TheNerd -
If someone else cares to start one, I will join in. Right now I am literally shaking with anger and tears, so no, I will not start another thread.
Well, three cheers for the Joseph Gobbels school of child rearing. Y’all make me sick. “Oh, I’m so concerned about my child’s well being” Fine and dandy, that’s as it should be. But…using that as a justification for totally violating your kid’s rights as human beings makes me sick. “oh, I’ll read the journal”. “oh, I’ll snoop around”, and y’all wonder why your kids don’t trust you??? You haven’t earned that right, you fucking idiots. I weep for your kids, Drop, being compaired to the family dog. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the REASON that your kids react in such a manner has to do with an entire life of being told that they don’t matter as human beings, they exist at your sufferage? You may get them to 18 alive, but they will be very dammaged individuals who may never find the strength to recover and learn that they are valuable for who they are.
Wish I’d seen either of my parents never mind had a chance to be annoyed with them.
Yours won’t be around for ever at least I never will have that pain to come, make the most of them.
I am cetainly not without sympathy for hypergirl, it is a traumatic exerience, as I know first hand. My mother found, and read my journal when I was 15 years old. It had some very, very personal passages in it. I simply never imagined anyone would read it, and I can still recall to this day the feeling I had the day I came home to her sitting at the kitchen table, with a look that could have killed me, and my journal in her hand. It was as if the doors to my soul had been ripped open. I felt exposed, I felt violated. (The irony here being that now my journal is online for all the world to read.)
I was very angry with her. But, she is my mother. And having children of my own helps me to understand why she may have done what she did, although honestly, I never really held it against her. How could I, I was raised being told I was her property, to do with as she pleases, and if I listed in detail what some of those things were, well, that’s another story. But I don’t hate her, she did what she had to, or at least what she thought was right. And I like the person that I am today, so in my eyes, she did her job.
You know the old saying, what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger, and certainly wiser. Live and learn.
Can I make a suggestion, hypergirl?
When I was younger, there was a point in my life when it was difficult to talk to my mother without voices being raised. I understand your situation, and I empathise whith what you’re feeling. I’ve been in the same situation, and I know how violated you feel when someone snoops in your personal things. It happened to me, and to this day I can still remember the rage I felt.
My suggestion is this: If you’re in the same situation, where it’s difficult to talk things out, write your mom a letter. Start out by saying that even though things have been difficult, you still love her. (And dispite all of the shit that you’ve been through, I’m sure you still do.) Tell her that you know she was only snooping because she loves you, and wants to make sure you’re safe. That said, explain the items that she found. Try not to make any accusatory statements, no matter how tempting it is, because that will only make the situation worse. The point of this letter should be to make things better between the two of you, not irritate the situation. Above all, apologise for hurting her with what she read in the letter. You don’t have to say you’re sorry for what you said, only that you’re sorry it hurt her, because you never intended that.
Don’t make any demands, just tell her how you feel, and say how you would like things to be. It might help her to understand where you’re coming from.
This might help your situation. If you find that continualy, you can’t talk to her, consider keeping an “open journal” that the two of you can write back and forth to one another. It might help open the lines of communication.
Good luck, hon.
This year has been pure hell for me in the family area, but I’ve learned a lot from similar experiences and I guess I’ll share.
My mom is a worrier and an overreacter, and I’ve decided that she has a lot of issues that I don’t want to think in depth to. When we get into a disagreement, there is absolutely no turning back. The smallest things set her off and we get into a full blown arguement where I sit there and cry while she says the most awful things I have EVER heard anyone say. I’m sure your mother has a list of her own, but a few of my Ma’s include “I have never seen anyone who hated me so much in all my life,” or “God, what did I do to deserve someone like this?” and the one I hate most, “You were an accident.”
Most of the replies here were concerned with the reading of your diary and the invasion of your stuff. That’s mainly what your first post was geared to, but I know that those emotional bombs mom can drop are the worst. She fucked me up mentally for a bit because all I could think of was the way she was and a way to not be like that.
My advice to you is to just let her flip out at you so she can get it out of her system. If she says those things to you, she’s a (temporary) nutcase and the best thing for you to do is not pay attention to the things she says. If your mom is like mine, there is no such thing as calmly talking about some important issue, so just mutter out your defense at first and then if she won’t accept it, let her think she’s won and do your best to forget about the incident. You’ll be okay. 
I’ve got to back dropzone on this, to a point.
My kids are small, so I don’t really have to worry about their privacy yet. But when they get older, if I believe that they are engaging in dangerous or possibly illegal activity, I will do whatever I can to stop it. I intend to start by talking to my kids, and keeping the lines of communication open. But if that doesn’t work, and I feel an invasion of privacy is warranted, I will do it.
