I am the other woman.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
81

Jess, and tot, thank you. You make a lot of sense, both of you.

It would be a good idea to go away for a while, but my program really doesn’t allow it at this point, and I’ve been messing around long enough already to know that I don’t want to take yet another break from school to do something else for a while. I also have my apartment to think about, I don’t want to give it up now that it’s the way I want it, and subletting it is out of the question (been there, done that, and it was not pretty). Thanks for the offer though.

I know about a parent’s love for a child. Not first hand, but still. I also know of several cases where the children are miserable because the parents stay together “for the kids”. I know wonderful, happy, well-adjusted children of divorced parents. I know stranger things than this have happened and everything still worked out for the best.

82

As someone who knows the situation, don’t bet on everything turning out in your favor.

Do you want a guy who can abandon his wife and newborn kid?

83

So, soda went to dinner with him, told him he was the perfect man for her, and allowed him to enter her bedroom and, presumably, her vagina, on more than one occasion, and you figure she hasn’t wronged this woman?

Stop the planet, daddy, I want off!

84

, may I address you personally?

My prior posts were blunt. You still seem to choosing to reply only to the posts who hold out some “hope” for this relationship.
so be it.

You have seemed to decide that this relationship will be worth all that you know (and you do seem to understand that there will be hell to pay) you’ll be in for.

so be it.

you already have your mind made up, you seem to be searching for allies to your position. It should be clear that there won’t be many, but you have found a couple.

so be it.

If, at some later point in time, you say “gee this was a great decision because I have this wonderful relationship” swell, you can tell us all “I told you so”. If, at some later point in time, you say “gads I can’t believe what I did, what I put other people through” I won’t stand in line to tell you “told you so”.

You may have (I don’t know you except from this thread) other qualities -other posters have referred to you as a thoughtful, considerate person with good things to say. What I find troubling here is my sense of the blinders you seem to have on. You say that you’ve thought about all the posts, but you only seem to cling to the very, very few that DON’T bluntly say “drop it now, what you’re doing is very wrong and you know it”. And, that, dear soda, is very troubling, especially since you, yourself seem at some level to be saying the same thing. Self delusion is never a healthy stance.

But, you now have a couple of sympathetic ears, so you have succeeded. Just remember the unsympathetic ears will (at least in my case) still be there for you later, whichever way it turns out. I do wish the best for you.

85

Don’t hold your breath.

86

Soda, how bout you approach the preggie wife, and see how she feels about some kind of a timeshare?

Maybe you could all move in together, and he could impregnate one of you at a time, and fuck the other one silly (including exchanging meaningful looks in the car.) Might as well investigate all the options. I mean, as long as we’re discarding respect for wedding vows…

87

Some people will look for anything to justify their actions…

Show me these happy well adjusted kids.
Do you think they will have the same quality of life with one parent, plus a little child support?
You think that the Mom of this child will let the kid go visit Daddy and the home-wrecking-slut?

HOME WRECKING SLUT harsh term isnt it?
Get used to it. Over the years, you will hear worse.
You arent breaking up a bad marriage, you are destroying a FAMILY!
Your Mother must be SO proud.

Listen to your self: I HAVE to trust him, because I just do! He says he cant NOT love me…

What grade are you guys in???

This is real life sweatheart, and the unborn life you are messing with will never ever thank you for your interference.
These people took VOWS!!! In a church, before GOD, and their friends and family! If you really ‘love’ him so much - tell him to get his cheating ass home and re-commit himself to his family.

You want a story, I’ll give you a story: Shitboy cheated on me with some gutter whore he found at work. Then he left me for her - left me and his 11 month old baby for her. Then he came back to me after he kicked her ass out!! His wife has some things you dont - his NAME, and HIS BABY. You will never, ever, no matter how well you spread your legs be anything in his mind that a slut. A woman who is in your position (no, not just on her back) can never win! Do you think if he leaves his family for you that he will respect you? Pfft. You life in a dream world.

Its one thing to come into the picture when the marriage is over, its another thing entirely to pursue a married man (which you did) snag him, then cut him off till he leaves his wife.

