I may be dumping my most beloved sister (long, rambling, depressing)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

I would sincerely like to know how Lindy imagines that she can help you back to the grace of God (or her version of it) through thievery, dishonesty, invasion of privacy, and disrespect of you, your mother, and your wishes.

I can’t see how I could have a relationship going forward with a person who would do such a thing. I guess many of the other responding Dopers are better people than I am. The only thing that I would want her to know is that she had pushed me further away from her God and her church by her appalling actions.

42

Wow. That is completely uncalled for on your sister’s part…it’s making me mad. Definitely estrange yourself for awhile, but don’t cut her out completely just yet. Say something that will stick with her…you’re not out to change her mind (it’s unlikely that you can, from what you’ve said), but you do need to let her know that she did something horrible.

Am I to assume that the pastor knows about the theft of the letter?

This thread has made me think about my mother’s side of the family. They’re fundamentalist Southern Baptist. Some of them are horribly selfish, manipulative, backstabbing…all the while going around talking about what good Christians they are. And anything they disagree with is hellworthy. They just don’t think…I guess some people like having all their decisions and opinions made for them.

43

I’m so sorry to read this, Skald. I can’t fathom what would make anyone think reading your letter was OK. Can’t wrap my brain around the idea.

I hope you can avoid being completely estranged from your sister, but I agree with others who have said you need a break to evaluate how to move forward. And maybe the right answer is for you to be out of each others’ lives, but i don’t think you can figure that one out for a while.

Glad things with Beth have worked out!

GT

44

[QUOTE=Tupug Anachi]
I am guessing that her religious indoctrination is so profound that she was literally being absolutely honest with you about her fears for your soul. There is no way any ultimatums from you about non-interference will overcome the very foundations of her beliefs. I don’t recommend you waste your time trying. Look up fervor in the dictionary and see if her picture isn’t on that page. You will have to make up your mind whether or not you can have a relationship under the circumstances. JMHO YMMV
[/QUOTE]

You put that so much better than I could have, thanks.

My husband’s two sisters left Catholicism and became die-hard Pentecostals. They kept desperately trying to save our souls so much that it became unbearable. We only see each other on occasions like marriages and funerals, and even then, we have to keep biting our tongues.

One of his sisters, J. ,got cancer a few years ago. It was fairly localized, and the oncologist had arranged for her operation within a week. She went to a prayer meeting of some kind, and one of the women told her that she had dreamt that J. was cured. Everyone joined in a sort of joyful celebration of her healing.

In the following weeks, when she felt terrible, she kept saying that Satan was tempting her, giving her pain in order to make her doubt the miracle that had been wrought upon her. Long story short: she went to the hospital finally, and it was too late. The cancer had spread. She died, I believe, in deep sadness. From the time she entered the hospital that last time, she never mentioned God or the Word again.

My husband incurred the wrath of his other sister by organizing a Catholic funeral and having J. buried in Church ground. The other sister and her family are polite with us now, that’s all. That’s fine with me.

Part of my guy will always regret the companionship of the beloved sisters of his childhood and youth, but what can one do?

Sorry about the long self-centred ramble, Skald, I’m really sorry that all this happened to you, the loss of your mom and the deep disappointment in your sister.

45

I would certainly recommend a break in contact.
I would, however, express the caution that it be done either through just removing yourself and avoiding contact, (difficult in a family that gathers with any regularity, I suspect), or, if a declaration is required, simply stating that the conflict is painful and you wish to reduce the pain that you incur or inflict, so separation is best.

I do not have any sympathy for her approach or her actions, but this is the sort of thing that is only exacerbated by an angry closing scene–and if each of you change just enough over the next ten, fifteen, or twenty years to be able to reconcile, any such reconciliation will be that much more difficult if it requires leaping the hurdle of a truly damning (no pun)* separation.

My advice. Worth every dime you paid me for it.

  • (Well, not much of a pun).
46

[QUOTE=MoodIndigo1]
<snip>One of his sisters, J. ,got cancer a few years ago. It was fairly localized, and the oncologist had arranged for her operation within a week. She went to a prayer meeting of some kind, and one of the women told her that she had dreamt that J. was cured. Everyone joined in a sort of joyful celebration of her healing.

In the following weeks, when she felt terrible, she kept saying that Satan was tempting her, giving her pain in order to make her doubt the miracle that had been wrought upon her. Long story short: she went to the hospital finally, and it was too late. The cancer had spread. She died, I believe, in deep sadness.<snip>
[/QUOTE]

Oh fer the love of… it never occurred to them that her wonderful dream was about her going to the doctor and getting the proper medical care? That’s so incredibly stupid it is sad. That reminds me of that joke about the guy on the roof in the flood waiting for god to save him, and not taking the rowboats he sends. I’d have a joyful celebration of healing, too - after I had my lumpectomy and got a clean bill of health.

