Yeah, this guy may not be a stalker, but he’s an asshole.
And since the OP did get her bag stolen, I can see why she might want be willing to accept a ride to just get home and get the night over with. I hope the guy gets the message.
Now this is the post you should have written as the OP. It’s way more understandable now. I’m glad that you were able to sort it out.
And as other people have said in the thread, please try to be more assertive in the future with other people. That situation didn’t sound pleasant and as others have noted, could have turned out differently, in a bad way. I feel compelled to add: Be safe.
Only dicks play mandolins. Sorry, that’s all I’ve got. I’m glad you’re okay Tracy Lord, hope you resolve the situation to your satisfaction.
Next time I’ll read updates in the thread.
Oh yes, it’s verrrrrry clear who has the problem here. I hardly know which of your grouchy old man ramblings to comment to in this thread, there are so many to choose from! At this point, you’ve posted as many times to this thread as the OP has and it’s all been pretty much the same thing.
So she allowed him to drive her home and use her restroom? Now she owes him some kind of interest? And if a woman is interested in you, you don’t care if she looks like Angelina Jolie or Abe Vagoda, right? Or is it just us terrible women who actually want to be attracted to those we might be interested in?
You seem to want to take up the defense for ugly men everywhere but (like men) women aren’t required to date people find unattractive no matter how much that chaps your ass. Knock that chip off your shoulder and I’m pretty sure that will do something to improve your looks
To the OP: Naturally you realize using the word stalked was wrong for the thread, but it seems to me that in your following comments you backed away from that assertion. It seems like a lot of people wanted to just repeat the “That’s not stalking!” mantra instead of seeing that it had already been clarified. It’s like they didn’t read the whole thread like we’re always told to do.
I’ve been stalked to the point of police action being taken, and your use of the word certainly didn’t offend me. You felt uncomfortable and vulnerable. You admitted that you made an error in judgment so it sounds like next time you’ll know better and do better. Still, trust that uneasy feeling you get but can’t always explain. Your intuition can pick up signals that are hard for your brain to verbalize, especially in a world where we’re taught that we have to be nice to everyone.
Good luck.
I assume I’m one of those grouchy old men (I’m 43, FTR)
Did anybody said anything about her owing him some kind of interest?
What I read is the following : Guy gives a ride to girl. Guy is allowed in girl’s house and hit on her. Girl isn’t interested. Guy leaves. I can’t see anything abnormal or even unusual in the whole situation. However guy is described as creepy and probably a stalker. It just doesn’t make sense except by assuming that girl is abnormally paranoid, and that if someone in the story has a problem, it isn’t the guy.
Then, we learn that guy is much older than girl and that she thinks it’s abnormal for a guy that age to be casually interested in her. Since until this point girl’s perception didn’t make sense, we (or at least I) assume that what made her perceive the situation as abnormal and the guy as creepy is that he’s too old, because that’s the only explanation available.
And who stated that women were required to date ugly men? We (or again at least I) only stated that a behaviour that is perfectly normal for a young/attractive guy doesn’t suddenly become abnormal, creepy, evil and stalking when said guy is old/ugly.
The only explanation wrt the OP perception of the story that made sense to me (and all posters were agreeing she was overreacting) is that she was creped out because a guy that she didn’t find attractive had hit on her.
Women or men don’t have a duty to date unattractive people but they can legitimately be asked to judge their behaviour by the same standard they would use for attractive people, and we’re allowed to be critical of people who seem to make the assumption : “men not to my liking who dare to hit on me = creepy lowlife”, as it appeared to be the case after reading the OP’s first posts.
clairobscur, I was talking to billfish678 which is why I quoted two of his posts and questioned HIM regarding HIS comments and then directed the rest of my post to the OP.
Are we a wee sensitive about anything tonight?
I misinterpreted your sentence :
as meaning there were plenty of “grouchy old men” rambling and that you choose billfish678 only as an example.
No, no, no, no, no. Where do you get this from? Where do you pick up this “owe” that comes back time and time again? Who said anything about owing, debt, duty, obligation, or anything of the sort? What they both said, and what I would have said had I posted before Tracy Lord’s clarifying post, is that the behaviour described in her first post would have been seen as perfectly acceptable and even welcome if it came from a guy she had any kind of interest in, and you cannot possibly know if she has any kind of interest in you without doing something.
Now, her clarifying post does indeed clarify, and makes it clear that the guy was creepy. Not quite to the point of being a stalker, but he was acting in an unpleasant manner and it’s perfectly reasonable to feel creeped out about it.
Maybe I’m unusual in this, but I don’t think either sitting on someone else’s bed without being invited (or asking), or asking for a cup of tea in someone else’s home without being offered, are examples of behaviour that would have been acceptable in someone I found attractive. Lingering – standing – in the hall or another neutral space to see if I wanted to chat, yes, but those two acts seem presumptuous and beyond the threshold of simply gauging interest. I certainly wouldn’t call them “welcome” no matter who they came from.
I’m still not sure how to firmly tell him to leave me alone. I feel like contacting him at all would send a message that I’m interested in continuing to see/speak to him, but that not responding reads like passive approval.
Thanks to everyone who’s responded, and I’m sorry again about not being clearer in my first post.
I don’t think that not responding reads like passive approval, but it won’t prevent him from hitting on you again next time you’ll meet him.
If you really feel the need to tell him to leave you alone, then send him the “please leave me alone” message you mentioned in your first post. He probably will feel it’s coming out of the blues and will go 
, but it will get your point across.
