I Created A Monster

The BBQ Pit
81

If, as you say, he’s not addicted/in trouble/stealing from others, it seems you need to convince him that you are not his personal ATM, and that there are consequences to his actions. eleanorigby has a great list in post 79. It needs to be abundantly clear that you know what he was doing, that you are royally pissed off at it, and that you no longer trust him. He acts like a 13 year old who hasn’t learned better? He gets treated like one.

What might happen if he gets a job, and decides that he isn’t making enough, and his employer “owes” him more? They aren’t going to hesitate to call the police.

82

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
This is what I was coming back to suggest. Collect all the stuff and make HIM sell it on ebay (supervise it, so you know he’s doing it), and set up your own PayPal account to collect the cash.

(Your entire post was great, eleanor!)
[/QUOTE]

One thing I’d add. Foxy40 should draw up a statement of what the kid owes. Money from selling the stuff on ebay comes off it. He should pay some nominal room and board, and agree on a repayment plan from his paycheck. I bet he has no idea of the real impact of his actions.

One thing most kids don’t get is the cost of living. When my older daughter, now on her own, comes back to visit she is a hell of a lot more responsible about turning out lights and stuff than she was when she was in college. Even paying some room and board will help educate him, though it doesn’t have to be enough to cover expenses.

83

First of all, unless he is an authorised user of the card, he was committing credit card fraud, and you should be able to recover your money from the banks involved, which will go a long way toward restoring your credit. IF you are willing to pursue it, which you don’t seem to be.

Actually you should be glad he’s jonesing for Taco Bell – it’s about the cheapest food in the world to be addicted to. But if he’s taking his girl out for “nice dinners” it’s not at Taco Bell.

IMO, don’t take that batshit insane advice and try to get him into the military – if you don’t want to call the cops on him, you don’t want to send him off to Iraq either.

I got news for you. By NOT reporting his credit card fraud as a crime, you are taking responsibility for his behavior. You are taking the consequences of his behavior on your own shoulders.

84

[QUOTE=Foxy40]
HE JUST DOESN’T GET THAT HE STOLE FROM ME. (sorry to shout but it is so frustrating).
[/QUOTE]

No problem if you want to vent, but I am not the person you should be yelling this at. Hint: nobody else in this thread is the one either.
The very first step is you have to make him realize that he did in fact steal from you. Grand theft to be exact. Once you make him realize this, then you can move on to what to do about the situation. Until he jumps starts that 3rd brain cell and realizes that he has committed a couple of serious crimes (grand theft, and forgery) I fear that all of your efforts will be for naught.
One way you might get him to wake up and smell the coffee is to print out this entire thread, and sit him down and make him read it. Then the two of you discuss it post by post. Ask him if the roles were reversed, what would he do?
eleanorigby restated pretty much what I said before (but with better grammar :slight_smile: ) I still think these are valid ideas. I would add if yo do set his paycheck up for direct deposit, start a new account that you do not keep any money in except his direct deposit paycheck. Remember the NY slogan: “Fuck me once shame on you, fuck me twice shame on me.” Don’t give him the chance.

I agree with this 100%. One of the big problems with kids is they don’t come with instruction books. And the books you can buy might work for one kid but not another. Foxy didn’t treat her son that much different than my parents treated me, or I treated my kids. I didn’t steal from my parents, and neither did my kids. The responsibility goes with the son here.

85

I normally don’t offer advice on these boards, but after reading all of this I’m so infuriated I had to reply…

Foxy40, what is wrong with you?

You did indeed create a monster. You are sending the message to your son that it is ok to steal and walk all over loved ones. You are telling him it is ok to be lazy and to lie. And you are telling him it is ok for this behavior to continue - which it will, trust me.

Your son may love you, but he doesn’t care about you. You are minimizing and justifing his actions. I’m a cop in a suburb full of spoiled little brats just like your son and it amazes me why parents allow their adult children to abuse them. Wait, I remember, it’s because there are no consequences!!

