I never wanted much to do with kids until my lover was murdered in front of hers

In My Humble Opinion
1

So long story short. I was romantically (but non monogamously) involved with a women with two kids - a boy nine and a girl eight. It was the first relationship I had were there was no jealousy - as I did not want kids - and we knew we had no future together, but enjoyed each other’s company. It was freeing in many ways - as we could talk about our other love interests and we had great times together. Of the women I’ve been romantically involved with - only one other woman have I spent more time with.

Earlier this year - she was shot in the chest with a shot gun in front of her daughter. It is the most pain I have ever experienced in my life. She came from a family of lower socio-economic background. They have embraced me as part of their family and say that I was the only good thing in her life. This of course made me feel good and gave some small comfort in the wake of the tragedy.

I started visiting her mom as her mom is devastated of course and we have been leaning on each other for support. Her four year old daughter for a month straight was almost in a trance - and whenever anyone asked her how she was - she’d say:

“Mommy’s dead - ‘John’ shot her in the heart with a shotgun and then he shot himself.”

I watched her say this to probably two dozen adults - and man - there is nothing that I’ve ever seen that changes a persons facial expression faster than seeing an adorable little girl uttering those words.

Anyway - for some reason these two kids seem to have taking a shining to me. Last month I attended a birthday party they were both attending for someone in the family I didn’t know. When I got there the little girl was so happy to see me and ran up and hugged me and the boy went around the house yelling with excitement (to 95% of people who didn’t know me from Adam):

“DataX is here, DataX is here!”

He took me into the woods behind his house to show me his secret fort and other places and told me I was his best friend.

For some reason kids seem to like me in general, but these two really seem to look forward to me and apparently talk about me even when I’m not there.

As you might imagine my heart has melted and I am starting to feel protective about these kids. Right now I see them every few weeks, but always in a group setting.

My immediate concern is with the four year old. She is spending weekends with her father, who is also poor, has no car (does work) - and at heart is a decent guy trying to put his life back together. He also was present when my lover was killed and his quick actions probably saved the life of the four year old (I haven’t asked for all the details as I want to believe she didn’t suffer and I can’t handle some of that).

Anyway - he has reached out to me as he says the girl really likes me and wants us to do stuff - the three of us. We went out this weekend to McDonald’s and then for a walk in/near the woods where there was some horses. She loved McDonalds of course, but got bored quickly of the walking.

So my reason for posting is I need some ideas on things to do. I know this makes me sound like an awful person, but I have pretty bad depression and ADHD - and can’t handle doing stuff that is totally boring (so no Barney concerts).

  1. What is the range of time a four year old would have energy for activities - I have no idea what is too much time wise for kids?

I also once (when her mom was alive) thought I was being the cool guy when we didn’t have much time by stopping at the playground for five minutes on the way to our destination thinking they’d appreciate it. I didn’t realize you can’t give kids something fun to do and say - “ok we have to go” five minutes later and I did more harm than good. I mention this as this shows my level of Kid IQ is borderline - well you know the word.

  1. I have a car seat - I plan on taking it to a place to double check my installation - what else should I get to have on hand in my car for traveling - crayons? dolls?

  2. What are some ideas of things that both two adults (baby daddy and me) and a four year old girl - soon to be five - can do? Her family is poor and she has done virtually nothing that costs money. They sometimes lived in the park and her mom had never been to a restaurant with cloth napkins before I took her.

  3. Any good books on being a “big brother” for lack of a better term?

  4. I am near baltimore

  5. Is it normal for a kid to stick their finger in a dog’s butt? I’m not talking finger banging here - more of a quick dip.

Oh and other people are on the whole trauma/counseling type stuff. And she is out of her trance and “appears” like a happy kid now.

2

Girl is four not eight

3

As part of “what is this here?” yes it’s normal. In a “kids is weird” kind of normal. It wouldn’t be normal if she was doing it often. But once? Yeah, and hey, at least that kind of “what is this here?” hole doesn’t give you a shock!

