[QUOTE=Autolycus]
I live right down the street from Rollins, literally a three minute walk. I dont go to Rollins, but I have friends there. I was just thinking maybe there is some way I could hang out with your son, you know, get an impression of him from somebody who is not involved with this issue. Eh, it’s a silly thought but I thought I’d throw it out there.
[/QUOTE]
That’s very nice. However, if he offers to take you out for a nice dinner for helping him out, please decline. 
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Well, there were your employees who kept mooching interest-free loans. I remember that thread, and you were definitely complaining about being taken advantage of by one of them.
[/QUOTE]
Right which is why I stopped giving them. She pushed and ruined it for everyone because I would not allow myself to be taken advantage of. I no longer give loans.
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
I hope you all don’t prove me wrong about stealing from others. I just don’t see it.
[/QUOTE]
From the picture you have painted, I doubt you’d really have to worry about him stealing from others. He sounds like a scared little rat, he’ll pilfer where he thinks there won’t be consequences, but I think he’s smart enough to avoid anything where there’s a real legal threat. Also I agree that this isn’t a substance issue, it’s just that he has been living the dream life of a 10-year-old probably for 10 years now, and has never even detected the whiff of a consequence.
If it were me, the next time he’s out with his girlfriend, I would get busy a-locking, and execute plan thusly:
This is a lot better than what the little lout deserves, and it is a lot of hardship on you. Unfortunately this is how it is when a kid needs some serious correction and the parent doesn’t want to involve the law. According to your description, he’s not a bad kid, he’s just never had any boundaries or firmness, ever, so I think this approach will work. If not? Well, you will officially be able to say that you tried your best, and you will have a storage locker full of really cool stuff.
This 15 year old girl steals fives and tens from her parent’s wallets to board a plane to see her boyfriend and they have her arrested. I am sorry, I think that is a cruel thing to do.
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
This 15 year old girl steals fives and tens from her parent’s wallets to board a plane to see her boyfriend and they have her arrested. I am sorry, I think that is a cruel thing to do.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe she will learn a lesson, and become a responsible young adult.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
This is what I was coming back to suggest. Collect all the stuff and make HIM sell it on ebay (supervise it, so you know he’s doing it), and set up your own PayPal account to collect the cash.
(Your entire post was great, eleanor!)
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I seem to be better at doling out advice than I am at using it (not that I have this problem or anything like it, but I definitely have some quasi-spoiled children). I did make my daughter return some nailpolish she had “accidently” put in our cart at Target (and it wasn’t paid for). She was 3, and I marched her right back into the store (carrying my infant son at the time, in the rain–yes, it was a PIA). She never tried that again. Some of her friends steal from stores now–an ugly behavior at any age. At 3, she didn’t quite understand–at 17, they do… However, my kids can also display a sense of entitlement that worries me.
Foxy–Saying what I suggested would take less than a minute and might just head off any self-pity he may be harboring. I would also be wary of his GF right now–unless she’s a saint, she’s probably either making him feel worse or enabling his pity party. No, I’m not sure he’s having a pity party, but if you continue to give him the cold shoulder, without explanation, it will go that way. He will start to minimize what he did and maximize your “harsh” treatment of him. I’m glad you went over the finances with him, but IMO, he still clings to that Mom=bottomless ATM thinking.
You’re not a bad parent, Foxy–but you do face a bad problem.
I wish you the best of luck with this. I think you made some assumptions re your son’s judgement (ie, academic performance translates into life skills) that almost any of us could have made. He did take it to extremes and therefore needs to pay extreme consequences.
I’d tally up the amount in my purse daily, and I’d check my balance daily.
I thought you could contest the charges in writing and if found that you didn’t make them, you’re only on the hook for $50 or something. This happened with my husband’s card once, and we didn’t have to file a police report (we didn’t have someone stealing from us over a period of time, though, either). And just because you get your costs down doesn’t mean he’s off the hook for the amount he stole. Even if you did get the balance down–I would still make him pay it all back to you.
I don’t think the military is a viable solution at present–this kid’s in college. I say give him this one chance–if he steals again–time to think about the Armed Forces (it has straightened quite a few kids out).
