You know I just broke things off with my crazy Mom, right? Come to the dark side. We have freedom.
I believe that you’ve done the right thing for yourself and your family. Take care of yourself (and them).
I know Skald has already responded but…
Why the hell not? The man has shown himself to be inconsiderate, untrustworthy, and ill-mannered. Why shouldn’t Skald keep him away from his children?
Because they’re too young to understand what’s going on. They’ll get it when they’re older, but they shouldn’t have that kind of baggage foisted on them before they can. I know it’s not Skald’s fault, but life just sucks that way sometimes.
And you don’t think a parent could make a reasonable decision that the children are better off without a “inconsiderate, untrustworthy, ill-mannered” relative in their lives? That a parent might decide that relative makes their lives worse, rather than better, and thus be being responsible by keeping that relative away?
Why do they need to understand what’s going on? A parent can make that judgement call for his/her children.
Guys, I’m not disagreeing with his judgement call. He’s given it consideration, that’s what he’ll do. It’s not an ideal situation, and that’s not his fault. I trust Skald to do what’s right here.
Although this sounds nice, it is actually absurd. Skald’s father has already demonstrated that any agreement he makes is subject to revision if his god deems it wrong. Thus he absolutely cannot be trusted. You cannot negotiate with someone like that.
Were you really expecting him to honor your wishes?
Well, now you know: he can’t be tursted. So don’t turst him.
Sounds to me like the fundamental problem isn’t a religious issue, but a “he doesn’t respect other people’s boundaries” issue.
“The Holy Ghost, by which I mean his own fucking arrogance” is the best line I’ve read all day … and it’s 1LineWed on Twitter. Congratulations, man.
And stop talking to your dad until you feel you have the energy to deal with him some more.
Skald, first things first: its a hard time you’re living through and I wish you well with it.
As for your father, this may be eating him up inside or maybe he just really is an asshole. You know him better than I do and I trust your judgement.
As for the pastor’s phone call / 1-800-proselyte (leave off the last ‘T-E’ for don’t make me laugh) I think you were more than generous. I’d like to think that if it were me and I was just told I was being “deceived by the Enemy” that I’d say,
“Pastor Bill, I really can’t talk anymore. The Enemy is at the gate. G’bye…”
Cue hang up
cue receiver off hook & wire unplugged so I don’t hear the off-hook tone.
My experience is you are best off without fundamentalist idjits. Christians in general are the most annoying of fucks, but fundamentalists ought just to be whipped. You did right.
My father and yours are more alike than I’m sure either of us would like. He was Catholic, not Pentecostal, but he shared that attitude of “I think so therefore God thinks so therefore I’m right and can’t budge or compromise”.
I finally cut him out of my life a year before he died. It was very painful, and I wish dearly that he had been able to admit his mistake for long enough to attempt to mend the relationship, but I still believe that it was, if not a good decision, a necessary one.
My sister, meanwhile, had cut him completely out of her life nearly a decade previous to that. She had one child at the time, and now has three. They all know, of course, that they have a grandfather, and know some things about him, but the baggage of not seeing him is a lot less than the baggage they would have had from seeing him.
Now, I don’t know your full situation. The person here who knows the most about your situation is you, and even you don’t know all of it. But I know enough to at least say that your decision does not sound unreasonable.
This is my situation. My mom is nuts - as such, my eldest hasn’t seen her since he was 15 months old, and my youngest has never seen her. I think they are better for it. They still get plenty of grandparent time with my dad and my in-laws, so there’s no lack of spoiling. Just a lack of really confusing narcissism.
Hmmm… we might possibly have the same father. I stopped talking with him when I was about 19 and have never regretted the decision.
So, on the pro-father side, you have to realize that religion is very real for some people. You can believe that they are wrong, sure. Maybe they are mis-interpreting Freudian associations or hearing voices in their own head, but they do believe it. If the placebo effect gets rid of a headache, the headache *did *go away. If psychosomatic pain makes your leg hurt, your leg really *does *hurt. So at least try to appreciate that genuine concern can be one of the motives driving your father and his pastor. If they believe hell is real, then they should be actively concerned that you might end up there.
But, on the anti-father side, a little story. My father tells this to anyone who will listen and says it’s a Native American folk tale: A snake and a horse are trying to cross a river. The horse starts to go across and the snake says “Wait, take me with you. I promise I won’t bite.” The horse agrees and once they get the other side, the snake bites the horse and says “You knew I was a snake when you took me across.” My father tells the story to illustrate how badly other people treat him and I find it hugely ironic because my father is the only person I know who is exactly like the snake in the story, but he doesn’t see it that way.
So, yeah, the guy’s a snake. He’s going to bite you, and he’s going to feel justified in doing so. Your only course of action is to leave him on the other side of the river.
With my father, I cut off contact at 19 and pretty much everyone at that time said I was wrong to do so. Over the years, every single one of them has come to me and said that I did the right thing. My wife saw the wisdom within just a couple of years; my great-aunt, the career peace-maker in the family, took another ten years… but even she eventually saw that I was right and followed suit.
One bit of advice: make sure to leave it at cutting off contact. Don’t try to get other family members to agree with you. Don’t try to get revenge or justification or anything else. Just be very clear with people what the lines are and that you expect them to respect your decision. You don’t want to disrupt the rest of the family’s relationships (with yourself or each other) any more than you have to. Nothing makes a problem like this worse than people setting up factions and taking sides.
I am fortunate to have great family but I did make the mistake of marrying into crazy briefly, and was able to witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station at close hand.
Whatever you can handle is up to you, but any protection you offer your children from the insanity (including protecting yourself and therefore being available for them) is a good thing. Children are amazingly insightful and both capable of seeing the truth and dealing with it. Any act you take to protect and nurture their lives is noble in the end, and if you shield them from your father you are doing good work indeed.
All I can tell you is I don’t live with any crazy anymore, and life is wonderful. I strongly recommend you cut ties for the health of yourself and your family. Your lives will be enriched by it.
You certainly have no chance, whatsoever, of ‘fixing’ the man or making him a better person. If by some *miracle *he comes about to humanity that will be on him, not you.
I think you’re making the best of a bad situation. There is absolutely nothing wrong, and a lot right, about protecting your kids from toxic relatives. Generally grandparents can be pretty good grandparents even when they were shitty parents (weird, huh?), but that rule is not universal.
I think you’re on the right path and not over reacting. Best of luck. Your twins will appreciate it.
You don’t need feedback from us, or anyone else. You know you’re on the right side.
Your boundary-ignoring dad can fuck right off with my heartfelt atheist blessings. I would only suggest that if you come to a place where you have an excess of fucks to give and decide to strew some in his direction in the privacy of your own heart and mind, to think of him as the victim of a particularly pervasive brainwashing, and therefore perhaps not entirely to be blamed for his douchery, which is explicitly and frequently encouraged by his religion.
And good on you for standing your ground for your kids. I hope you feel better, or if that’s not something that’s likely, that you’re able to be happy with your family and your work for a ridiculously long time to come.
Survey says: not overreacting.