I am the other woman.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
121

I tried to keep this issue separate, but I’ll chime back in. The fact that his wife is pregnant makes a poignant difference, to me.

A man who cheats on his wife, then leaves her, is a snake. A man who does same when his wife is pregnant (or they have a new baby) is so much lower than that, I don’t have words to describe it.

If there was ever a time a husband needs to suck it up and BE THERE, this is it. This is not a matter of “staying together for the children.” It’s a matter of staying around during one of the most difficult periods imaginable in terms of uncertainty, workload, hormones, emotions, and sleep deprivation. Those first weeks of a baby’s life are brutal.

Maybe a month would be fair enough in some situations. But this guy made a commitment that he has to follow through on. If not the marriage, then at the very least bringing that baby into the world and giving it a fair start. I liked the 6 months after the baby suggestion. You say that’s not workable? Of course it is, if this is true love. Even if your fellowship sends you to antarctica, true love would work out and you work it out in July when that time period is up.

122

But he’s a Parrothead, and that makes up for ANYTHING that’s wrong with him! :slight_smile:

123

To be perfectly honest, I don’t even think they’ll last a week apart. I suspect he’ll grudgingly agree to go a month without communication, and then a few days later he’ll be leaving messages insisting he can’t stand it without her and saying that the very fact that he can’t be without her is one more proof of his passion for her. From reading Soda’s first post it seems to me that he has been pushing her hard, and this month-long break idea will eventually be just one more opportunity to push again.

I used to play these same kinds of games when I was dating around a lot in my twenties and early thirties. Of course, I was single and childless, so I always figured that it was just part of the mating dance. Frankly, it’s pretty nasty to see a married man doing it.

Anyway, I think that Soda just needs to see him for what he is and figure out once and for all what she wants to do with this guy. She needs to figure out precisely where she wants to make a stand. Otherwise he’s going to keep blindsiding her with new tricks.

By the way, I admit I don’t know much about Soda and her boyfriend, and I may be way off-base. But as someone who used to play the game pretty well in the past, it sounds to me like she is getting worked over by a pro. As such, I have a certain amount of sympathy for her. She’s obviously not in his league, and I think we have to make some allowances for youth and inexperience on her part.

Hence my suggestion that she treat it as a fling. I don’t think she has the sophistication to handle him (hell, the affair is already underway and a couple weeks old by now), so it seems to me that the next best solution is to go ahead and enjoy and just be aware that it won’t last very long. He’s in love with her alright. But it isn’t the kind of love that lasts very long. As soon as she becomes a pain in the ass…

But I’ll grant that there’s always the possibility I may be wrong. Maybe I’m just being cynical.

124

No.
:frowning:

125

Huh. I’d like you to have a heart to heart talk with my childrens’ friends, who after having been at our house for a sleepover, are envious of my kids for having a mom and dad, together in the same house.

Please use your head for something other than a hat rack, ok?

126

Beagledave: Yeah, I wrote that assuming she’d realize who the other two of the three will certainly be. However, she seems to think that the happyness she had with this guy for the two or thre weeks they’ve been together will last.

And sure, it might.

but don’t count on it. The odds are weighted heavily towards heartbreak.

127

I did understand and appreciate your original point Sealemon…I guess my point is, that in this particular situation, I honestly don’t believe that Soda’s “happiness” is even remotely the most important thing to be concerned about. Guess I’m judgemental :slight_smile:

128

I didn’t say to move it to the Pit so we could flame her. In case you didn’t notice, I didn’t flame her, and in case you haven’t noticed, I don’t flame people.

What I did say was this:

As you have observed, this kind of behavior seriously pisses some people off. Other people, such as myself, are not livid or angry, but still disagree with what she’s doing and have offered the advice, over and over again, that she end this almost certainly doomed relationship. An extremely rare few are offering support of this relationship. Frankly, I’ve been impressed by the level of civility in this thread…there’s been a few who’ve flamed a bit harshly, but why address all of us and not those certain few? And why close the thread rather than move it to a more appropriate forum? Perhaps even Great Debates, where such moral issues are more regularly addressed, and with less personal vitriol?

It is only my suggestion. It is obvious you disagree with it, but I wanted to be certain you understood my original reasoning for the suggestion.

129

A few points…redundant, boring: y’know, usual!

UncleBeer: no contrarian nitpicking intended, but I’m not sure why this thread differs from many past. Soda asked for reactions to a controversial situation; responses were heated and opinionated, but almost polite for this place.

Not busting your chops here (you have forgotten the drunken party that torched your green couch, right?) but somehow I’ve stumbled over previously perceived lines. (Translation: if you don’t want the answer, don’t ask the question. When the answers singe, hie it to the Pit!)

Soda: There is no translation problem; your conscience isn’t speaking Urdu. You hear it but don’t want to listen.

There is no happy ending in what you’re doing.

Passion burns, love lasts and you will have to face your own choices until life ends. Yes, you. Every waking and sleeping moment, for the rest of your life, you’ll have to live with yourself, no escape.