Your thread title is correct, Foxy – through a combination of lazy discipline and sheer inattention, you created a monster. But at least you got something for it in return: a much easier time parenting (up 'til now, at least) than you otherwise might have had. It’s up to you to decide whether you got a good deal. I doubt that your son or your community will end up profiting by it. I wonder if your realization of this bargain isn’t an important part of your reluctance to involve the outside world (be it psychiatric, penal, or military) in possible solutions – is it that you wish to spare your son from condemnation, or yourself?
In any event, your current efforts seem likely to produce a more resentful monster who finds it more difficult to victimize, well, only yourself. I find this to be slightly unneighborly of you. If the monster decides to find prey elsewhere, expect a visit from torch-and-pitchfork-bearing villagers.
I offer some hope: few of us have the same personality in maturity that we did at nineteen. But one reason for this is that we are socialized by outside forces as well as by our parents. If you shield him from the former even as you decide to pick up the reins you dropped – how many years ago? – the maturation process will continue to be stifled.
I taught my son to ride a bicycle by using training wheels. You taught yours to be a thief the same way – by making it easy, and by being there to catch him when he fell.
On the first page you mention that you aren’t sure if he purchased the Wii with your cards or just games for whichever system or who got him what for christmas or if he spent his $500 himself on it.
I understand that there are so many new systems and games coming out anymore that it’s hard to keep track of them. I just don’t understand how it went unnoticed that there was more games or more systems. And they do look different and I don’t bother to tell them apart.
My kids finally got their first ps2. The only game system they have. They have brought other systems into the house that they borrowed from friends and I question them on where they came up with it. I also know what games they have and if I see a new one I question it.
Not because I don’t trust them, but I want to make sure that if it’s borrowed it’s taken good care of and I also like to know what my kids are into.
I don’t censor much of what my kids read, play, watch but I also know what they are reading, playing and watching.
My children are 18,15,16,12, and two 10 year olds. I have a foster daughter that is 23 and I work with a youth group of over 200 kids with skateboards.
I guess what I’m getting at is even though I am busy with my children and other peoples children, I still am on top of what they are doing from day to day.
We discuss things at the dinner table and sometimes we will sit in one room or another and just chill and watch movies, or have great discussions. I know more about skateboarding than I probably should and if I don’t they take the time to explain it. (rambling I know)
You have said that you two used to be close. But I’m wondering when you stopped being close, or maybe you might not have been as close as you thought you were? I’m not sure I understand how your son kept popping up with new stuff and nobody noticed.
Also you recently sat him down and explained the way credit cards and bank accounts work and why you were short at this point in time.
I’m going to make a good guess that he already knew these things. Around here we have something called Junior Achievement where business people come in and show students how to run businesses. Things like writting checks, credit, and bookkeeping. They do this from grade school up to high school. And many schools teach this stuff in math or business law.
He might not have known you were short at this point in time, but as for not knowing how these things work?
I sincerely hope things work out for you and he grows up soon for your sake.
There have been a few people sharing some of their storys about how this situation can go very wrong.
[QUOTE=Foxy40]
This 15 year old girl steals fives and tens from her parent’s wallets to board a plane to see her boyfriend and they have her arrested. I am sorry, I think that is a cruel thing to do.
[/QUOTE]
Different people have different parenting styles, as you can see from the assortment of advice people have been giving you. You may think it’s cruel to call the police, others think it would have been cruel not to report a crime so she can face the consequences. I don’t think you’re exactly in the position to make these sorts of judgments on parenting styles.
[QUOTE=Kricket]
On the first page you mention that you aren’t sure if he purchased the Wii with your cards or just games for whichever system or who got him what for christmas or if he spent his $500 himself on it.
