Anyways, if hyper had been cutting herself with staples, do you think her mom would’ve gotten mad? no. extraordinary things can be done with ordinary items. and if the razor had been in the bathroom, her mom wouldnt have looked twice.
Yes Lauren, you’re right. But that’s not the point. It doesn’t matter what I was using. But the point is that now she knows and she still isn’t doing anything about it. SO how does that help anyone’s arguements who say that it’s for my own good. I’m still not seeing a shrink, the only difference is now I’m living with people who think I am completely nuts.
Well, mine think I’m nuts, that’s why they sent me to a shrink in the first place.
Preface: I certainly had a blessed childhood, my parents, to me, were great. My sister, though, she and my mother often got into screaming arguments, many of which led to my sister staying with friends for days at a time and one leading to my mother leaving for a few days. She is now a mother of 2, with one on the way and they have been getting on much better for years, though they still have disagreements, but I’ve no doubt they would readily say they love and care for each other, something that I was not so sure of ten years ago. Being both younger and a boy, made things easier for me, as my sister had done, and gotten in trouble for, many of the things I later did with no significant consequence. That pissed her off, too. Anyhow, to the meat of it-
I find it exceptionally interesting and telling that it seems to be the people that are actually parents now that are the ones who can see the occasional necessity for an absolute invasion of (the child’s) privacy. I could be wrong, but it seemed to me that the people stating in no uncertain terms that such action is an unacceptable breach no matter the rationale behind it were the ones currently, or in the recent past, on the receiving end of said treatment. I never kept a journal, per se, but I understand the implicit trust one must have that their innermost personal thoughts will remain just that, personal. If the level of trust is such that the child can share, they probably would have, rather than writing in the first place. Sure, some things would still go there (i.e.: tell the folks you tried pot, write that you got stoned to the bejezus belt and had a great time; tell the folks you sometimes speed, write that you took the car well over 120 on some back country road, etc.) The point being that you let them know the general issue at hand, and the specifics might not be the important part, rather just the information that you are involved in some activity. What happens from there depends on what it is you are doing.
I feel I’m rambling a tad, I’ll try to illuminate: [much deleted text, I can’t seem to gel my thoughts here, will try again later][sorry, wasn’t able to]
Moving on: it does no good to simply tell you, hypergirl that so much of the teenage years will suck, but that it really doesn’t matter, that the years to come really will be so much better, but I don’t think it can hurt, so there you go. I know, I’m not quite 28 so I do remember, in scattered bits, what being a teen was like. Life is such an immediate thing during that time of your life. What will, a few years later, seem like minor or inconsequential moments or passing phrases seem to you today to carry the weight of the world. I know that, I do. I’ll not tell you not to worry about it, that things will sort themselves out and in a few years, when you’re older, you’ll see things for what they really are. I’ll not say it because that’s not entirely true. Your life today is important, too, and to try and tell you that it will make sense or that it won’t seem important in a few years is terribly degrading and disrespectful to you, today. I could really go on and on, but instead I’ll leave it with: an issue that seems important to you today, is.
I don’t imagine I’ll have contributed anything earth shattering in this post, but hyper I do hope that you realize that you are more than what others, even your mother, think of you. It is unfortunate that she has taken the abusive route she has with you, and as far as that goes, I have no idea what that may like and I too offer you a listening ear and a virtual shoulder.
One final thing, and this sound so stereotypically after-school-special in my head, I’ve been debating it for a bit, but: I would hazard to say that you love your mother and do care what she thinks, or her words would have no effect on you. I’d further wager that what you want most from her is her approval. A kind word, a supportive gesture or a tender recognition of all you’ve accomplished. hypergirl, whether she does provide this or not, know that you are still a worthwhile and capable person.
I placed the “after-school-special”-ishness: The Breakfast Club*, you just want to be noticed, more specifically, you want to be told you are doing a good job. Not to imply you’re living in some movie-fabricated situation, I’ve no doubt it is very real and very difficult.
Again, I could be 100% out to lunch, and if I’m hurting the general direction of this thread rather than helping or even having no effect, please let me know and I’ll stop.
-ts
So she’s wrong. And a bad parent, but I think that has been established.
What are you going to do? You seem to realize cutting is a bad idea. You definitely know you need help. Will you wait for this incompetant person who bore you to get her own shit together? God, I hope not. But you are far to smart for that. It’s time for you to be the adult–you doon’t seem to have any around to do it for you.
Get the help you need any way that you can. If the school district is offering help, TAKE IT! Talk to your family doctor and enlist the help of a useful and respected adult, one who your mother is kinda afraid of. And don’t be afraid of your diagnosis. It is just words, but words that can objectify your problems and give you the means to fix them.
drop, which law defines children as ‘chattel’? You are not the first person I’ve heard make this statement and I’m aching for a reference.
You said:
I found the opposite. As I grew into my role as a parent, the gray issues started to come into focus - dividing largely into black and white.
hama, being somewhat up to date in the problem lids/parental issues arena, I often hear stories similar to yours. My deepest sympathies and hopes that things work out for you.
