I give you all I have to offer, and it's not enough.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I had a long talk with my girlfriend last night after the subject of marriage somehow came up. She had once asked me to never lie to her, so when she asked me how I felt about it I was as honest as I could be.

I do not ever want to be married or have children. It’s a decision I came to a long, long time ago and my feelings haven’t wavered. My feeling is that if two people love each other, they should be together. You shouldn’t need permission from a priest/rabbi/monk/justice of the peace to do this. If things go sour, you should be able to get up and leave, no harm, no foul.

Needless to say, this greatly upset her. Like many women in their mid-20’s, she very much wants to be a wife and mother one day. We’ve been dating for only about seven months, but she says I fit pretty much every requirement she has for her future husband (minus the fact that I don’t want to have kids). She thinks I need to do some soul searching, that I’m just afraid from having watched my parents go through so many marriages and divorces. She seems to have it in her head that she can change my mind.

So my conundrum is this: should I set her free? As long as she stays with me, she won’t find the man who will be able to give her everything she wants and needs, which I can’t do. I really love her, and want nothing more in this life than for her to be happy, and I don’t think that can happen as long as she’s with me.

However, I learned long ago that it really doesn’t really matter what I want.

2

One thing I’ll say for certain, you seem to be one of the most mature and selfless men I have encountered where relationships are concerned. Glad to know I’m not the only one out there.

This is a decision that is a matter of the heart, so leave your brain out of it. Your brain is to be used for matters of the mind. It seems like you already know the difference. Having understood that, you will know what my advice to you is.

3

I think you know the answer to this one. You have no intention of giving her what will make her happy. Not to fault you for that, but it’s not the way you want to do things. She doesn’t want the same things you do. At some point you and she are going to have to part. Will it hurt her less later, when she has put more into this relationship? She thinks you might change when you’ve had a chance to think about it, or when you’ve taken more of a look at your life. Is that likely to happen? I don’t think prolonging this is doing either of you any favors. She needs to be able to find someone who can share her plans and you don’t need to feel pressure to do that. You’re already going separate ways, you’re just doing it together.

4

I pretty much feel the same as you do, but Mr. Athena and I will probably get legally married some point pretty soon (yes, I call him Mr. Athena, and no, we aren’t legally married yet. Been together for 8 years so far, and neither of us are going anywhere).

The big reason we’re getting married isn’t because either of us feel like someone has to give us permission, or any religious reason. It’s security and legal power, plain and simple. I don’t particularly like it, but the way the laws are written, unless we’re married, we have the following problems:

  • I can’t add him to my employer-provided health insurance. Yes, I’ve asked. In some states, common-law marriage is enough. Not in Michigan. He’s self employed, and we pay a gazillion dollars a month for health insurance that’s not even half as good as what he’d get at next to no cost if we were married.

  • Assets: if anything were to happen to him or I, each other’s assets would revert to our next-of-kin. As unmarried people with no children, this will probably be our parents. Um, no. I love my parents, but if I get hit by a truck, my assets should go to Mr. Athena.

I realize there’s legal ways to ensure this is done without getting married, but it’s a hassle, and it’s nowhere near as uncontestable as marriage is.

  • Legal responsibility: If I’m hit by a truck and get brain damaged, I want Mr. Athena calling the shots as to what happens to me, not my parents. He’s my closest relative, and I trust him the most.

I could go on, but the point I’m trying to make is that perhaps your girlfriend is concerned about these types of issues, and maybe you could address them with her. There’s ways around some of them, if she’s looking for long-term security with you.

5

It’s not up to you to “set her free.” It’s up to her if she’s willing to settle for what you have to offer. Obviously, if she really wants to have children and you are really sure you don’t, she must decide whether you are worth giving up this desire, unless you honestly change your mind.

Couple of other thoughts: Nothing good will come of either of you pretending or fooling the other. Not suggesting you would, since I don’t know either of you, of course. But if she were to, for example, become pregnant in spite of birth control methods, what would you do? What would you want her to do? How would you react if she did not follow your wishes in that instance? It is not unheard of for young women in this type of situation to lie about birth control and “accidentally” conceive. It’s also not unheard of for birth control to honestly fail. Only drastic measures such as removal of the ovaries, uterus, or testes, or complete abstinence, are 100% guaranteed. I personally know two women who conceived an additional child after having a tubal ligation. There are cases of men becoming fathers when a vasectomy fails.