47

Ask for your mom’s letter back.
If she returns it, ask why she stole it. Initial objections will probably require clarification that she stole it from your mother, not you.

If she has the tact to say she put it back (true or not) give her another chance.

As for the whole scapegoating white people and being more concerned about a soul than a person… cognitive dissonance is probably the only way to get through to her on that front.

48

featherlou is so right about setting boundaries. You will need to decide the circumstances under which you are willing to “enjoy your sister’s company.” She will need to know what those boundaries are. (Putting them in writing is always good.) And most importantly, you will need to consistently enforce these boundaries.

You will need to be specific! Possible boundaries to consider:

  1. Your sister is not to say anything racially disparaging in your presence again. Nothing. Nada.

  2. Your sister is to refrain from giving you advice on your love life.

  3. Your sister is to refrain from giving you spiritual advice

  4. Your sister is to refrain from quoting Scripture in your presence.

  5. Your sister is to refrain from criticizing your religious beliefs.

  6. Your sister is to refrain from promoting her own spiritual beliefs over yours.

  7. Your sister is not to invade your privacy or betray any confidences.

I think that you are not asking of her anything that you aren’t willing to offer her in return. But that doesn’t really matter. Whatever boundaries you want to set are what is important. If she can’t live with those boundaries, then you have to decide what you are willing to put up with. Maybe she wouldn’t see or hear from you again for three months or six months…

These are just suggestions, but setting boundaries have worked well for me – and the other people involved seem to have been somewhat relieved too.

49

[QUOTE=Jeep’s Phoenix]
I guess some people like having all their decisions and opinions made for them.
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Some other examples:

“We can’t do that! It’s not what the procedure says! We can’t change the procedure!” (Ok, who’s in charge of the procedure?) “I am” (Then you can change it) “No I can’t! It’s the procedure!” — has anybody heard whether that third tablet Moses broke was rebuilt by a team of archaeologists and imbedded into, say, cGMP? 'Cos that’s the way some people treat The Procedure.

“We must vote for the Worker’s Socialist Party because we’re workers and so they’re our party!” Said by a landowner’s widow to her grandchildren: a doctor who’s medical manager of a hospital, a college IT professor and the owner of five newspapers. None of the four would be considered a “worker” by the WSP’s definition.
Jodi, I don’t think we’re “better” people. But if, for example, dropping from your life a particular relative who’s Not Good For Your Mental Health (but which you can manage) means breaking up with a bunch of others… you learn to manage. You avoid that particular person as much as possible, but you don’t run from the room if they enter it when you’re visiting someone else. And sometimes people even change their mind.

50

My deepest sympathies on the loss of your mother. I wonder what she would have said about all this?

I’m with nashiitashii and SmartAleq on this. There is also something I’m very curious about. On what premise does your sister maintain that it’s impossible for black folks to be racist? It’s just that I can’t think of one plausible argument someone could use to support this. My understanding is that racism is intolerance of/hatred towards those of another race than one’s own.

51

[QUOTE=djinni_sequoia]
My deepest sympathies on the loss of your mother. I wonder what she would have said about all this?

I’m with nashiitashii and SmartAleq on this. There is also something I’m very curious about. On what premise does your sister maintain that it’s impossible for black folks to be racist? It’s just that I can’t think of one plausible argument someone could use to support this. My understanding is that racism is intolerance of/hatred towards those of another race than one’s own.
[/QUOTE]

Mind if I jump in here? (If you do, just skip to the next post. :))

My guess is that Skald’s sister is somewhat similar to my mom. My mom is Vietnamese, and has hang-ups with several other ethnic groups, including, but not limited to: blacks, hispanics and middle easterners. However, she insists she isn’t racist, simply because, to her, someone who’s a minority can’t be racist. Racism, to her, is prejudice against minorities.

Not saying it makes any sense, only that it’s widespread. :rolleyes:

52

[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
Mind if I jump in here? (If you do, just skip to the next post. :))

My guess is that Skald’s sister is somewhat similar to my mom. My mom is Vietnamese, and has hang-ups with several other ethnic groups, including, but not limited to: blacks, hispanics and middle easterners. However, she insists she isn’t racist, simply because, to her, someone who’s a minority can’t be racist. Racism, to her, is prejudice against minorities.

Not saying it makes any sense, only that it’s widespread. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

You’re pretty much right, 1CS. In retrospect sending the bees after you may have been a mistake. I’d add that there at least USED to be a sentiment in black academia that black racism is impossible because racism was defined (or re-defined) as the use of political and social power to oppress members of another racial group. That’s what I was referring to in the OP when I wrote of moving the goal posts, and that’s my sister’s positon.