You are a selfish cold calculating home wrecker.

Congradulations: you have actually made me sick.

88

That’s a lame excuse. I’ve heard it before. So you know a few wonderful, happy, well adjusted children of divorced parent. Imagine how well adjusted they’d be if they had an intact family? Wow. Imagine. Parents who set an example of fidelity, integrity, dedication, loyalty. Geez. What if?

I’m not saying marriage is the final word. People do grow apart and sometimes there really are irreconcilable differences.

This is not the case here. You stated the guy was happy before this encounter. This is an example of a man who is abandoning his commitments (very profound ones at that) to pursue a selfish fantasy. He can’t love you, no matter what he says. He does not know you. He can feel like he does, and be sincere when he claims it, which is why it’s believable. But come on. Smell the coffee.

How the hell can this possibly work out for the best? Be realistic. The best thing that can happen at this point is that you realize this guy is riding on a stressborn fantasy, that you are participating in a course of action that will condemn an unborn child to a life without an intact family.

If you don’t know first hand about a parents love for a child, you know nothing. Save this. Print it up and reread it after you’ve given birth and been a parent for a year.

As far as his wife goes. It has been suggested that you go out of your way to be nice, pay lots of alimony etc… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This woman, right now is going through one of the most profound, confusing, stress-full, hormonally and physically challenging experiences of her life. She is probably more vulnerable right now than she has ever been before. She’s going to hate you till the day she dies.

I know of many cases where the wife felt so jilted and betrayed that she’s devoted the rest of her life to revenge. I also know of children who are so fucked up by their parents behaviour that they need professional help. For every rumour of a well adjusted child from a broken home, I’ll supply you with 10 documented cases of children who are so far from well adjusted, they couldn’t find it on a map.

Go find a mirror. Look into it. Ask yourself if you can really live with what you are doing.

89

KELLI - STOP!!!
Make that she makes both of us sick.

Sue, Anthra (if I may be so familiar), wring, phil, kelli, I agree so 100% fully with you but just didn’t have the nerve to post it until now. Plus, it took until this morning (after reading this last afternoon) for me to get as pissed off as I am now.

Soda, do the words “home wrecking b*tch” mean anything to you? As someone who has been cheated on, I can safely say that I can only hope the pain and hurt you are causing this man’s wife comes back and bites you so deep in the butt you can’t see straight for YEARS.

Yep - that’s what it’s cost me - to have been cheated on by ex-hubby - pain and heartache and trust that won’t come back for YEARS!!! And my current relationship is paying the price too. Think about that, little miss “he can’t help but love me”.

And if someone has a problem with this harsh a reaction, well then feel free to say so - come stay awhile with me - live my life with me - explain things to my kid about his dad - YOU’RE GONNA LOVE IT.

90

You don’t think this guy thought the same way when he got married? You don’t think his pregnant wife still feels that way?

Do Mr. Rourke and Tattoo bid you good morning in their white suits when you get up each day?

Relativist? Hopeless romantic? Try ‘hypocrite.’

And for all those who’ve qualified their answers by saying they don’t want to make a moral judgement, please allow me to emphasize that I’m more than happy to make one.

For those who say, “I don’t want to say it’s a simplistic, black-and-white issue,” please, allow me to say that it most certainly is.

Leaving a committed relationship? Sometimes it has to be done. Adultery, however, is wrong. Adultery is never right. It hurts people. Doesn’t matter whether you are Christian, Buddhist, athiest or worship David Arquette.

Good luck, soda. You’re going to need it.

91

Soda, having been the one who was cheated on in my first marriage, you’ll have to forgive me for not being dispassionate about this.

I’m not going to preach to you that what you’re doing is wrong. You’ve already had enough people do that. But I will say that what you’re doing is at best short-sighted and at worst unbelivably stupid.

So you’re taking a month off. Good. That gives you time to rehearse this little speech when the month is over.

“If you love me, you have to leave your wife. If you want custody of your child, I will love it and raise it like my own. But you have to leave your wife.”

Let’s see how many excuses he can give you.