Second, it is also possible that one of you could in time become resentful if his/her preferences do not prevail. Suppose she decides to eschew motherhood and in later years comes to resent you, either openly or subconsciously, for preventing her from fulfilling this desire. Or you decide to give in to her wishes, and in the inevitable problems that always occur in any child-raising situation, come to resent her for talking you into this.

Third, (and this is something your GF should think about) suppose, either accidentally or on purpose, she conceives and bears a child. If you decide to quit the scene, what would she do?

Finally, do think seriously about the avoidance of marriage thing. If you are adamant that both of you must remain as free as the wind to pick up and go at any time, you must also be prepared to give up certain privileges of marriage. Not sex, but such other things as automatic next of kin, tax status, and so on. Yes, you can have documents drawn up to give both of you durable power of attorney for health care. In an emergency, you may not have those papers with you. You can specifically name each other as bank account co-owners, insurance beneficiaries. You may run into problems with some retirement and pension plans that permit only a spouse to receive continued benefits after the decease of the recipient. There is a reason why homosexuals want the option to have a legal marriage, in addition to the emotional ones. This all seems cold and unfeeling, but such practical matters have a way of encroaching on the emotions.

6

You really have no say in the matter. She will do what she feels is best for her, and you will have to live with that.

Just as an observation: For longer than you have been alive, I felt the same way about getting married. Until I met my wife. never say never, ok?

7

The love of my life also did not ever want to get married, although in his case it was married again, so the circumstances were somewhat different.

In my case, however, it would have been enough. It was enough. I was happy with him and not so set on getting remarried myself.

But he decided that I would be better off set free, and did just that last year. I am still not happy about that. It was his thought that’d I’d have a problem with not getting married, not mine.

Of course, that could have just been his excuse. I don’t know. But maybe yours should have a say in whether or not she wants to be turned loose. You have to balance that with trying to predict if she will be truly happy giving up her goal or not. If she tries and then hates life later, it’s not a good life for either of you. This is where a crystal ball would come in handy.

Those are pretty big differences to build a life-long relationship on if she is actually so set on getting married and having children as you think she is. But my man was so set on what he thought I wanted that he never did listen to what I actually wanted, and I (we both?) ended up the loser in that situation.

Whichever you do, it will take lots of talk between you. That’s where we went wrong.

Good luck.

8

Chiming in on what Cowgirl Jules said: Remember the movie “When Harry Met Sally?” Her boyfriend didn’t want to get married, so they broke up. Then later he married someone else; it wasn’t that he didn’t want to marry, he just didn’t want to marry her. I have a close personal friend who endured this exact scenario. It’s devastating. And both you and your GF should realize that you may well change your mind later. Unless you’re like 65 or something and maybe not even then.

Again, it’s really her decision.

9

You can’t give her what she wants here, unfortuneately. And even if you try to, there’s a very good chance you might always resent her for that. It’s better to make it very clear now that you’re not going to change, rather than hurt her more later.

I understand exactly where you’re coming from on the marriage thing. I’ve watched my parents be miserable. They don’t talk. They’re still married, because my mother doesn’t believe in divorce.

The got married because my father was moving away to do his residency (he’s a doctor.) My mother didn’t want to go all that way without a ring. Now, my father has acknowledged that they married for the wrong reasons, and should not have in the first place. She also kind of bullied him into having children. Although he got me out of the deal, he really didn’t want kids at all. And now the fact that he has them is another thing keeping him trapped in the marriage. He feels like he can’t just leave my brother.

My poor father was practically in tears as he was saying how much he just misses human contact. He misses getting a hug every now and then from someone other than his kids. Especially now that I’m off at college, and my brother is always in his own room playing x-box, the only really affectionate contact my dad gets is from my dog. I’m terrified to end up like that.