Of course it’s still bullshit. We live in a city that’s had a black mayor for nearly 20 years, that has a black chief of police, that is 60 percent black. a black majority on the city council…and so on. Saying blacks have no political power here is crap.

53

{{Skald}}

Lots of good stuff has already been said, so I won’t waste bandwidth by repeating it.

54

[QUOTE=Billdo]
you can ask him to talk with your sister about it.
[/QUOTE]

This is excellent advice. Sounds like Lindy is a bit of an authoritarian personality type. If so, she won’t listen to hellbound, honky lonving lilbro, but she’ll listen to a pastor and do pretty much anything he tells her to.

55

Skald, my condolences on the loss of your mother, and my sympathies regarding your sister. Best wishes, whatever boundries you set.

56

Skald, your story makes me heartsick. People do so much nastiness when they’re drunk on righteous certitude. Would she betray the trust of her most pious and respected pastor in this way? Likely not, it’d be wrong. Good thing the rules are different when you’re talking about stubborn hellbound heathens, though. Apparently, when you’re workin for the Lord, you can excuse all sorts of underhanded fuckery.

I hate when people hold respect and love hostage until you capitulate to their whims. (I know she loves you, but no matter how she spins it, that was no loving act.) It never seems to make me want to earn the privilege of their regard, somehow. Much less join their church.

I remember the Beth posts - she’s the girl from the library? What a cool update to that story! I am glad you guys are together. She seemed all kinds of cool, and evidently still is.

I hope you and your sis can come to some peace eventually. You both already lost your mom, it would be awful to lose one another too. But things can’t go on as they have been. I hope wisdom results from this somehow and things are reconciled. But it’s a terrible circumstance. It makes my eyes and throat prickle in a way that more horrible recent happenings just don’t; this is easier to relate to, I suppose.

(I am a little amused, not at your sister, but at me. I find that the part of racism I struggle with the most is, though it’s never happened, I am afraid of black ladies yelling at me. Being evil takes way more balls than I’ve got.)

57

[QUOTE=Zoe]
<snip>You will need to be specific! Possible boundaries to consider:

  1. Your sister is not to say anything racially disparaging in your presence again. Nothing. Nada.

  2. Your sister is to refrain from giving you advice on your love life.

  3. Your sister is to refrain from giving you spiritual advice

  4. Your sister is to refrain from quoting Scripture in your presence.

  5. Your sister is to refrain from criticizing your religious beliefs.

  6. Your sister is to refrain from promoting her own spiritual beliefs over yours.

  7. Your sister is not to invade your privacy or betray any confidences.
    <snip>.
    [/QUOTE]

Setting boundaries isn’t about what other people need to do or not do; it’s about what YOU will or won’t do or not tolerate. I would adjust your list like this:

  1. I will not tolerate you saying anything racially disparaging in my presence. If you say something like this, I will leave/hang up.

  2. I do not want to hear advice on my love life. If you start talking about my love life, I will leave/hang up.

  3. I do not want spiritual advice from you. If you attempt to give me spiritual advice, I will leave/hang up.

  4. You can quote scriptures all you want, with the understanding that when I have had enough of it, I will leave/hang up.

  5. I do not want my religious beliefs criticized. If you criticize them, I will leave/hang up.

  6. I do not want your spiritual beliefs promoted over mine. If you do that, I will leave/hang up.

  7. I will not tolerate my privacy invaded or my confidences betrayed. If I find you have done this, I may not confide in you further or allow you access to anything personal of mine.

  8. I will not tolerate my girlfriend being disrespected. When you disrespect her, you disrespect me, and I will leave/hang up.

In my version, he is not telling his sister what do to; she can do anything she wants, but she is now aware of the consequences of her actions, and if she still chooses them, the results shouldn’t be a surprise to her.

58

[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
I’m not boiling with rage this moment.
[/QUOTE]
I am. My face is actually flushed.

Were I you, I would cut this person off. Yesterday. Get her out of your life.

But I second what tomndebb said: Don’t try to make a scene out of it. Just cut her off. Done. Click. Seacrest Out.

The most I would say, the absolute most, is something like: “I’m not talking to you again. If you choose to talk to me, the only thing I want to hear from you is a long and detailed apology that makes it clear you understand what you did, and that you intend to make corrections. And nothing but. Anything else you have to say, don’t bother contacting me. Ever.”

Fuck, am I pissed.

59

Does Beth have any racist relatives? Because if she did, the next time your sister said something racist, you could retort, “you ought to compare notes with Beth. She has a racist Uncle Jimmy who says the exact same thing – about black people.”

I hope she doesn’t own any semi-automatic weapons. [shudder]