[/QUOTE]
Can’t Foxy40 just check her credit card statements and see if anyone charged a Wii to it? It seems pretty straightforward to me-- look over your statements for the period of time in question. Anything you didn’t buy yourself, he bought. Get out a calculator, tally all those items. That is the tab that Warm-Hearted, Sensitive Son now owes Mom. End of story, end of 
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Can’t Foxy40 just check her credit card statements and see if anyone charged a Wii to it? It seems pretty straightforward to me-- look over your statements for the period of time in question. Anything you didn’t buy yourself, he bought. Get out a calculator, tally all those items. That is the tab that Warm-Hearted, Sensitive Son now owes Mom. End of story, end of
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about your statements, but mine only show the name of the store processing the charge, not the purchased item. And if the store name is “Target” or “Best Buy” or another large department store, he could have bought just about anything.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
I don’t know about your statements, but mine only show the name of the store processing the charge, not the purchased item. And if the store name is “Target” or “Best Buy” or another large department store, he could have bought just about anything.
[/QUOTE]
You’re right, it doesn’t specify the purchase, but this is a high ticket item. How often was he spending $250 + there? I guess the games are about $50. If she counts up the number of games he has plus the console and whatever electronic devices are new in his room since this whole thievery started, and compares it to the total charges at the game store, she should have good idea what he bought. She said he went to the same couple of places over and over, so it wouldn’t take a ton of detective work to figure it out. I would be disinclined to give him the benefit of any doubts, either. The kid doesn’t actually HAVE any of “his own money,” at this point.
How is that going to work? There is no difference on the statement between buying a $250 game system, or 5 $50 games, or 25 $10 CDs. Thrown in several stores and many purchases, and well… it’s just impossible.
And anyway, who cares? All that matters is the amount of money he charged against the cards, which is how much he will have to pay back. It doesn’t matter if he stole the money to buy a game, or a washing machine.
Kick him the fuck out and sell all his stuff on ebay. Don’t let him take anything but his clothes with him. He can go to his Father’s and get straightened out or live on the street.
Don’t involve the cops though, there is nothing more horrible than bringing the state between you and your family. It happened to me when I was a kid, my step-mom loved using the cops as another piece of leverage in our fights. My Father thought that I wouldn’t speak to him ever again after I moved out. It was a generally traumatizing experience. It’s not worth it, sounds like the Father is the best bet.
Does it matter whether he bought the Wii with his $500 Christmas money or Mom’s credit card? Either way, Junior owes Mommy a good deal of money and should sell the Wii to repay his debt.
To all you clamoring for police involvement.
Stealing credit cards is a pretty big crime. This kid sounds like he’d be passed around for cigarettes in jail, particularly if they found out what he did. “You stole thousands of dollars from YOUR MOTHER?!”, this guy would be licking boots while being fucked in the ass. Sending him to jail isn’t really the way to straighten him out. I think his Father has exactly what he needs.
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
How is that going to work? There is no difference on the statement between buying a $250 game system, or 5 $50 games, or 25 $10 CDs. Thrown in several stores and many purchases, and well… it’s just impossible.
[/QUOTE]
I think you’re pointing out something important, which is that Foxy40 should go through her son’s stuff and take away anything he bought with her money without her consent. EVERYTHING. This will mean that she has to invade his privacy in a major way, but that’s too bad-- she should know exactly what’s going on in her house. Maybe if she does this, he’ll think twice about stealing from her again because she’d notice if tons of expensive new merchandise is coming in her house (she might also find his pot stash; I’ll bet it’s a lot bigger and more expensive than she thinks). He’s lost the right to have private, personal property anymore.
Fuck him and his property. Who cares where he got his consumer goods. He owes you that money, and you’re not going to get full market value. Sell everything he has that isn’t a family heirloom or special somehow. Sell every video game and game system that he has, all of his baseball cards, and all of his comic books. Sell everything until every last dime is accounted for.
Wow. I really have to agree with what mswas said. What your son has done is so outrageous that dead serious response is required. Especially if he doesn’t even accept the fact that he’s really stolen anything. At this point he really must learn that he doesn’t have any “moral free” zones. Kick him out and see if he takes the same bet on Dad’s infinite forgiveness.
I don’t know about returning any of his stuff. Getting receipts and all that crap together probably wouldn’t be worth your trouble. Confiscate the frigging Wii anyways.
Good luck with whatever you do. This is definitely tough stuff.
ETA: I meant specifically posts 114 & 116.
foxy40 Make him read this thread.