[singing]
I made Welfy bluh-ush, I made Welfy bluh-ush…
[/singing]
For the record, my whole family thinks I’m nuts.
Also, interesting observation by thinksnow: (I am thinking snow) my views were profoundly affected by parenthood, and they continue to be. It changed the way I look at everything.
but I’m assuming that anyone who’s got to the third page has been following this fairly closely, so I’ll just address some of the issues raised.
-
Trust Unconditional trust does not necessarily foster healthy, responsible young people. In my own daughter’s case she repeatedly violated the trust placed in her by stealing from the house and lying about where she was going, with whom, and what she was doing. It’s going to be quite some time before I accept her statements about many things at face value, because she has a history of not telling the truth until confronted with irrefutable evidence of her deceptions. That does not mean that we aren’t both working towards re-establishing that trust. It does mean that there are some situations in which I won’t simply accept her assurances until she has established a track record of telling the truth, which I hope will be sooner rather than later.
-
Action Welfy has already said that despite her initial anger, she believes that her mother has done the right thing by taking action. Sadly, hypergirl’s mum seems to be handling the very many issues which need to be addressed by simply getting angry. Anger can be both justified and appropriate, but it’s very sad that hypergirl’s mum doesn’t seem to be willing or able to be a partner with hypergirl in tackling these issues. I’m not sure exactly what resources there are in the US, but I’d guess there would be many organisations which can provide you with a “partner” in seeking help hypergirl, and I hope some fellow posters will list some of them. I know it’s tough feeling that your family doesn’t care enough about your welfare to assist you, but there are ways to get help in spite of their apparent indifference and perhaps it might help you feel happier about your life if you explore them.
A very close friend of my daughter’s parents have taken the “inaction route”. I fully expect one day to hear that their daughter has met her death, either by her own hand or at the hands of another - the child is 15 years old and has had unconditional trust, no boundaries, and an almost unlimited supply of money all her life. This child has been doing drugs (increasingly often), having sex, stealing, lying, truanting school, and engaging in increasingly dangerous behaviour (all of which the parents are aware of) over the last two years. The parents’ response is to give her a 5 minute lecture when they discover her latest escapade, accept her assurances that she won’t do it again, and then give her another hundred dollars or so because they feel guilty about having been angry at her. So of course on NYE, these parents gave said child $50 to go out; said child promptly bought two bottles of Jim Beam, caught a train to a destination 3 hours away, and spent the night having a wild time. At best it’s enabling behaviour on the parents’ part, at worst it’s downright irresponsible abdication of the parental responsibility to protect one’s child from harm. What a pity these people haven’t seen fit to spend the many thousands of dollars they’ve spent on placating this child’s tantrums (did I mention said child sold the TV they bought her for a Christmas present this year, or the $800 bike they bought her last Christmas?) on seeking some help in finding ways to stop the situation escalating.
- The Future Who do you want to be in 5 years time hypergirl? Do you even see yourself as being around then? Are your current actions helping you become that person or they taking you further away from achieving it. What resources can you enlist to help you reach your goals without any assistance from your mother whatsoever (including providing a supportive nurturing environment)? What do you see as the major obstacles to your achieving what you want and how do you plan to overcome them?
These questions are rhetorical; I wouldn’t expect you to answer them in this or any other forum. But considering them is one way of putting the focus back on you and what you need to be happy with your life now and in the future and to take it off your mum - it’s seems like she isn’t going to take any action to help you create your ideal future, so by default the initiative is going to have to come from you (does she know about the boyfriend situation you posted about yesterday?). Fortunately, you have friends in real life, and friends on this board who are willing to help you every step of the way - now all you need to do is get clear about exactly what aspects of your life you want and need help with. 
Hang in there hypergirl.
As my father has found out, if you piss your child off, you will not have any child at all.
You want a cite, huh? Like this was Great Debates, or sumpin’? I’ll show you my cite! I got my cite right here!
Hmmm, let’s see what I can find that can make it look like I’m not pulling it right out of my ass. Okay, but don’t tell anybody I’m mostly getting these from children’s rights sites.
“The justice of a master or father is different from that of a citizen, for a son or a slave is property and there can be no injustice to one’s property.” - Aristotle
“Prior to the 20th century, the law viewed children as chattel, or property, of their fathers (Melton 1983). Although children were certainly valued, parents had full authority to make decisions about raising their offspring. Although children today are viewed as individuals rather than as property, the law still recognizes parental authority over decisions relating to a child’s education, nourishment, medical care, and general well-being (Pelias 1991).” (Copyright 1995 by The American Society of Human Genetics)
“The court notes, however, that children are not chattel…” (NACC Amicus Curiae Brief in Troxel v. Granville, No. 99-138, In The Supreme Court of the United States)
“In his dissent in Troxel, Justice Stevens criticized the majority for treating the grandchildren as ‘chattel.’” (Copyright 2000 by Dahlia Lithwick and CNN)
Okay, maybe kids aren’t “chattel” anymore. At least, officially. But you can see how the fight continues to this day.
So. Those of you whom I’ve pissed off. Will you turn your anger into action, or will you stand around griping about how much it sucks? And will you make an attempt to see things from your parents’ standpoint? There are few ways of making a bigger fool of yourself than to argue without understanding both sides of the issue.