Tests are gifts. Hard test: big gift. Don’t think for one moment that your temptations, yearnings or seductions are unique. But don’t think for one moment that the choices you make now won’t mark you for the rest of your life.

My reaction, person to person? Blow off reactions here on the board, believe whatever…but you know what’s right. Right doesn’t mean easy; think character is cheap?

Aching for you, but it’s time to define yourself.

Your choice. You’ll live with it.

And so will a hapless baby.

Veb

130

And I repeat, you will survive ending this affair. He not only is not the only man for you (it’s a big, overpopulated world), he is not the man for you at all! I’m not cutting you any slack because you are from a different country with a different moral code. The basic cultural rules are the same here or in Sweden. He is a married father, therefore it is bad to be involved with him.

It will be hard. It will hurt REAL BAD for a pretty long time. But it is better to be hurt now, when you are the only one who gets hurt. If you do it later you will screw up the lives of everybody involved! Do you want that little baby to grow up without a father at home—and have it be YOUR FAULT? And it will be your fault if you allow this affair to continue.

I am speaking from the other side, as the wronging man. Yeah, I thought I was more in love than I had ever been. I came to my senses before it went too far. It hurt like a son of a bitch for a long time. I got over it and am still married. My children still have me to help take care of them; to guide them as they grow up. And I am happy.

And you still have us. Where else can you find a bunch of strangers, mostly thousands of miles away, to yell at you and each other?

{{{{{{Soda}}}}}} (in a totally platonic way)

Mike

131

What does “Doctor” Laura have to do with this thread?

132

I don’t know, and I kinda resent the suggestion that I or anybody who disagrees with Soda’s actions on the grounds that they are just plain tacky should be dismissed because my opinion happens to be similar to that of Dr Laura. She’s often right.

I also resent that all cheating men are being tarred with the same brush here. In my case it hit me from out of the blue. I wasn’t looking for it and I sure wasn’t pleased when it happened. I didn’t want to be a snake, the woman didn’t want to be a homewrecker and certainly didn’t love me. So it ended before anybody but me got hurt.

133

This is not helping Soda or the others concerned.

134

I think you are misreading the point behind the original comment. There was no suggestion that opinions critical of Soda’s actions should be dismissed. Quite the opposite, probably.

I saw the original comment as a wry look at perceptions and reactions. cmkeller’s point (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, Chaim) was that a good majority of the posts on this thread criticizing Soda could have been written by Dr. Laura, based on her philosophy/morality. The ironic part comes in when one looks at how despised Dr. Laura is on this board; yet here is a case where 90% of the posters to this thread would coincide with her beliefs.

135

[concluding Dr Laura hijack] As I recall, you are right (remind me not to post when exhausted AND haven’t read that post for a day). And it is MIGHTY ironic. [/concluding Dr Laura hijack]

136

I answered the original post from cmkeller, and said I disagreed because the difference between her and this thread was the tone; Dr. Laura called people names and was judgmental and self-righteous, and most of the posters thus far, although giving very strong opinions, were doing it kindly.

A day later cmkeller asked if I still thought there was a difference in tone, and I said no.

137

Sheesh, just because we despise Dr. Laura doesn’t mean that we disagree with her on every single point!

UncleBeer: I must respectfully disagree with your assessment. You may be a moderator, but I am not sure you have any right to dictate the terms of the debate. If you feel that this thread, as it is developing, is too harsh for MPSIMS, then close it or move it.

138

I agree with you on this Dave. Once again a child is hurt through the selfishness of adults. I’m not saying you are right or wrong here soda, but there are so many things you need to consider here. Do you really know this person? How would you feel in the wife’s shoes? What will he do when this child enters the world? Does he want to see you only for sex?

A big question for me would be… do I feel guilty? if the answer is yes, then I think you’ve found your answer.

139

Oh, you’re absolutely right Dave. I was just trying to appeal to her basic self-interest. If there isn’t going to be a happy ending for her, maybe that will help her realize that it’s not worth the price of two innocent people (The wife and especaiily the baby) being hurt.

This is a no-win situation for her, with two innocent bystanders in the crosshairs.

140

Have I missed something basic all the way along here?

The basic issue is right vs wrong. Having human compassion for Soda’s dilemna doesn’t change the fact that what she and her lover are doing is wrong, wrong, wrong.

She’s passionately involved with a married man who’s very soon to be a father. Previously, his marriage was stable and happy. Soda suffers and yearns, but it’s for someone she has no justifiable right to. Personal pain should be respected but it doesn’t negate or excuse the pain and damage done to the lover’s wife and child.

Frankly, this is a no-brainer in terms of complexity or uniqueness. How and when did it morph into forbidden territory for board discussion when asked, and how is it any way analogous to Dr. Laura’s “attack for bucks” showboating?

Dr. Laura holds no patent on morality; actually, displays precious little evidence of applied moral sense herself. In fact, she’s a red herring in this discussion (with abject apologies to herring everywhere).

Moral high ground doesn’t carry Dr. Laura’s flag by right of conquest, as much as she likes to imply it does, and discussing the boundaries isn’t–or shouldn’t–be verboten here when posed as a question.

Veb