I don’t know if I could ever bring myself to read my child’s diary, though. While I don’t believe that my mother ever read mine, I know how totally violated I would feel if she had. Going through stuff is one thing, but going through thoughts is something else entirely, and it is a line that I do not think I could cross.
But if I suspect my child is doing drugs or engaging in other harmful or illegal activity, and I can’t get him or her to communicate with me verbally, then yes, I will go through his or her things. Not because it is my right, but because it is my duty.
Don’t misunderstand–this is not something that I would take lightly, or do just on a whim. Privacy is important–I absolutely cherish mine, and I will give my kids as much as I can. But it is also my job to see to it that they survive into adulthood. If I think that they are engaging in behavior that might endanger their survival, it is my duty as a parent to put a stop to it.
I should probably add that I love my mom with all my heart and I can’t imagine losing touch with her after I graduate and move out. I just don’t want to live in such close quarters with her.
Well, I found out why she went through my room. She thought I had candy. Yeah, and that’s a perfectly legitimate reason to ransack my room and read my journal. She had no suspicions, because contrary to some people’s (dropzone’s) beliefs, I am not mentally ill. I first cut about a year ago, and I have done it less than 10 times since. And they are never deep and they never bleed, so it really isn’t a big deal. But that’s another thread for another time. And the main reason that I do it is because my mother treats me like shit. And not just because she searched my room, that’s just what set me off this time, but because she is constantly condescending, she treats me like I am two years old and the tiniest little thing will set her off. She yells, she screams, she throws things, and I hate to pull this out, but I have to counteract everyone’s “she’s only doing it because she cares about you” arguement, she used to hit me when I was little. She stopped when I started getting old enough to fight back. I don’t know why I’m saying this on the boards, since I don’t think I have ever told many of my close friends. I guess it has just never come up. I hope no one gets mad at me for it.
Now I can understand why you’re so honked, hypergirl.
The reason you just stated (having candy) is not a serious offense. Hell, in my book, it’s not really even an offense, unless you’re not supposed to have it, for some reason.
But the cutting? Regardless of how insignificant you may think it is, it isn’t. It’s dangerous, and you need some help in stopping it. Your mom needs help too, IMHO. Her treatment of you sucks, and she needs to learn how not to treat you that way. Then maybe you can start to get your relationship on track.
NO.
NO.
…and… NO.
As a I said before, journals are sacred. I, personally, don’t keep one, but my sketchbooks are my equvalent. It’s MORE than tacky to read someone’s journal, it is wrong, NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE, OR HOW OLD THEY MAY BE.
There are few justifications:
1- strong suspicion, corroborated by other evidence, that your child is doing something categorized as felony or larceny: drugs[selling or using], alcohol, theft[cars etc.], and running illegal immigrants over the Mexican border.
2- strong suspicion, corroborated by other evidence, of suicidal tendencies.
3- strong suspicion, corroborated by other evidence, that your daughter is pregnant or is planning/had an abortion.
Read a diary? No way. Unless in the remote possibility that there was a clear signal that things were sERIOUSLY wrong and I was unable to discuss it with my child. If I was in absolute terror my child was going to suicide, then yeah I might look at a diary. Same goes for my SO and any diary he might keep. However I doubt I would let my child know that I had read the diary. I certainly would not use the diary as ammunition in a fight.
I gave my stepdaughter condoms ;). I will do the same for my sons when the time comes. I had access to birth control with my parents’ consent from very young. I’d rather them use birth control than get pregnant or get a disease.
Check for razors and broken glass? If I knew she/he was a cutter, there’s a chance I would look. I have no idea WTF I would do if I found anything though. Removing it is gonna do jackshit. But before that, I would hope to have in place lines of communication. We were lucky enough that despite years of stepfamily angst, things were pretty OK in the teenage years.
Parenting is hard. Being a teenager is hard too though.
Candy??? WTF??? I agree with Persephone that some help with the cutting and with your relationship with your mum would be useful. Candy though??? Wow.
I do agree that a parent has a right to go through a child’s room and personal belongings, up until the age of 18.
But to read your journal??? No. A journal contains a person’s most private and intimate thoughts, which you should not be forced to share with anyone you don’t want to share them with.
{{{{hypergirl}}}}
Your mother should be ashamed of herself for reading your journal.
Sometimes folks get bored & read journals. Kids should know that & either not write risky things or not keep the journal where the folks can get it.
I sure would take condoms away from my 12 year old daughter, though.
“Are you my dad? WTF?”
If you tell me who your mother is, I might better be able to answer this as there are few loose strings in that area for me.