How old is the boy? Depending on local regs, you may need a booster seat for him.

4

Boy is nine - I have driven him without a car seat before - hope I wasn’t breaking the law/putting him at risk, but I’ll double check (or I guess check) before I take him again.

5

I don’t have kids. My advice would be - don’t start something unless you’re serious about being there for the long haul. Even if it’s a Barney concert. If you’re serious, then get on a schedule of seeing them -once a week, twice a month, whatever - and never, never, never break it. Your depression or your boredom level are not relevant here.

The kids will need you to be there for them for the next fifteen years. Unless you’re willing to make this commitment, don’t start something you’re not going to finish.

6

Wow, I’m so sorry. I would like to repeat what Merneith said though: this is real, not Tamagotchi. You can’t not show up, ever. I don’t want to imply that you would think that, but I do want to be explicit.

This completely depends on what you are doing. There is no set amount of time for anything, children are alive throughout the whole day. You can do all-day activities, but they’ll need rest and food and toilet stops included and you need to take melt downs and such into account.

You’ll get used to things like the playground issue pretty quickly, once you can imagine that to them an activity is like it is to you: the playground was like taking you to see a film and then making you leave before the end. It is actually perfectly predictable that they wouldn’t like it, once you can think like they do.

If you’re taking them out for an outing, I would suggest starting off by taking them to set activities for an afternoon. For example the zoo: there are toilets and lunch facilities, and you take them back before supper in the evening. The four year old might need piggy back rides, or might not. You’ll figure it out. If she becomes too tired, and it makes her grumpy then you’ll know for next time.

Wet wipes!!!
Emergency biscuits: sometimes a melt down is hunger. Water.

Crayons aren’t my favourite, personally, as they end up all over the car & are good for stabbing. It may happen anyway, but I wouldn’t opt for it voluntarily. Same with lego. I would just see what they are into at that time, and let them bring what ever will keep them quiet for the journey. If it’s crayons, it’s crayons.

It might be a good idea to get a good book on kids activities.

You could do fun sciencey stuff, and art projects like tie dyeing the old sheets. Movie night at home with pop corn and your favourite film from when you were a kid. Build forts! Forts out of pillows and sheets, and bake cookies to build forts out of. If you have a park near by, you could set up a treasure hunt. Perhaps the museums have free days? Perhaps there are special passes for children’s activities in your area? How about bicycles? Is there somewhere you can go for campfires and marshmallows? Do you play the guitar, can you learn a song together? Do a theatre show together, a sheet for a curtain, and perform for dad.

I just did a 48 hour film project and there was one dad with his two kids! Awesome! :eek:

The possibilities are endless, really. I hope others from the Baltimore area can help with specifics.

Yep. And also maybe no, but it really depends. What these children have been through is not normal, and there is absolutely no way of knowing what the effects might be. Counselling… oh, wait… :slight_smile:

That’s great! I have worked with kids who have been through this kind of stuff. Some kids are eventually fine, in their own way. Just keep talking.

7

Please don’t let this scare you away. Yes, you cannot just flake out and disappear, but you don’t have to have some sort of partial custody/visitation arrangement to have a positive effect on these kids. In fact, I’d advise against a hard and fast schedule, because then when you don’t stick to it, they will notice and be hurt. You want “cool, DataX came to see my school play,” not “where’s DataX, I’m getting my award today.”

Even actual parents do get to go out of town, have work stuff come up, etc. that necessitates canceling plans with kids. They can handle some irregularity without being worse off than if they’d never known you.

8

You need to remember, you are not their parent. You’re sort of their “fun uncle”. Leave it there. And keep in mind that as they grow older, they’re probably going to shift some of their affection to their friends.

9

It’s possible that my own mental hang ups are interfering with my thinking about my previous response. Of course, feel free to disregard me, as needed.

10

I think this is a really good way to approach it. You don’t need a visitation schedule, but I think you should ask yourself if “occasional fun activities” is something you can see yourself doing a year from now.

