Maybe encourage was too strong a word but letting him in doesn’t do anything to discourage him either. I’ve ended up in some really bad situations before and I’m pretty assertive now and I don’t have any problem finding reasonably pleasant ways of saying no. To me it’s fairly simple. Don’t let strange men into your house in the middle of the night. I can understand being stuck with no money and needing a ride, and not wanting to be rude but the potential consequences to you were a lot worse than being thought of as bitchy.
I just have to ask, though - is the bed the only thing to sit on in your house?
Sorry if my choice of words offended. I was unclear on the circumstances - did someone rip the bag off of your shoulder? Or did you put it down somewhere, only to later learn that it was no longer where you put it?
One time, 25 years ago, I had a brand new winter coat (1 week old x-mas present) stolen from a bar. Spent the rest of that snowy winter bundled up in a variety of sweaters and vests. I didn’t stop going to bars, but I never had another coat stolen. Was that just luck, or the fact that I never again let my coat out of my sight while at bars/parties?
If you are going to bring things of value to public places, then you should consider adopting behaviors to prevent those things from getting away from you.
Hell, yeah. It’s a totally different picture. I still don’t think the guy is a stalker, but he’s a Grade-A dickhead.
My mental image of the guy has gone from geeky mandolin player to “classically good-looking” Nick Tortelli.
And not responding is not “passive approval” it’s denying him even negative attention. Just ignore him and if he turns up like a bad penny, tell him to fuck off.
When I had an expensive leather coat, when I went to bars I’d turn it inside out. The liner made it look like some weird, butt-ugly parka thing that had vinyl sleeves or something. No one ever touched it. It also helps identify your coat at a coatcheck “Yeah, mine’s the black leather jacket that’s inside out.”
It was hung over the back of my chair, which I was mostly leaning against, but I do lean forward quite a bit when I play, and someone (I assume) slid it off the chair during a set.
I don’t bring valuable things to pubs, and I didn’t lose much significant: my credit cards etc. I keep in my pocket, and my mp3 player/recorder (which I use to record tunes I haven’t heard) stays in my case. I only lost my phone, which I’ve since recovered, my weekly planner, the card of a piano accordian player, a few pens and a book I was halfway through, which I’m probably angriest about.
As I’ve said, I realise I made a really stupid decision, and that I need to get over my fear of saying “no” to people who are twisting my arm.
Yes, aside from the three steps up to the bathroom. I don’t think that makes it any less intrusive. Sitting at all was inappropriate, and my bed is still my bed.
I’d agree that sitting down and making himself comfortable is very presumptuous and sitting on your bed is downright creepy so I can see how you would be nervous. I guess I’m more comfortable with being rude because I would have opened the door and stood next to it, said a pointed good night and let the awkwardness happen. I sorry that he got you so upset, though.
Traci, you are letting your anxiety get the best of you. Simply tell this guy that you are not interested him. Period. Then if any of the things you fear come to pass, you can and will deal with them then. You need to train your brain that when you assertively express your own needs and assertively protect your own boundaries that you get the results you need. The more you do this, the less all this bullshit anxiety about I fear this and I fear that will go away.
Go get The Gift of Fear right now. Read it today. Seriously, it is all about this stuff and will really help you out with figuring out how to respond to exactly this sort of situation.
If gig bag, consider putting it under your chair, between your feet, under your coat, etc. If handbag, consider whether you can not bring it and, instead, put your valuables in your gig bag/coat pockets.
Unfortunately, most people experience a couple of incidents like this before they really realize that they cannot assume everyone is as nice as they are. You don’t have to be paranoid or avoid doing most things you want to, but a couple of minor changes can avoid considerable inconvenience such as you experienced.
If you feel nervous, there is likely a reason for it. More importantly you aren’t under any obligation to be nice to someone who makes you uncomfortable.
BUT you have an obligation to be clear - and not make future bad judgments. Tell him that he is not your type. Give him a chance to back off. If your read is correct, he won’t back off even when you say this out loud - in which case you’ll need to be very careful and cold - don’t accept rides from him, don’t go to places he is likely to be without your own friends, don’t drink with him. It may be that as time passes, you discover your initial read was wrong and this is a great guy. But all the information you were giving him were “I’m interested” signs.
Two rules I developed after my own bad time - 1) Never be alone in a private space with a man you wouldn’t consent to having sex with. 2) Never drink without a chaperone unless the former condition is true.
Because there is no universal definition for attractive, or even young and old.
The OP and more detailed follow-up might as well be from The Gift of Fear. She felt somehow violated, that she’d let herself down, and sensed that she’d been in some sort of danger… but couldn’t quite figure out why. That’s classic. ‘Bad vibes’ and ‘creepy dudes’ are often based on clear, rational observation that the observer has yet to process. Like, if he was simply texting or smoking in his car, why would he take off when her light went on? And if she refused tea once, why was he pushing it? Was he testing her to see if a ‘no’ could turn into a ‘yes’?
Listen, I think there’s an excellent chance this guy’s just a bit of a creep who’s gotten lucky with more than a few fellow musicians, even the young, gorgeous ones (honestly, I don’t know where people get the idea hot ladies want millionaires – I know more than a few paired with grizzled, penniless artists), and figured it was worth a shot. There may have been some miscommunication due to booze, age difference and even culture clash. Hopefully you can now brush him off. You don’t have to be nice. And if he persists, give him a very simple, ‘Listen, it’s not going to happen. Ever.’ Then, if he doesn’t get the picture, you have a problem.
