I met a girl at a gas station and I think I missed her call!

In My Humble Opinion
121

I don’t think anyone here will debate that, but it’s a much more polite way to reject someone than telling them exactly what’s wrong with them and that you never want to see them again. Even if the rejectee really wanted to hear it–and I strongly suspect that they’re lying if they say they do, considering my own experience with the direct approach to rejecting women I wasn’t into, and considering how difficult it is to take something like that anyway–then one should take the feelings of the rejector into consideration. Nobody wants to say that to someone, unless they’re a really mean person and/or they’ve had a really bad day–and even in that case, they’ll probably feel like an asshole for saying it and dwell on it for a while. Saying you have plans and maybe you’ll call back is the polite way to turn down any invitation, including an invitation to date someone.

A rejector just can’t win, anyway–I remember an ordeal with a woman who just wouldn’t take no for an answer, and first I would reject her gently and politely and she wouldn’t get it (or she would whine about how I was being evasive and I needed to be specific or some such crap); and then when I put my foot down and told her that I never wanted to see her again and that she should consider herself rejected, she would leave voice mail messages and call me from blocked numbers to tell me how mean I was and by the way did I want to fuck sometime?

Being told something like that is deeply embarrassing, as is the act of telling someone that. Worse, people given a specific reason for being rejected tend to clamor back in a short time and say, “I’ve changed all the things you didn’t like! Please go out with me now/take me back/whatever!” Which is generally a lie or a delusion anyway, isn’t a healthy attitude, wastes both peoples’ time and is extra-creepy too.

122

I think I need to set things right with a lot of you guys.

Honestly, I haven’t been a jerk, but I guess I’ve been coming off that way. Sorry. I don’t spend time on this board to foster ignorance make enemies. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Sleeps with Butterflies, maybe we can stop being hostile to each other. I really have no beef with you. You obviously have a problem with me, and I’m OK with that. What I’m not OK with is accepting second class behavior from anyone, and that includes myself. Let’s just stop with the bullshit, OK?

alice_in_wonderland, sorry if I’m coming off as a jerk, but my intention honestly was to help. I bear no ill will towards anyone, and if I can offer my experience to someone in pain, I’ll do it. I have no intention to make anyone uncomfortable.

It’s funny how for seven years of my membership here, I was in a wonderful and loving relationship. No one said boo about it. Indeed, no one noticed. I suspect that no one really cared. Then it broke up. The outpouring of support from the board was wonderful. It really helped me through some dark times. And oh boy, were they ever dark times. Last summer sucked ass for me. Then one day, I had an epiphany that maybe things don’t have to be like that. I brought my ideas to the board, and that’s when the board started to respond that I was being jerkish, creepy, loserish, whatever.

I assure you that I’m not like that in real life. I was just expressing my unfiltered thoughts in what I thought was a safe environment. Wow, was I ever wrong.

I was also wrong in assuming that this is a good environment for getting dating advice. It very much is not. While there are some gems, they usually come down to these two points:

  1. Everything that anyone does, ever, at any time, is creepy. The board seems to be obsessed with this. Everyone here seems to kind of see the world in terms of nothing but degrees of creepiness.

  2. No one, at any time, is really into anyone else. If you think otherwise, refer back to rule one.

That’s such a negative mindset. Hey, if it works out for you, great. I wish you the best of luck. But it hasn’t worked for me. In fact, I’ve found that it’s really toxic to me. It’s worse than useless. Isn’t it funny how right around the time I discarded any and all advice I’ve read here, wonderful women started showing up in my life? I’ve found a lot of value in finding my own way instead of listening to Dopers. No offense, but I have to go with what works for me.

alice, as far as my using techniques vs just meeting women that are into me, it’s a combination. Maybe I’ve just had a streak of good luck, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’ve really been working on this area of my life and I’ve been experiencing more success than I ever have before.

