Gee thanks, drop. Attitudes like that are why I still hate my parents, and I’m 25. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR READING SOMEONE’S JOURNAL. PERIOD. If you do that, you’d better DAMN well expect the trust between you and your child to be broken.
Yes, my mother read my journal. To this day, she swears she didn’t know what it was. To this day, she thinks I’m overreacting to be upset about it. To this day, I have not forgiven her.
hugs to hyper - only advice I can give is to sit down calmly and explain how this makes you feel. Don’t do what I did and turn it all inside. Doesn’t help anyone in the end.
I completely disagree. If you want to teach your children trust and respect, you’ll have to give it to them in order for them to learn it. I understand the importance of parents knowing what their kids are up to: which is why I stated that you have to respect the rules of your parents while you live with them.
My point was: I don’t think it’s necessary to snoop through your kids’ journals or personal possessions UNLESS you have already attempted to have a conversation and were met with lies and deceit. “I noticed something seems to be going on with you and I want to talk about it.” If the child refuses to engage and be up front about whatever it is the parent is worried about, then fine, snoop away. Talk first, reach out, then snoop. Snooping up front is unacceptable and teaches really negative ways to deal with conflict. I am now, as an adult, a master manipulator, because my dad was constantly looking for shit I might be up to – and he used very surruptitious methods to glean information. He’d make a great CIA agent.
BTW, I am not a minor or anything close to a teenager. I simply have a memory and clearly recall my father pulling this same crap on me. Guess what? Now that I’m an adult, I don’t trust him with information about my personal life and he remains mostly clueless about who I am as an adult, what interests me and how I spend my free time. Because he betrayed my trust as a kid, didn’t believe me when he started conversations and I actually told him the truth, and snooped around behind my back. Consequently I don’t trust him or any other man who asks personal questions.
As parents, I think you need to consider the long-range ramifications to this type of parenting. On the flip side, (to push my point even further), my mother was the opposite. I told her (and still do) everything I do, who I’ve been with, what we did, how and why. Her policy was “As long as you don’t lie to me, I will bail you out of any trouble you get into. If you lie and expect me to believe your bullshit, you are on your own.” The reason this works is because we have MUTUAL TRUST for one another and she respected my rights to privacy as an individual, regardless of my age. She never treated my like chattel.
However, I think this sort of thing starts when your kids are two, so if you haven’t adopted an open discussion policy already, there’s no way your children will be straight with you as teenagers, so now you have to snoop on them.
Hyper, how old are you? At some ages, it’s OK for a parent to go into a kid’s room, but the older they get the less OK that becomes.
Trust me, I know there’s rational explanations for having condoms other than having sex. I went through college with condoms in every drawer in my dorm room, and I wasn’t using them for sex–our college was real big on the safe sex thing and they’d throw them on your tray at lunch, hand them to you in the halls, slip them under everyone’s door, you name it. I think most wound up being water balloons or, in my case, art project material.
But your journal–regardless of age, it is never okay for your mother to read that. The only exception would be if she felt your life was in danger and reading it would give her a chance to see if you were suicidal, where you’d run away to, etc. Other than those extreme cases, she has absolutely no call in doing that.
I hope things get better. I know that once you move out, life is tougher, but the privacy is simply wonderful.
Like cher I too have small children that I can carry away from anything harmful. I hope to have a very open relationship with them throughout their life so they can come to me with anything, regardless of what it is. I don’t want my kids to be afraid to talk to me the way I was afraid to talk to my parents.
My mother is extremely religous, which is fine but she really tries to push it on me at times and I don’t like that, and her morals are very different from mine. Her sex talk to me consisted of “Don’t do it 'till you’re married.” We never talked about drugs, drinking, sex, boys, kissing, hair, makeup, etc. Everything I learned I learned from my friends or by experimentation, which is good to a certain degree but I really could’ve used some parental guideance. I don’t want my children to feel the way I did growing up.
I think your mom was wrong in reading your journal and was a little wrong in going through your things. I say a little wrong because for one thing, she was probably doing it out of concern. Have you done anything that would make her worry about you? Any behavioral changes, mood changes, personality changes, etc., may have prompted her to go through your stuff. But she should never have touched your journal. Those are your private thoughts and feelings that if you wanted anyone to know about them, you would tell them!