IMHO, you were clearly spooked by your own vulnerability and the potential of the position you were in, more than anything. At the very least you can use this experience to guide you in the future. Trust your gut and don’t be afraid to look rude.
tracy - I think the guy was pushy and borderline rude. He went out of his way to drive you home late at night. He chatted with you for a few minutes. Your bed was the only place to sit and he sat. He didn’t pull out of your parkinglot immediately. I very often fiddle with my seatbelt, make a phone call, change the radio station, etc, before I leave. He left a neutral message in your mailbox. You got an oogy vibe and you didn’t jump to conclusions - you took one little step and there conclusions were.
I understand that you’ve backed off on your stalking claim, but I think you also need to realize that this was a guy who was probably interested in you. He’s probably had sucess with women by coming on strong, with many women too submissive to say no. But all you have to do is let him know you’re not interested. “I’m sorry, I really need to get some sleep. You’ll have to leave. Thanks for the ride.” Personally, I wouldn’t take a ride from someone I didn’t know. Letting them into my home wouldn’t be an option (even though I have 2 dobermans).
Why should you contact him again? If he contacts you, tell him you’re not interested. Tell him you’re a lesbian. Tell him you have a 6’6" tall fiancee that carries a gun. Don’t jump to unwarrented actions (“Look, if you’re planning to ask me out, I’m not going”) - you have no idea what his intentions are. And stick to your guns. You don’t have to be nice to him, you aren’t his friend.
After reading everything that has been posted up to this point, I would not recommend sending this guy a written note of any kind. It is too direct and could be interpreted as a sign of interest. At the same time I think it is very important to get a message to him through the common friend you both share.
Tell your common friend what happened and that you really felt uncomfortable by the guy’s actions that night. Have your friend tell this guy that you appreciated the ride, but you are in no way interested in establishing any kind of relationship with this guy. You, in the mean time, just continue to stay away from the guy.
This will get the point across to the guy in an informal way, such that if he really was clueless, it will inform him in a more tactful manner (that being the common friend explaining to him the error of his actions) of his mistake . If the guy still keeps showing up, then be directly assertive and tell him you to leave you alone. If he still won’t, then call the police.
Tracy Lord, I really hope you can get this behind you. I wish you the best of luck.
Repeating the suggestion to buy Gavin de Becker’s The Gift of Fear. It will help you figure out your awful feelings about what you did/didn’t do, and help you respond better in the future.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “gig bag” – I’m not a pro muso or anything, just a session player! All my instrument accessories I keep in my case. The bag was a small black nylon shoulder bag, and like I said, it only had some paper goods and my phone in it. It genuinely wasn’t a big inconvenience to have it stolen, just irritating and upsetting. I accepted a ride home because I didn’t want to wait 45 minutes for a Night Bus, not because I didn’t have my Oyster card. Coat pockets IMO are more susceptible, because at most sessions I go to the musicians just throw all our jackets on a pile in a corner or a chair.
I’ve only heard “close” as a verb in the US, but there I understood it to mean “drink until the establishment closes”.
I should also note to Dinsdale that I think closing a bar is in my opinion much different than closing a family-owned Irish pub whose landlord you’ve known.
Can you explain what ‘interested’ signs I was giving? I would like to never do them again, but I don’t know what they were.
Your rules read a bit strict, but I think they’re both sensible. I can’t remember the last time I had a drink (other than wine with dinner) in a private home instead of a pub, so it’s not something I’m used to having to think about.
I should clarify that “friend of a friend” was meant in a more general “our social circles vaguely overlap” way – he wasn’t introduced to me by anyone in particular.
I’ve put an order for The Gift of Fear (this thread’s sponsor?) on BookMooch, and I’ll let you all know what I think when I’ve read it.
I’m going to break off all contact and not respond, although I haven’t figured out what I’ll do if I run into him at a session again.
Yeah right. I called her a loose woman! :rolleyes:
Anyone should certainly feel free to go anywhere they want whenever they want. And I’ve closed way more bars than is healthy for anyone.
My experience, however, suggests that undesireable things are more likely to occur at some times and places than others, with closing time in the wee hours of the morning being close to the top of the list.
IMO, a person who wishes to minimize the probability of undesired things happening to themself ought to take some responsibility to avoid putting themselves in situations where those things are more likely to happen. But YMMV.
Gig bag = instrument case - often smaller and soft-sided, easier to transport to and from “gigs.”
Not at all a big thing, but you might wish to put ANYTHING of any value - such as your phone - in your case/pocket/etc.
Yeah, there is a whole spectrum. Just observing, tho, that late night/early morning hours and people who have been drinking are 2 of the biggest factors you should be aware of when assessing the probability of something untoward happening.
Even if the guy never came up, you accepted a ride from someone who had been drinking. In itself that is risky behavior - albeit perhaps a low-level of risk. Just staing my opinion that more untoward events occur at closing time of bars (and pubs) than in church on Sunday morning!
Letting him drive you home. Letting him drop you off last (I’m really tired, does anyone mind if I’m first?) Letting him into your house. Letting him into your bedroom. Giving him something to drink…
Since I’m saying basically that different people shouldn’t be held to different standards, I fail to see how what you just said makes my statement idiotic.
Your reasoning is that since there’s no universal definition for attractive, a behaviour that is normal for an attractive guy isn’t necessarily normal for an ugly one? This just doesn’t make any sense.
In a very concrete way : you’re stating that for instance it’s idiotic to believe that an ugly guy could, say, ask a woman out without being creepy; and the reason for that is that “ugly” is in the eye of the beholder How could that even begin to make sense?
What does this mean?