Hence my comments in this thread. The ideas of “whatever you do is creepy” and “she’s just not into you” are so alien to me at this point that they just don’t make any sense. They are not even specks in my current reality. Had I taken Doper advice on every single woman currently in my life, not a single one of them would be in my life. Not one.

So, all around apologies for any jerkish behavior on this subject in the past year. No harm was intended. But I think here we must part ways. I’ll still enjoy the Dope, but I’ll not participate in any more dating advice threads. (I’ll answer responses to this particular post if it seems prudent.) It’s toxic to my success.

May you all find what you seek.

123

tdn, I think there are two schools of thought on starting relationships. One is that things will “just happen” if they’re destined to. The other school of thought is that at least one of you has to put some effort in. I would put you in the latter category, and I think you’re right in most cases.

There are numerous anecdotes about couples that have been together for decades, and the relationship started through persistence (not stalking) from the guy. The woman may have been coy or shy at first, or it may have been a love/hate relationship, but the man keeps asking the woman out and she finally goes out with him.

The trick is to know the line between persistence and stalking, and to know when to quit. Love is a tricky thing. A lot of guys make real asses of themselves and get over-invested in making things work, that’s what creeps women out and turns them off.

You ask one woman (usually an attractive one) and she’ll say men need to leave her the fuck alone and quit bothering her all the time. You ask another woman and she’ll tell you that no guys ever pay attention to her.

124

Definitely the latter. The former has rarely worked for me.

125

Absolutely, the former only works if the other side is putting the required effort in.

That said, you usually get a vibe on these things, and it doesn’t sound like the OP got a good one.

Red - How about you let this one go (baring unexpected developments), but resolve to approach at least one girl you like the look of this weekend to make up for it? If you’re no good with girls, just get used to talking to them as normal human beings at first, get comfortable with it, and move on from there. Chances are it will all fall into your lap with the right girl, anyway.

Or go to Amsterdam.

126

Maybe it’s the specific things you suggest people do, not our biased perspective, that cause this.

Which is exactly what I told you to do a couple of years ago. I seem to recall getting Pitted at the time.

Those are two pretty different things. “Whatever you do is creepy”, which is either hyperbole or a reaction to the specific things you seem to suggest (or maybe a reading that doesn’t give credit to the things you do and say that people don’t find creepy and don’t say anything about–or maybe just a result of people making a mountain out of a molehill on another board entirely, for their own amusement) is very different from “she’s just not into you”, which is actually sometimes true. I mean, sometimes she just isn’t. Surely you’ve met a woman who you didn’t want to date? Why couldn’t the opposite be true of some women out there? I mean, I take it as a given that there are some women out there who I will just never date–just as it’s true that there are some women in the world who I would never say ‘yes’ to. It’s really not a big deal, and IMO it’s healthy to be realistic about it. It doesn’t bring me down–in fact, I’m happier now that I’ve raised my standards and kept toxic partners out of my life (among other life changes) than I have been in years, even though I’m also getting laid less (and dated less) than I have in years.

Good on you for recognizing a toxic situation and extracting yourself from it. I had to do something similar recently (for a while, anyway), and I think it’s been a positive change for everyone involved so far.

127

Isn’t there some joke to the effect that it’s only harassment if you aren’t into the other person?

I sympathize completely with the OP. Some women play really hard to get, for instance, which is why some guys are total jerks about refusing to take no for an answer. Other women are shrinking violets and the least persistence will set off their alarms.

I think many of us are reading the OP’s pessimistic attitude and/or low self-esteem and trying to encourage him to push a bit more. At some point he has to go beyond his comfort zone, since he isn’t happy with the results he’s been getting. Whether this is the gal he should push or not is debatable, but if he’s really attracted to her, there’s some motivation.

Red, life will go on with or without her. I figure when you try for a date, there’s always a chance of going down in flames. But if I’m really interested in the woman, it’s worth the scorch marks. JMO, YMMV.

128

I don’t know you, so it isn’t a problem with YOU personally. It just seems that you have posted about behaviors that I’ve dealt with before.