I know that I could be just as happy in a committed relationship as I ever could married. I never intend to get married. (I mean, I’d love the gorgeous princess dress that could go along with the wedding, but I think I could live without it :p). I also never intend to have children.

Could this all change? Sure it could. I’m only 18, and certainly not at an age to even consider marriage yet. However, I don’t think my views here will change. And I plan to be perfectly upfront about all of this in any future committed relationship where this might become an issue.

You shouldn’t let yourself be persuaded to do anything you don’t completely want to do, be that marriage or children or whatever. Good luck with your decision-making, Lord Ashtar. If you want to talk, my email’s in my profile.

10

Did you mention anything about your feelings on this at the onset of the relationship? If you did, then she should not have continued on expecting you to change. If you didn’t, then she has a right to feel upset. Either way you basically have two options from here. One, if either you would honestly be unhappy carrying on things, then it’s time to part ways. Or two, you can both reach some kind of compromise where both of you would be willing to sacrifice something to reach a happy medium. Good luck…

11

I say you should definitely let her go. Someone gets married because they want to stay together even if things go sour. And if you’re together long enough, things will go sour. Being married encourages you to work through the sour part and stay together. If that’s not something you want to do, let her find someone else.

12

I’m curious what your reasons for not wanting to get married are? And a long, long time ago? You and I are about the same age, iirc, so I’m honestly curious.

13

Really? Then get married.

14

No…if things go sour, you definitely don’t want to stay together. That’s the sour part. From that standpoint, *not married * is better. Much less hassle. But I agree with the others about security issues. The legal aspect of so many things carries more weight when you’re married. You can work around it with other contracts, but they’re still contracts. The “one contract covers all” marriage certificate makes the most sense.

15

It’s funny, I’m married and I was just thinking about this. That if I ever got divorced I’d never remarry. Marriage is great in so many ways but it’s also a warped institution chock full of crazy compromises that only benifit the marriage but not the people in it.
I know people who are divorced but since have entered into long term relationships without getting married and they seem to have the best of both worlds. They’re exclusive to eachother but also somehow have more personal freedom. That’s probably because they don’t live together. It can also be that they don’t sweat the small stuff this go-round. Can anybody tell that I’m bitter right now?

But on the subject, I say either let her go or change your mindset. You could always get a divorce. That sounds like fun.

16

You took the words right out of my mouth. Being married (In my opinion and experience) is sometimes the glue that holds you together during the “worse” part of better or worse. If you want an easy or convenient out in case things go sour (and I don’t think there is such thing as a relatioship that goes on for a lifetime and doesn’t go sour at some point- it’s just a matter of if the couple can work through that sour part or not), then by all means don’t get married. At least you’ve been honest. The ball is in her court to decide if what she has is worth the sacrifice it requires.

17

This thought process is really something you should be doing with her. Whatever your answer, don’t just present her with fait accompli — tell her what your conundrum is so she can share in its solution. She has as much at stake in your conclusion as you; she deserves to know that you’re thinking of leaving her over it.

We’ve seen threads about regrets before here on the SDMB, most recently the one about getting together for coffee with an old flame (newly widowed and extremely hot and available). It was Mr. Bus Guy’s thread, I think. Evidently the old flame regretted ever letting him get away and had to come back — and she was turned away with a “sorry, too late.”

She thinks you’re perfect, sure, but you’re a little vague on how you feel about her. My advice is to ask yourself, if you ever did change your mind about children and marriage, could you live with knowing she got away? Or would you do it again?

18

It boils down to: you’ve been honest and straightforward - she thinks she can change you to make you want the same things as her - she’s wrong.

Your call.

19

Yes. If she wants to get married and you don’t, she will constantly attempt to wear you down. Every act of kindness will secretly be an audition for “wife”.

What are you going to do? Wait seven YEARS with her nagging about marriage and then decide to break it off?

20

Unfortunately, this is a common problem, especially with younger women. They tend to see the potential in men, instead of just accepting them as they are. It took me 30 years to realize I was doing it, too, and that it had to stop.

I think you’d be doing her a favor by breaking up with her, so that she can move on and find someone who can give her the things she wants.

Your honesty and self-lessness are admirable.