I would definitely set your mother down and tell her how upset you are about her going through your stuff and reading your journal. Be open with her and tell her why you have razors and lighters and broken glass (??) in your bag. You have to let her know that you’re growing up and it’s time for her to put a little trust and faith in you.
{{{{{hypergirl}}}}}
Moms can be real overprotective. Mine does not want me going to the GV Dopefest. She hears those psycho internet killer stories. I am still going.
I get to say that 'cuz I am a grown-up. Job, car, house, whole deal. In the big turn of events, she moved into MY house. Now I can say "I make the rules..." ...then I run.
I have soooo much weird shit in my rooms at home and school because I’m in the art school. Walk through a real art supply store; damn near half the store’s stock can be used in a potentially fatal manner.
There is NO EXCUSE for reading someone else’s journal or diary. To people who really pour their souls into them, journals can be the only safe place to discuss their feelings, away from parents and friends. When you read someone’s journal, you are invading the most precious thing they own. The sanctity and security of it is violated forever. They will never feel secure writing anything down, much less ever tell anyone the shit they’re going through. They certainly won’t trust you ever again and most likely find a way to remove you from their misery [prolly by running away, or leaving when they’re old enough].
My parents trust me to tell them what they need to know. They do NOT go through my room, looking through papers and sketch books. They do NOT remove the pointed sharp metal printmaking tools in my room, nor the cutting knifes for wood and cardboard, nor the rope. They do NOT look through my computer if it’s left on. They do NOT try to find out what websites i go to. They do NOT try to throw me into therapy because they don’t understand the music i listen to or the art work I make.
All they ask is that i leave the door open.
Having privacy while growing up is essential for the creation of a functional adult, who is capable of trusting the people around her/him and therefore capable of forming healthy relationships. [you DO want to see those grandkids at least once in their lifetimes, right?]
There are few good reasons to carry around lighters or razor blades, and ABSOLUTELY no good reason to carry broken glass. By carrying this stuff hypergirl has shown that she is not entitled to be trusted. Is it her mom’s fault because she never trusted hypergirl in the first place? No, that is bullshit. Trust is earned by being trustworthy.
“Her policy was ‘As long as you don’t lie to me, I will bail you out of any trouble you get into. If you lie and expect me to believe your bullshit, you are on your own.’” No, my responsibility is to PREVENT my children from NEEDING to be bailed out. This starts by teaching them responsibility, but I teach them nothing when I believe any crap they tell me. How did your mother know what you were telling her wasn’t bullshit short of not having the cops knocking on your door? That is new-age, feel-good bullshit. It is not my job to have my kids like me, much less love me. It is my job to raise them so that they survive, both as children in my care and adults out of my care.
dropzone, I feel very very sorry for your kids. But I’m glad that you just made me realize that I’m lucky to have had parents that at least understand that I am a person. But this isn’t your thread, so:
hypergirl, your mom is completely in the wrong. She has a right to be concerned, sure, but she has NO right to invade your privacy. I suggest either a big talking to, or get the hell out of that house as soon as you can until they can realise that you’re not their property, you’re their daughter.
dropzone, I will simply second TheNerd and say that I feel very very sorry for your children. If you can’t even start OUT trusting or loving them, then why on earth would you get any back.
Thanks so much for the support people. I was really going crazy last night and it would have been much worse if it weren’t for you people. The reasons I had that stuff, were different. As for the lighters, I like to sit and watch the flame. It calms me down sometimes. One time when my mom was bitching at me really badly I locked myself in my room and stared at the flame for about a half hour until the lighter ran out of fluid. And I felt better. The broken glass I just thought was pretty. It wasn’t sharp enough to be used for anything anyway. The razors were ones that I use to shave my legs and had brought into my room when I was in the mood to cut. I very rarely did anything with them, and she certainly wouldn’t have worried had the same things been in the bathroom. I don’t think she realizes that I wouldn’t have this stuff in the first place if it weren’t for her. She is about the only person that can really make me want to kill myself. I think one of my biggest fears is that I’m going to grow up and be like her. I see everyone’s point that moms worry, but it was more than that. I had given her no reason to worry, she just does this periodically. Whenever she is annoyed at something or someone. Whenever anything goes wrong it’s my fault. And I never make mistakes. Anything wrong I do is done out of pure malice. She makes me think that I’m a horrible person. And since I hear it so much sometimes I can’t help but believe it. Anytime I try to talk to her about what she does to me she starts screaming. No matter how calmly I approach her. I really don’t see anything I can do other than suffer in silence for the year and a half until I graduate and then go as far away as I can.