You need to involve the legal process. Just by reading your responses to other people you are clearly in denial, because you still think of your son as a warm and kind person. Bullshit. He needs to grow up and he needs to do it yesterday. By involving the legal system, he will get some objective punishment, something you obviously will not dispense. You worry about him spending time in prison, but I highly doubt that will happen - he is a first time offender and the prosecutor will take your opinions under advisement. Also, you don’t need to tell the police about everything - perhaps just charge him for forging checks? or misuse of credit cards? Whatever it is, you need to do something.

Also, kick him out of the house. Now. Does he pay rent? I’m sure he doesn’t. Who is paying for his college? I’d bet everything I own he hasn’t chipped in one red cent to his education.

Foxy40, I don’t intend for my post to be hurtful, but you need to hear it.

I deal with kids like your son on a daily basis and the time for counselling, hugs, and kisses has long since passed. Even if your son stops stealing today, he still hasn’t learned anything about personal responsibility, honesty, wise money management, hard work, or respect.

I wish you all the best and the courage to make it happen.

86

You are still spoiling him. You know you made mistakes raising him, you can see the results. You need to stop NOW or what hes turned into will be a pleasant memory a few years from now.

87

[QUOTE=Duggy Fizzle]
And you are telling him it is ok for this behavior to continue - which it will, trust me.

Your son may love you, but he doesn’t care about you. You are minimizing and justifing his actions. I’m a cop in a suburb full of spoiled little brats just like your son and it amazes me why parents allow their adult children to abuse them. Wait, I remember, it’s because there are no consequences!!

[/QUOTE]

Whhoooaaaaa. Allow me to pipe in. Just because I didn’t call the police doesn’t mean there have been no consquences! Believe me, I didn’t kiss him on the head and send him to bed with no supper. He is in a world of shit and he knows it. He isn’t permitted to have his friends or his girlfriend in the house anymore, He isn’t allowed to use my phone. I took out his TV and his cable. I cancelled his cell phone. My bedroom door now has a lock that requires a key to enter. He was given a list of things he must do to stay here. I didn’t make a deal with his paycheck but taking half is a very good idea and I will talk to him about that in a bit.
Essentially, the boy has been my “bitch” since he was found out. He is doing everything he is told and I am thinking of more things every day. (pressure wash the deck, paint his room, scrub the grout,etc etc).

Honestly the worst part for him is that I don’t talk to him anymore. I am hurt and disappointed in him and I can’t look at him. We were always very close. He tries telling me about his work or his girlfriend and I ignore him. Not out of punishment but because I really can’t stand to look at him after what he has done to me. My mother got involved after he complained to her about my distance stating “Mom doesn’t even like me anymore”. She felt I was being cruel but I am human and honestly, although I will always love him, I don’t particularly like him anymore. He is right.

88

In fairness to him, then–you need to TELL him that. Just say to him–I am too angry to be with you right now. I’m not sure when I’ll be less angry–this event has been a terrible blow to me. I can no longer trust you.
yes, he may already know this–but it doesn’t hurt to tell him. Silence will only increase the hurt and the resentment (on both parts)–he may see it as a rejection of him, not his behavior. God, I sound like an armchair pyschologist. Sorry. What I’m trying to say is that he may come to see your silence as manipulating–unless he knows that you are still hurting. He will only know for sure if you tell him.

I think you have too many credit cards, btw. But that’s none of my business…

89

Foxy, there’s been some good advice given here. Mainly it appears that you have to get stronger before any change can be had. One thing I was wondering, why not have your husband come pick him up one day—tomorrow—and say “grab your stuff, you’re now living with me. If at any point you feel the accomodations are not to your likiing you can leave. But you can’t come back here until you’ve demonstrated that you are both responsible and trustworthy.”