By the way, you should know that my first wife did leave me to run off with the guy she had fallen in love with. After five months he was cheating on her, had torn up her art work after a fight and walked out on her. She tried to reconcile. They got divorced four months later.

Good luck, you’re going to need it.

92

“Alienation of Affection”

Soda, your story is very moving and I actually feel for you, but as a grown up child of divorce-due-to-betrayal, I know that there’s more than one legal battle ahead if everything blows up… People will sue for anything these days, and if this woman decides to sue YOU for Alienation of Affection, you’re up shit creek because I’ve NEVER heard of a case that didn’t win. It’s sad and ridiculous that there are so many lawsuits like that out there, but it’s also very real. People think everything that happens to them entitles them to take money away from someone, and that is SO fucked up.

And, contrary to popular belief, I actually think it’s better (while still not good) for a kid to grow up fatherless than to grow up with a father and then have him up and leave, which is entirely possible… If he did it once, he could do it again.

On a personal note, I in my childishly-mature (makes no sense) manner, when asked by my father if I “had anything to say” right after he told me and my mother that he was leaving our Brady-bunch-perfect family for a very ugly and obnoxious woman, replied only, “If you’re going to fuck off, fuck off.”

Until then I had never uttered an ill word in my father’s presence… Never needed to, he’d always been a perfect father.
Uggh… I am SO sorry for eating up all this space.

Goldstein out.

93

I apologize for all the crap about lawsuits… Forgot we were talking about Sweden… I don’t know anything about the Swedish judicial system, but I’m sure it’s nowhere near as lawsuit-polluted as ours.

94

Soda:

Since I’ve already posted on the subject, I might as well follow up with some more advice based on your new input.

I think you’re on the right track here. Taking some time off is a good step. But keep in mind the following:

Yes, he probably does truly love you at the moment. And he may truly love you a month from now. But love is subject to the strains and pressures of life. He could move in with you in October, and then change his mind and move back in with his wife in December. Passion doesn’t last. Sooner or later every relationship gets to that point where passion fades and a comfortable routine sets in. And that’s when you’re going to be in trouble.

You said in your first post on the subject that “He wasn’t unhappy before he met me.” I take that to mean that his relationship with his wife was basically okay or humdrum, but he’s now grabbing an opportunity to “trade up” to someone (you) who inspires more passion in him. That bothers me because most husbands get one or even many opportunities to “trade up” during a marriage but don’t do it. Most husbands understand that their commitments to the wife and family override the lure of the opportunity to trade up.

Here’s my own personal experience: I was married for ten years and then divorced my wife. During the ten years of marriage I had several opportunities to trade up to more passionate relationships, but I didn’t take them. I only divorced my wife when our marriage turned into a war zone and stayed that way for a couple years. And even then it tore my heart out to end the relationship, because my commitment to my wife still mattered to me even when I hated her. And when I say “commitment,” I don’t just mean wedding vows. I mean our history together, our plans for the future, our investments and purchases together, our upcoming vacations, our routines together and mutual support for each other when one of us was in trouble (even when we were feuding), and so on and so on. And I can’t even imagine what it would have been like if we had had children.

So I speak from experience. Normal people just don’t walk away from commitments of that magnitude simply because they see an opportunity to trade up. Based on the little bit that you’ve said about his relationship with his wife, I have to assume that he has no respect for his commitments, and that your relationship with him isn’t going to last past the point when the bloom wears off the rose.

If your boyfriend is taking the opportunity to trade up, then that means that his commitments are relatively unimportant to him. He is going to act on his whims. He loves you now, so he wants to be with you now. What happens when the passion inevitably fades and other opportunities arise, or when he awakens to the fact that he has a child in the world? What happens when the daily grind of life (legal proceedings, divorce, alimony and child support payments, gossipy neighbors, or a new job elsewhere) make it easier to leave you than stay with you? Based on his past history he certainly isn’t going to stick around out of a sense of commitment to the promises he has made you. After all, he made the same promises and more to his wife, and they aren’t doing her much good now.