I don’t have the desire to to use the search function to find lots of instances, so I’ll just mention one. I recall a thread where you talked about finding an ID badge on the street. You contacted the girl and arranged to meet her to return the badge. That was kind of you. Afterwards you came online and talked about how you were thinking of calling her to arrange a date because she was pleasant to you when you returned the badge.

As a woman I find those types of situations very frustrating. I’d like to think that if I lost my ID badge I could retrieve it without being called afterwards just because I’d given my phone # just so we could arrange a pickup time. It’s like for many men, every situation is an opportunity to find a date.

I can also remember reading about you trying to flirt with a woman who lives in your building because you’d spoken before and she seemed friendly.

I was raised to be polite. I smile and speak when spoken to. Sometimes (and I’m not specifically gearing this at just you) men will take any opportunity to see this as flirting. At the grocery store, at the gas station, at the pharmacy, at the mall. It seems like if we’re there and not scowling, there’s a guy who thinks it’s a green light to try to get a phone number.

I realize the old saying “Nothing ventured, nothing gained” is true, but not all men read the signs when we’re not interested. Have you ever had someone follow you around the grocery store trying to talk when you’re shopping? How about a neighbor that would practically pounce on you if they could catch you outside? For some people a smile and a “no thank you” just isn’t enough. They keep at it. It’s frustrating when you have to be pushed into bitch mode and hurt their feelings.

Being forward and being pushy, it’s a fine line. The OP was interested and got her number. He called and she was supposed to call back, she didn’t. It’s been weeks. He is saying “It’s not going to work.” because he’s read the signs. Enter a few men who are telling him to try again. Why? He’s trying to be respectful, but he’s being given advice to be pushy.

When you post to a messageboard, you get people’s reactions. We all bring our life experiences with us here. If you’re posting about a woman and your interactions with her, we’re going to give you our opinions based on our own experiences. We’re not always going to agree and we assume the OP wants us to give our truthful response.

I agree that the word creepy is thrown around too easily here. Not everything is creepy. I’ll also agree this is a bad place for relationship advice. Sometimes people are too quick to jump in and say “Don’t do it!” but then sometimes people find encouragement based on nothing. Look at the thread about the guy who thinks his co-worker has the hots for him because when leaning down to show him something her breast has grazed him and she gave him a “great” smile when she met him. I’m only a B cup so I doubt I’d be grazing against anyone, but it sure makes me hesitant to smile if it’s that easy to give some guys the idea you’re interested.

See, this last quote is odd to me. I don’t care WHO you are, what you look like, or what you have to offer … there are going to be people who are just not into you. That thought is alien to you? I’ve been called vain before, but I can’t IMAGINE having that mindset. I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, it’s pretty preposterous to think that every man I meet is going to be into me.

The mindset of that being alien to you makes me wonder (along with some of the statements I’ve read from you) if maybe you’re not always reading the signs from women. I promise you, even Brad Pitt/George Clooney/Johnny Depp/insert-hot-man-of-choice have women who are not into them. Are you so different?

129

Hey, I’m glad we’re back on friendly terms here. I’m really not here to piss people off.

Of course, you have to read people and know when to proceed and when back off. It’s not that hard with a little practice. But keep in mind that women are far better at it then men are. We tend to be fairly socially clueless.

As far as the thought of “I’m creepy, and/or she’s not into me” goes, yeah, it’s way out of my attitude. In the past, it was at the forefront of my attitude. I understand that I MIGHT come off as sketchy, I understand that she MIGHT not be into me, but assuming that I will just makes me not even try. Making that assumption has held me back for a good part of my life. If I instead take the attitude “I’m irresistable, and she’s going to love me”, then more often that not it becomes true. Think of it as approaching women with confidence. It’s attractive.

I should add that in the past posts of mine that you refer to, I was pretty much Captain Clueless in those days. These days I’m doing a lot better.