I wanted to comment a little on this thing you said:

First, I would try to schedule stuff so that you are doing active things first, maybe with a snack, and then end up at McDonalds. (obviously, it doesn’t always work out that way, but that should be the aim.)

Second, when you’re 4 years old, walking is a drag, but these things are fun:

  1. singing while you’re walking
  2. pretending you are exploring the woods
  3. counting the sounds you hear (birds, wind, traffic)
  4. pretending you are a bunny rabbit, squirrel, deer, whatever, and you are walking through the woods on some sort of bunny errand
  5. looking for rocks and pebbles, and keeping track of the different kinds – smooth, rough, pointy, round, dark, light, etc
  6. picking ONE rock or pebble to keep (and making choices is a good developmental activity at this age)
  7. making up a story about being in the woods
  8. marking your path with pebbles so you can find your way back
  9. drawing a map so you can find your way back
  10. bringing a plastic grocery bag to pick up any litter you see (use good judgement on what is too dirty to pick up, but honestly, that’s what a pocket pack of wet wipes is for)
  11. finding a good stick for everyone, because everyone should carry a good stick while walking in the woods

FYI, in case it’s not clear, it is you, DataX, who is doing these things, and then the girl can join in. Give her room to expand, change, or switch around between these activities, and think of her own.

My general advice for kid outings (my daughter is around this age) is to let the plan be very kid-directed. We were visiting friends in another town, and this town has a ROCKING playground with like a million different things, as soon as I saw it, I was jealous I never had anything like it when I was a kid! Different play areas, gardens, interactive stations, water areas, it was awesome!

My daughter came across ONE THING at the start of our visit, a train area, and then got super into an involved play story about how we were all taking the train, and where we were going, and what we were going to eat on the train, and who else was going to get on and off the train at various stations (Princess Sofia, Batman, our neighbor, Hello Kitty, a doll, etc). She had no interest in checking out the other areas of the playground, and I honestly think it’s better for everyone if the adults are cool with that. So we hung out by the train for 2 hours, and never saw any of the other parts of the park. If it’s working, don’t mess with it! Especially for free things like playgrounds and parks, you can always go back another time.

11

Seconding this advice.

12

I’ve been the “crazy uncle” before, even after a kid lost her parents, and I agree that a set schedule is not a good idea. And they will definitely grow out of it in a sense, becoming less attached to you. It used to bug me, but I’ve gotten used to it.

I will point out that they often want to become friends again after their teenage years. Maybe not as close as they were, as you’re still at different points in your lives, but closer.

Anyways, good on you to care about these kids, despite your initial reluctance.

13

Many public libraries have great (and almost always free) activities for kids. Not just story time, either–crafts, etc. Some have play areas for them, I’ve seen a couple with gardens, and hey, you could look at a magazine if the kids are coloring or whatever, periodically looking up to comment on what they’re doing.

14

It’s great you want to help, but don’t outshine their own family. You don’t want the kids to resent their own family because they can’t do nice things for them like you can. Be supportive and be part of their lives, but keep the activities simple and reasonable. For example, take them to the playground instead of Six Flags. Take them to McDonalds instead of a fancy restaurant. You don’t want to make the dad feel embarrassed that he doesn’t have as much money as you.

I think you should just do things in a group setting. There are a host of problems that kids can have and you don’t want to cause them or be blamed for them. If you take them somewhere, always make sure a family member can come along. It would be irresponsible for the family to let the kids be alone with you. Nothing against you, but they shouldn’t trust you at this point. If they allow you to be alone with the kids, they aren’t acting responsibly. You must act responsibly, and that means not being alone with the kids.

15

It’s been mentioned that the kids are seeing a counselor of some sort. My advice would be to talk to this person about what your role should be.