Another thing that crossed my mind is that if I would have even contemplated doing what your son did, one thing that would have happened would have been an ass-kicking from my father, or older brother, or both. Not always a good thing and not very PC, but a very good deterrent to such unjustifable behavior. Has his dad sat him down and expressed his displeasure with his behavior, even verbally?

And as some posters have said, do let you know that you love him. And you will continue to love him whether he gets a good job or goes to jail. Those decisions are his.

I wish you luck with this. My sister was going down a similar road and it was extremely difficult for the whole family. Fortunately she decided to leave on her own and has changed her ways 180 degrees. Best of luck to you.

[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
IMO, don’t take that batshit insane advice and try to get him into the military – if you don’t want to call the cops on him, you don’t want to send him off to Iraq either.
[/QUOTE]

Was this necessary? “Batshit insane”? Whether you like it or not, the fact is that the military has set straight more than a few kids. My uncle, for one, who turned into a successful, very responsible member of society. It is an option. As distasteful as you might find it, I’ll go out on a limb that you’d agree that it is a better option than having your kid wind up in jail and the future that will likely lead to or on a slab because he had to pay a real-world price for his thieving. Also, going into the military does not equal going to Iraq. I’ll leave it there as not to further distract from the OP.

90

If I might offer one small bit of advice: Don’t let this end your relationship. Your life will be over before you know it and dying with shit like that stuck in your craw is a mother f’r.

91

[QUOTE=featherlou]
From what you’ve told us over time here, your husband (ex, current, whatever he is now) takes advantage of you, your employees take advantage of you, and your son takes advantage of you (I guess your daughter isn’t old enough to take advantage of you yet, or we just haven’t heard about it yet). Have you considered the possibility that the problem isn’t with everyone else? I am very sorry that your son is a criminal, but if you want him to change, I think the change starts with you.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, whaa. Everyone takes advantage of me! :rolleyes:

No one has ever taken advantage of me. I have a very generous spirit as long as you don’t push me. When these people have pushed, I push back. I have been working on trying to be more approachable to my employees. It concerns me that many are afraid of me. I can just imagine the looks on their faces if anyone ever told them that they take advantage of their overly kind boss.

Yes, my little snot son has robbed me and he and I have to work that out. Taking advantage would be him asking me for twenty bucks to take his gal to the movies right now. He isn’t that stupid.

You and I are strangers featherlou but I am wondering why when I post about being generous with money you automatically assume that I am being taken advantage of in those other areas. (husband, employees) Is selfishness essential to being strong in your opinion? Is this just for women or for men as well? This is a serious question and not a jab.

92

[QUOTE=magellan01]
…Was this necessary? “Batshit insane”? Whether you like it or not, the fact is that the military has set straight more than a few kids. My uncle, for one, who turned into a successful, very responsible member of society. It is an option. As distasteful as you might find it, I’ll go out on a limb that you’d agree that it is a better option than having your kid wind up in jail and the future that will likely lead to or on a slab because he had to pay a real-world price for his thieving. Also, going into the military does not equal going to Iraq. I’ll leave it there as not to further distract from the OP.
[/QUOTE]

At this time in history, with this war going on and an insane administration sending kids into a meat grinder for no good reason, I think it would be an act of insanity to encourage your kids to enter the military – now, today.

I would not say this under different circumstances. My sister was in the Air Force, and she did well by it.

And as this is off-topic, I won’t continue to discuss this here. Fell free to start another thread if you feel the need. I will participate if you do.

93

[QUOTE=Foxy40]
…No one has ever taken advantage of me. …
[/QUOTE]

And I wonder how, after THIS thread, you can possibly make a statement like this.

94

[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
In fairness to him, then–you need to TELL him that. Just say to him–I am too angry to be with you right now. I’m not sure when I’ll be less angry–this event has been a terrible blow to me. I can no longer trust you.
yes, he may already know this–but it doesn’t hurt to tell him. Silence will only increase the hurt and the resentment (on both parts)–he may see it as a rejection of him, not his behavior. God, I sound like an armchair pyschologist. Sorry. What I’m trying to say is that he may come to see your silence as manipulating–unless he knows that you are still hurting. He will only know for sure if you tell him.