Well…with my mom-she would snoop in my room, hoping I had chocolate, if she had a chocolate attack, so she could eat it.
I do the same thing to her! 
All is fair when chocolate is involved.
Palmyra
I wouldn’t see a possible pregnancy/abortion as grounds for reading a diary. Certainly if I suspected a child of mine had an abortion and chose not to tell me, I wouldn’t be snooping around their diary trying to find out. I’d either ask or hold my peace until they were ready to tell me. Which might be never.
A hidden pregnancy - I certainly wouldn’t snoop in a diary for that one. I’d ask straight out. But then I would hope that they would be OK with telling me in the first place. I’ve been through a pregnancy scare with my dsd. I was so grateful that she told me but things had to be OK in the first place for her to be able to tell me IYKWIM? Pregnancy is gonna be obvious sooner or later. Reading a diary to find out is just a total betrayal of trust.
As a parent, I can think of approximately 196 THOUSAND other things to do when I am bored than read my kid’s journal. I’m sure most other parents (hell, probably most other people) can find something else to do as well.
yeah… i know that one’s iffy. pregnancy would eventually become apparent, true. That’s why it’s third on the list…
besides… to be tongue-in-cheek… two items a list do not make… hi Opal.
::hugs all around::
{{{hypergirl}}}
While I can read the parental perspectives with varying agreement and anger, I don’t really think they’re the point. If ths really needs to be discussed, I second TheNerd’s suggestion to move it to another thread.
hypergirl, I’m so sorry you’ve been going through some rough times. Parents are often difficult to deal with, and I’m sorry yours are being less than ideal right now. Best wishes in trying to work things out, or just get through it. ::more hugs, and lots of supportive, happy thoughts your way::
Oh - and side note: I routinely have had broken glass, in varying quantities. It’s often used in combination with or in place of pottery glazes, so during my pott shop semesters, I often had some on me–much like I was often covered in clay. No, that’s not why hypergirl had it, but before jumping to conclusions, realize that there are valid reasons for having almost anything.
hypergirl - please, please, PLEASE, get the book “Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy” by David Burns, M.D., now (pretty please?. It saddens me to see you going through right now what this book describes as the basis for depression. I am hoping that you can use this book to counteract the negative influence of your mother.
Rysdad - sigh People don’t cut themselves because they have glass, they cut themselves because they have severe problems. If you take away the razor or glass, you haven’t solved anything, and you’ve made it even harder for your child to get the help they need. The choice isn’t between a pissed off child and a dead child. It’s between a child that feels confident in coming to you with his or her problems and a dead child. If you want to keep your child from being depressed, read the aforementioned book.
dropzone -
“Trust is overrated” The ability to trust to a certain level is absolutely essential to healthy adult functioning. My ex was unable to trust anyone and it made it impossible for him to have a successful marriage or friendships with anyone. And it caused him major problems at work and in dealing with anyone else outside of work.
“ABSOLUTELY no good reason to carry broken glass.” Oh really? I kept broken glass for a long time when I was a child. It was pretty.
“Is it her mom’s fault because she never trusted hypergirl in the first place? No, that is bullshit. Trust is earned by being trustworthy.” How do you know that hypergirl acted in an untrustworthy manner first? You’re assuming that the mother is acting in an ideal manner and that hypergirl deserves the treatment she is getting. From the mother’s other behavior, it is more likely that the distrusted her daughter long before she had a reason to. At that point - it is the mom’s fault.
“I teach them nothing when I believe any crap they tell me.” You teach them even more strongly that the truth doesn’t matter when they tell you the truth and you don’t believe them. Something that is happening to hypergirl.
" It is not my job to have my kids like me, much less love me. It is my job to raise them so that they survive, both
as children in my care and adults out of my care." Fortunately for you, they will love you no matter what you do. My ex loves his parents despite the years of abuse that he suffered. However, you need to raise your children, not just to survive but to be physically and emotionally healthy. If you do this, they will love you and like you.
“To NOT intervene has a legal term: neglect.” From what hypergirl said in her second post, her mother is emotionally abusive Neglect would be an improvement.
"When you have kids you’ll understand me–and my responsibilities–a little better. " No, I don’t have children. I’ve just known more than my share of people who were abused as children and seen the sorry aftermath. Think about this - most people don’t see the mistakes they made with their children, until their grandchildren come along.
Frankly, if my child was “cutting” or showing other signs of depression. suicide - I would tell them that I was blame and to please come to therapy with me so that we could learn better ways of interacting. And I would promise to do everything the therapist told me to do if they would do the same. I would not read their journal!!! :mad: (Mainly because I know my therapist, and he would tell my I was wrong!)