I’m all in favor of passion and true love. An offer of genuine passion and love shouldn’t be discarded lightly. But I also think that you have to keep your eyes open for warning signs. Consumer beware. Yes, he probably does indeed truly love you right now. But if he has no respect for commitment, then he’s not going to be around for you once the passion wears thin and the daily grind of routine life together kicks in.

So here’s my advice. If you get back together in a month, then consider my previous advice about keeping it on the level of a fling. Keep your investment in your relationship with him to the minimum possible. Do the fling thing, just as a last line of defense against almost inevitable (in my opinion) disaster.

Okay, I’m all done. The month-long break is a good start. And I wish you the best of luck, whatever path you choose.

95

Soda:

Say he leaves his wife for you. What’s next?
Are you going to decide you want to be a mother and fight her for custody of her baby? (A ready made family for you to steal away from her, how sweet.)

If not, are you prepared to spend your weekends with this baby for whom you will be given much responsibility, but very little authority? No matter how good you are to that baby, you’ll never be its mother.

Are you prepared to worry about his fidelity every time he goes over to his ex-wife’s house to visit the baby?

Are you going to be angry and call her all sorts of names when he has to pay her for child support?

Are you prepared to lose him if/when YOU get pregnant?

This is loathsome.

I’m sure, however, that the two of you will find a way to justify all of this in your heads and do what you want to anyway. That’s what amoral people always do. Then they dump on me and everyone like me for being too judgemental.

Prove me wrong. Please.

96

Before I end up in the Pit, I’m withdrawing from this thread. I will keep lurking, and will continue to offer my full support and empathy for soda.

97

Are you insane or just an idiot???

That’s all I have to say.

98

Kellibelli et al:

You haven’t noticed that soda is ** only ** responding to those very, very few posters that are offering her some glimmer of “maybe it will happen for you with this guy”???

She ain’t listening to anyone who doesn’t spout that line. I said as much in my last posting to her (and it IS my last to her, I’m addressing the rest of us).

She KNOWS she’s doing something wrong and that she’s hurting innocent people. She says she “cares” and “feels badly” about that, but she’s still committed to that course of action, despite her own realization that what she’s doing is wrong, and continues to offer feeble justifications as to why it’s not that bad ("I know of children of divorce who are happy…). She’s continuing to ignore realities of potential diseases, unhappiness for many innocents, potential loss of friends and respect of others… That level of dillusion (or Hypocrisy - I don’t know her well enough to tell which) cannot be broken by words on a computer screen.
So, I suggest that we all save our words for some one who will actually listen.

99

soda, you say you are a logical, rational person. You are not acting like one. You are completely ignoring the obvious common sense logic (that person after person has posted here), and running with your “heart” instead. Oh, the romantics among us will say that’s the best thing to do, but as a romantic, I must tell you that you must NEVER ignore your reasonable and logical side when it comes to relationships. Relationships are not fantasy and whimsy and fairy tale fodder, they are real world events surrounded in real world reason.

You are “in love” with a completely selfish asshole, soda. Adultery in and of itself is an anguished betrayal, but while his wife is pregnant with his first child?! Surely your logical side hears just how bad that is. Surely you are hearing your conscience, however much the voice has been muted, groan when it considers the straight facts of the situation.

Do you disgust me? Not yet. But if you continue in this “relationship,” blatantly throwing reason and understanding and compassion for his pregnant wife to the wind, then you will only prove to everyone else–if never yourself–that you are as value-less and despicable as he is.

Do what’s right, soda. Kiss this sickening creature goodbye.

100

I guess I don’t know why the speech is necessay, this is a man who WILL cheat on a wife…ANY wife (what makes anyone think Soda is more “special” in this guys eye in the long run…in a few months/years a new Soda would come along. Anyone who thinks differently is truly wearing blinders.

The guys has shown his lack of character and his inability to be trusted. I hope Soda, that you think you are worthy of a man who would keep a committment with you…this is OBVIOUSLY not such a man…I’m sure that when he MARRIED his current wife, he probably told her similar things that he is telling you (that’s why he married her in the first place, right?)

Find a man worthy of your love, respect and committment in the long run. NO married man fits that category

dave