I think you have too many credit cards, btw. But that’s none of my business…
[/QUOTE]

With your advice, you are missing your calling. I’d pay!!

Yes, I have too many cards. I use them for frequent flyer miles because I travel so much so when I put the flights on the cards, they have offers such as double miles etc. I don’t use credit cards that much for other things which is why I didn’t expect bills.

I know I have to talk to him. I. Know. I am just disgusted. He has a lot to show me before I get to the point of forgiveness. I feel like he put a wedge between us by doing these horrible things and it isn’t going to be easy to get over even if he gets his shit together.

95

[QUOTE=whole bean]
I was thinking Rollins.
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
Ladies and gents we HAVE a winner.
[/QUOTE]

[/quote]

I live right down the street from Rollins, literally a three minute walk. I dont go to Rollins, but I have friends there. I was just thinking maybe there is some way I could hang out with your son, you know, get an impression of him from somebody who is not involved with this issue. Eh, it’s a silly thought but I thought I’d throw it out there.

For that matter, if you want somebody to vent with, I’m available pretty much all the time until the 31st. Seriously, I mean I’m only a few years older than your son, but I’d love to do anything I can to help. IMO, talking things over in person helps a lot more than the internet.

Anyway, my opinion on the matter is thus: I’m not getting the impression of you as a naive, monster-enabler here, a soft pushover who lets her son do anything and covers for it. You’re taking action right? The question is, is that enough? Will these domestic punishments get it into his head that his present course of action is not acceptable? Only you know it. If kicking him out is the best option, you must not let your emotions stop you.

Still, you can only do so much. From the tone of your posts, I think you are being way too hard on yourself. Your son is not a monster. He’s a kid who is fucking up bad. Now, if he doesn’t stop, then yes he could become a monster. At the moment though, he’s a child who needs help. He was very hurt you aren’t talking to him right? That’s good.

I understand you dont like him at the moment, but I think you should have some dialogue with your son. Why was he stealing from you? We can venture all sorts of reasons, but I think it’s important you hear it from him. There’s myriad things to talk about.

In summary, it’s a difficult situation, but nothing that cant be overcome with some tough love, honest dialogue, and a warm touch. Sending good thoughts/vibes/prayers your way.

96

[QUOTE=magellan01]

Was this necessary? “Batshit insane”?
[/QUOTE]

Most parents would rather have a shitty kid than a dead one. Yes, sending your kid of to war in hopes that killing foreigners will somehow set them on the right path is nothing sort of batshit insane.

97

[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
First of all, unless he is an authorised user of the card, he was committing credit card fraud, and you should be able to recover your money from the banks involved, which will go a long way toward restoring your credit. IF you are willing to pursue it, which you don’t seem to be.
[/QUOTE]

If her cards work like mine (the ones I hold and the ones I work) she’s going to have to file a police report before they’ll do anything. Since that appears to be off the table, she’s on the hook for it.

98

[QUOTE=DigitalC]
Most parents would rather have a shitty kid than a dead one. Yes, sending your kid of to war in hopes that killing foreigners will somehow set them on the right path is nothing sort of batshit insane.
[/QUOTE]

Can we stay on topic people? Not junior moderating, just making a request.

99

[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
And I wonder how, after THIS thread, you can possibly make a statement like this.
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps my definition is incorrect but it seems to me I must be party to allowing the action to be taken advantage of. I may have spoiled the heck out of him but I certainly didn’t hand over all that money.

In addition, I am not going to take advantage of the situation by claiming fraud and making the vendors pay for my son’s thief. They have to be paid and he WILL be paying me back each week.

100

[QUOTE=Foxy40]
No one has ever taken advantage of me.
[/QUOTE]

Well, there were your employees who kept mooching interest-free loans. I remember that thread, and you were definitely complaining about being taken advantage of by one of them.