I know of cases where that happened to me, too. Or completely changed color, like drug use and drinking. But most things in my life are a lot grayer than they were when I was a teenager.
I saw lots of interesting colors when I was a teen.
Yes, and isn’t being an honest, forthcoming parent who also doesn’t want Junior and Sis following in your footsteps too closely a treat sometimes? The closest I get is saying, “Don’t be like me,” and not breaking up TOO loudly when Wife transforms herself into St Wife who never did ANY of that stuff. But I reserve the right to roll my eyes in a theatrical manner and explain things a little further when the kids ask me later.
One of the reasons I’m such a dedicated parent is because of what I went through growing up. Never mind someone sneaking through my journal… I was lucky enough if I came home from school and there was a parent even there. My parents split when I was very young and my mom worked 2 jobs to keep us clothed and fed. That didn’t leave much time for parenting. At one point I was huffing glue to get high and no-one even noticed the incredible stench. I was a street kid at 15-16yrs old, dropping massive doses of acid because anything less than 7 hits had no effect anymore. I started cutting at 14 (about the time I started drinking) and continued on and off up until after my first divorce which was when I was like 21 yrs old.
I’m thirty now and in a lot of ways I’ve just barely got my shit together. And the only reason for that is because in my early twenties I had a boss who forced me to expand my thinking.
My ironic point is… I know what you mean. At some point in their life (probably mid teen) I’m going to have to become a hypocrite.
It is my worst nightmare that one of my children follow in my footsteps. I will do anything and everything in my power to prevent that. If it means reading a journal. So be it. If I have to hide monitors in their rooms, fine. Follow them in an unmarked car when they go out with their friends? I’m there if it comes to that.
I’m pretty sure that by being a good parent I can avoid the whole thing altogether. And that is my number 1 priority in life - being a good Dad. And, in the end, I’ll do what I feel I must to give my kids the best foundation for their lives possible - even if it isn’t the most popular course of action.
Thank you relic, I’m going to take that as a sweet compliment. (haha, don’t encourage me, you get more long drawn out posts…like this one)
I have another note on the trust issue. Its not unconditional. Love should be unconditional, trust is a very conditional state.
There was about a year, okay two years, where I could not keep a curfew to save my life. It pretty much boiled down to I didn’t understand the need for one, other than having an arbitrary time at which to call the cops. So, consequently my parents were no longer able to trust me to be home when they told me to be. This is the single issue that we have yet to come to agreement on, the eventual solution was that I became a legal adult and set my own time I’d be home. At no point should they have simply said, okay kid we’ll see you at midnight! and thought I’d be home. We worked hard to try to come up with an appropriate system that everyone could work with. There was no middle ground, but the work kept me safe and not too unhappy with them. I never had to sneak out, because if a party was worth going to, I could convince my parents of that fact. Otherwise, I’d snarl around for a bit, but I’d know they were right. My mom’s a smart cookie, and my taste for stupidity couldn’t really match up against my respect for her and my ability to discern when something is stupid. Which she taught me. (And I ignore when I can)
Parents should create an environment of trust. Kids are still individuals, and untrained individuals at that. Parents shouldn’t behave like idiots, they usually aren’t.
Part of idiot behavior is invasion of privacy. Don’t do anything you don’t want your kid doing in public. If you want your kid to respect personal proterty, respect thiers. There are better ways to keep your kid together than teaching them that you don’t respect them. Keep your eye on the goal, supporting a child through the process that makes a good addition to the human race. Fearful and disrespected children make poor adults.
“Love should be unconditional, trust is
a very conditional state.”
Well, we can’t all be as perfect as you.
A point on which parents are called hypocrites is the whole issue of “when do I release how much information?” As children’s brains develop there are degrees to which they can understand and process what you are telling them. When they are young the answers are black and white–don’t do that. As they get older you can go deeper into WHY they shouldn’t do it. By the time they are in high school you should be able to explain that, yes, you did it, and enjoyed it then, why you now regret doing it, and use that to explain why they shouldn’t do it. A life like dewt’s is a particularly graphic example; so good an example that his kids may have trouble believing it really happened, like some ABC Afterschool Special, except there are plenty of people who have lived lives like that.
except that dewt’s kids have me, mommy, to back up his tales of exploits…as mommy was there with teen-age dewt…and oh, the details I can add…
may they NEVER follow us in those particular footsteps…
::shudder::
So, you two have been through it all and not only lived to tell the tale but are still TOGETHER?!?!? God bless you! You should take it on tour for high school kids to show them that people can work stuff out, almost regardless of the stuff.
We did split up after that first summer. Dylan went on to finish college and tour with the Grateful Dead for a while. I launched into step-parenthood at 16-17 (which was nuts, but saved my life) and went from there, schooling and trying to ‘become’ something. We hooked up again about 6 yrs ago - complete fluke - but that’s a whole 'nuther thread. A real mushy one, but yah, we’ve been through more than a few different versions of hell. Including natural disasters. Heh.
Holy hijack… sorry hypergirl.