely truthful with me, mainly because he has told me things I’d rather not hear, and he knows it.
I don’t mean that after just one month apart, we will have figured it all out. But it’s a beginning, and as much as I can cope with. I have always thought of love as something which gently taps you on the shoulder announcing its presence. In this case, it hit me over the head with a baseball bat. I’m still trying to recover.
Thank you for kind (and for your not so kind) advice on this matter. Really.
Yours truly,
soda
Soda, I held off from posting until now, because I wasn’t sure what sort of advice I could give you. I think you are taking a step in the right direction, but I’m not sure that a month is enough time. Would you please reconsider waiting until after the baby is born? A lot can change with the birth of a child, and even if he chooses you after this month, he could still change his mind after the baby. Could you really stand to believe you have his love for a few months, just to have him go back because he decides that being with his family is more important than you?
Soda, I can tell from your posts that you are a kind person, but this really is not the right thing to do. It’s not right for the baby, the Mother, the Father and you. Do you really want a man you have to go through “hell and back” for? Love does not have to be that way. Please remember that.
Agreed. This isn’t our problem, it’s soda’s. We’re both trying to help her from completely different angles.
One bit of advise, soda: insist that he deal with his wife during this time frame. He could easily spend the month with her pretending nothing is wrong and then resume this with you afterwards.
One thing in your OP that sort of impressed me is that he waited for you to return from your 10 day sailing holiday. If this was merely lust on his part, I’m sure it would’ve faded during that time apart. Let’s see what happens during this month. Do keep us posted.
Tatertot, I know what you mean, and I wish I was able to tell him to get away until he’s single. At this point, the mere idea of that is so terrible, and I have to do this at whatever pace I can. A month feels like too long already, but it’s a start.
Montfort, thanks for your e-mail. I know you know. I feel a little better. As far as keeping you posted, I’m not so sure. Maybe I’ll just keep my thoughts and feelings about this to myself until I can say what I want and intend to do. And although no one believes me, I’m positive it’s not just lust on his part. There is so much else going on between us. No one would say that it was just lust if he had been single. I’d hear a lot of “oh lucky you, that sounds like true love”. But the fact that he was already involved with someone doesn’t necessarily diminish his feelings for me. It makes them wrong, for lack of a better word. But no one can say with absolute certainty that he does not feel love for me. I notice that I am trying to justify what’s going on here. I’ll try not to.
I echo Tatortot – one month is just not enough time for either of you to come to any conclusions about the future of your relationship. I would recommend waiting until 6 months after the birth of the baby. A long time, I know, but try to see it as an investment in your future. The situation will fall out in one of a couple of ways:
-
Keep in mind that this is his first child. Possibly after 6 months of living with his son or daughter he won’t be able to concieve of living away from it. I know that, even if my husband wasn’t totally in love with me, he would never leave me for another woman, because that would mean leaving his kids, and *that]/i] he would never do. If you stick with my baby+6 months time frame then, instead of hanging on indefinately as the other woman to a family man, you will be more than 6 months closer to being over him when he decides NOT to leave his family.
-
Absence will make you realize that he is not the man for you, after all. Unclouded by passion, you come to see that the man isn’t worth the hassle.
-or-
- He really does love you. You really do love him. He acts like a man and leaves his wife for you. In this case, you’ve still got the step-child, child-support, ex-wife problems that other posters have mentioned, but you’ll have each other – and, because you took the baby+6 months apart to be sure it was love not infatuation and lust, you’ll have a chance of working those problems through.
Just my $.02.
Dammit! Sorry about the italics – I shoulda hit ‘preview.’
Soda, if you say he loves you, then I believe it. But I’m sure you know that a parent’s love for their child is one of the most powerful forces in the world. He could easily decide, once the baby is born, that staying with his child would be worth losing you. And could you blame him? After all, nothing in your post tells me that his wife is a monster or that she did anything to cause him to lose love for her.
Really, staying away until the baby is born is the best situation for everybody. Is there any way that you can move out of town? I know you are a student, why not see about doing a semester abroad? You can come here, to the University of Heidelberg! I promise I’ll hold your hand and pass lots and lots of tissues…just stay the heck away from my husband. 
Oh, and since she posted while I was typing this, what Jess said, too.