“Thanks/got bag back/want to make sure there’s no misunderstanding/not interested” is more polite, might work too, but it isn’t 100% foolproof and quite a bit awkward IMO.
Or ask your common friend to pass the message that you felt uncomfortable and are not interested, or just wait till the next time you meet him to tell him you’re not interested when he’ll hit on you again.
Honestly, I believe you’re overthinking the issue. There’s no perfect solution, but it isn’t a big problem either. If you wait until he hits on you again, or calls you again, nobody is going to be hurt. If you send a message that comes across as a bit unwarranted, he won’t die. If you send a message a little awkward, you won’t die. If you ask your friend to pass a “give up” message, it’s fine too. Just do whatever you feel like doing and forget about it.
This is stupid. You don’t respond to a guy you’re not attracted to in the same way you’d respond to a guy you are attracted to. So, yes, behaviour that is perfectly normal for a young/attractive guy DOES suddenly become abnormal, creepy, evil and stalking* when said guy is old/ugly and not getting reciprocal interest from the girl. Because it’s creepy when people - young, old, male, female, attractive, ugly - don’t recognise that their interest is not being returned and plow ahead as though rebuffs were come-ons. It’s as though the conversation you’re participating in is different to the one they are having. You say “I have to get up early in the morning”; they seem to hear “Make yourself a cuppa and take a seat on my bed.”. You say “Well… I guess you can use my bathroom if you really have to go…”; they hear “Finally! A chance to be alone together. You are so in, buddy!”. It’s not old or ugly that makes creepy - it’s being oblivious to the other person’s lack of response.
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- I do agree with everyone else on this point - not stalking, or at least not stalking at this point. If sitting outside in his car until her lights go out becomes a regular thing, then we can revisit this.
It did sound like you were overreacting at first, Tracy Lord, but at this point it’s obvious the guy is a dick, and the best thing you can do is to make it completely clear you aren’t interested in being with him. He might walk away muttering that you’re a bitch who plays hard to get, but it’s worth it to avoid a guy like this. He doesn’t sound like the type who’ll respond to being ignored, but you’ve got first person experience and maybe I’m wrong. However, being blunt with him probably saves you the trouble of having to wonder how he’ll take it.
Now wait a darn tootin minute here.
Poster posted situation A
Most people, including many (apparently) women though the poster was was being somewhat of a twit.
Now poster posts situation B, with an extremely different flavor. Which makes her look like a different kind of twit (At least she apologized about). It also makes most everyone else look jerky because their thoughts on situation B are most likely different than A.
The poster can use B to show she ain’t the paranoid she appeared to be with A.
However, she cant use B to show how wrong other posters were because they were responding to A, no B.
And when the young/attractive guy ** doesn’t get reciprocal interest **, either, it’s different? If he keeps insisting it isn’t abnormal, creepy, etc…?
So, we agree : it’s creepy when when their interest “is not returned and they plow ahead”. Whether or not they’re attractive or ugly. It’s not creepy simply because they show interest and are ugly.
Again, I don’t see how it contradicts what I wrote : it’s not creepy because they they are ugly or attractive, but because they behave in a certain way. If the behaviour is acceptable, it’s not creepy, ugly or not. If the behaviour is unacceptable, it’s creepy, attractive or not.
So, I say again “A behaviour that is perfectly normal for a young/attractive guy doesn’t suddenly become abnormal, creepy, evil and stalking when said guy is old/ugly.” Please explain to me again why it is stupid.
Add me to the “Tracy is the psycho” gang.
At this point I think you’re the only one in the gang.
So now you want to make it personal, huh?! :mad:
Of course in my case “dick” would probably rate in the category quasi-affectionate terms of address used by my family… 
Yeah, the guy’s behavior was towards the uncomfortable end of the spectrum. But IMO anyone who chooses to close bars, loses their belongings, and accepts rides home from casual acquaintances who have been drinking, had better work on being better able to handle folks considerably further towards that end of the spectrum than this guy.
I have to agree with most of the other posters who don’t feel that this even comes close to the level of stalking. Being asked out by a man that you appeared to encourage to a certain degree but aren’t attracted to doesn’t make him a bad guy. I don’t mean to sound cold but if you don’t want an stranger in your house, learn to say no and don’t invite him in. I don’t think that it’s all that unreasonable for him to think that hooking up is possible when you’re sitting on your bed with him at 3AM. If he calls again all you have to say is ‘Thanks anyway, but I’m already involved with someone and I’m more comfortable dating men my own age’.
Okay, I’m worried that he won’t just walk away, because he thinks it’s all right to turn up at my place when I’m not there, and to hang around outside staring at my window as I’m getting changed, which demonstrates that he doesn’t have respect for (or awareness of) boundaries around my home and person. This is also the first time I’ve ever lived alone, which might be why I’m reacting so strongly to my home feeling invaded.
Yes, the best thing I’m getting from comments here is realising that I need to learn how to step up and tell people to shove off. Fundamentally I’m afraid that if I say “no” to people who are acting aggressively, they will get angry and hurt me. (I own all the behaviour described except for the passive victim-blaming phrasing of “losing” my bag – someone stole it.)
Karyn, I’m not sure what I did to ‘appear to encourage’ him romantically other than not taking negative action sooner and kicking him out.
billfish678, I’m certainly not trying to prove other posters wrong! I’m trying to figure out what to do, and to sort through my own very strong reactions by talking them with a critical group.