(Boy, it’s fun to take the devil’s advocate role now and then!)
Sorry, kids, but your legal status is right up there with that of dogs and parakeets. Okay, slightly better. I can’t have you killed for pissing in the living room. But I can read my dog’s diary and I can read yours. It may be TACKY to read your journal, and I have no pressing interest in doing so, but I can and I will if I have a need that justifies it. Finding broken glass in your bag that obviously isn’t there because you stole a tumbler from the malt shop on your way home from school AND when you have a history of cutting is justification.
“The razors were ones that I use to shave my legs and had brought into my room when I was in the mood to cut. I very rarely did anything with them…” (emphasis mine Um, people, is this an indication that her mother doesn’t trust her ENOUGH? Would you fault her mother for not being trusting if hypergirl took one of those razors to her wrists? Grow up and think from her mother’s standpoint for a second.
OTOH, there has to be a better way for her mother to make her point than by screaming recriminations. And I’m open to suggestions for that, too. My daughter’s room is literally shin deep with clothing (“I can’t find anything to wear!”) and crap and I found several used candles in there when I pulled my laptop (“I don’t know where it is”)from her mess (“MOMMY! Daddy’s in my room!” “So?”). No, I didn’t jump to the conclusion that she was shooting up. But her room is a firetrap WITHOUT the candles and I don’t want her killing the rest of us with a fire.
Hypergirl, I’ve vacillated between “what a horrible invasion of privacy” to agreeing with dropzone on a couple of things, but your last paragraph tilted me much further toward his point of view. I can’t sppeak from your mother’s perspective, but just as a father, and if I found items that you’ve used in the past to harm yourself, well, I’d confiscate them, too. (I wouldn’t give a damn about the condoms.) As far as your journal goes, yes, that’s a private area. But if I was worried my son was (or could be) harming himself, then, I’d be very tempted to read it…or have a psycholigical profession read it. Furthermore, if there was anything in there that indicated that he would harm himself, I’d take whatever action necessary to prevent it.
In short, I’d rather have a pissed-off child than none at all.
Someday he might forgive me–maybe not. But at least he’d still be here.
What your mother did may have been (probably was) done with good intentions. I’m relatively sure that she doesn’t intend to simply aggravate you more…that would just worsen the situation. I hope in my heart that, what she did, she did for your safety.
Maybe all of this will act as a catalyst and open up new areas of communication. I hope so. It seems badly needed.
If you don’t expect any back, then don’t be surprised when your children end up like me and fucking HATE you, drop. I HATE my mother for pulling that shit for 25+ years. It’s STILL going on. And NO, I do not, will not believe that being depressed gives a parent carte blanche to invade someone’s life.
I’m sorry for swearing, but I have worked for the last 5 years to rid myself of this shit. And I still can’t.
Falcon, cliches tend to become cliches because they are true, so I don’t feel too bad when I say:
When you have kids you’ll understand me–and my responsibilities–a little better.
I generally stay out of my children’s business. I feel they should have a chance to screw up on their own and that nobody ever learned from somebody else’s mistakes. But there is a BIG difference between standing back, ready to catch them if they fall, and going through life with blinders on, letting a mentally ill child build her collection of razors that she “rarely” uses. To NOT intervene has a legal term: neglect.
Communication has an important place, but hypergirl’s situation was already out of hand before the latest incident. She’s a cutter–mentally ill–and it is her mother’s DUTY to protect her from herself by any means necessary. If that means searching her room and reading her journal, that’s too bad.
This is a pretty fucked up society we have become when a parent’s concern for their children is labeled snooping and spying, coniving and evil. 20 years ago, it was called raising your kids. I’m with drop on this one, I will do whatever it takes to keep my children healthy, productive, and certainly alive. If they end up hating me for it, well, then that is on them, although it is my hope that I do not raise a person to be able to harbor that much hatred in their heart, particularly for family. The more this thread continues, the more it seems to be, to me, at least, more about mental illness, and less about your rights (albiet few, IMHO) as a young adult living in your parents home.
(Oh, and dropzone? I don’t plan to have kids. One, because it could kill me. Two, because I do not trust myself to not put my children through the same emotional abuse that I suffered. So kindly shut the fuck up.)