That’ll be so much better than any canned advice we can give about generic troubled kids. The counselor:

  1. already knows more about kids in general than most of us on the forums
  2. knows these specific kids better than just about anyone else
  3. can not only advise you on what to do, but can help explain that relationship to the kids to make sure there are no mixed messages about your role or expectations.

And it really is a matter of expectations more than anything else. You don’t want them thinking of you as a parent if you’re not committed to that role, but there’s no reason you can’t be a friendly uncle or part-time babysitter.

I like delphica’s advice about letting kids set the activities and tempo. Kids will find fun stuff to do almost anywhere, but maybe in ways you won’t expect. The classic story of kids playing with the cardboard boxes after Christmas is a perfect example. As a adult, give them a new or “target rich” environment and then support what they do with it.

Make sure there are things they can excel at. Some kids are more outright competitive than others, but all of them want to think they did something well. That’s why delphica’s suggestions for things to do on the walk are so good: kids are mediocre at walking (especially compared to adults), but every kid is going to succeed at map-making, bird-listening, story-telling, picking good rocks/sticks, etc. (And really, do we ever grow out of this? Who doesn’t like to succeed at something and be praised for it?)

16

I generally agree with this, but it wouldn’t hurt to go big once a year and take the whole family out for something special. At times like birthdays and Christmas it is important not to outshine the parents, thoughtful gifts will be better than expensive ones. If he wants to contribute in a big way he can start saving money for their future.

17

DataX. This isn’t really your problem to solve, it is still one for the family to deal with. And though they seem to have few financial resources it is still a family.

It is admirable that you see and feel an obligation to get involved, and you should stay involved for some period of time. The kids will grow beyond this issue and survive we hope. Don’t let guilt be the motivator that keeps you in the picture. They do need some measure of continuity and you can help provide that.

I work with “at risk” young people and what most people tend to believe that they need is wrong. They don’t need money, they don’t need to be removed from their environment (unless it is really awful), they don’t even need or want your love.

What do they really need? An example of a normal responsible adult. Not a perfect person just one who takes care of the things you have to do and succeeds just a little but by doing so. It is just about that simple.

You can’t provide the finances to remove them from their home life situation, nor should you even if you could.

They will grow swiftly, and adapt to the situation. Just be an example of a normally adjusted adult. It is sad that some kids do not have one in their life.

18

Does ‘the three of us’ mean you and the two kids, or you, dad, and the 4yo? Because leaving the boy out (or catering to the 4yo by only planning activities that she would enjoy/tolerate) is not a good idea.

19

Ok - I think some of you were getting the wrong idea:

  1. I am in no way trying to replace their parents.
  2. I am sorta trying to be kinda like the fun uncle.
  3. I’m not trying to outshine their father or anything - the kid doesn’t know where the money is coming from. I mention the money as we are talking like I can take her/them to the aquarium while the dad doesn’t even have the ability to drive anywhere. It just gives us more freedom. He reached out to me and seems very grateful, plus he is kinda hurting too and I think enjoys having another adult around (we did the whole holding her hands while walking and swinging her thing).
  4. I loved their mother and she loved them. It isn’t guilt that is keeping me in the picture - it is my love for her - and I like them.
  5. My depression doesn’t keep me from showing up to things when I said I would - it is just that if I was doing Barney concerts - I would be miserable. Stuff like aquariums, movies, and other things are things I would love to do - and I think there are things we could all find fun to do. I would never, ever not show up when I said I would.
  6. The family does trust me - as I was the most normal person in my girlfriends life. This is a very troubled family and I was the first person her baby daddy called after the murder and they know they can trust me as I had proven it time and time again with the one who died - I did everything I could to help her and they know that.
  7. I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes at all. The baby daddy is kind new at this too (the girl that died was raising the kid pretty much) - he knows I’m trustworthy - his relatives basically told him to “get over it” and that this was all his fault. His friends he lives with steal from him.

There is no set schedule or anything. It looks like there are some good suggestions in there - I have to run out and didn’t have time to read in depth, but will when I get home.

Thanks for everyone who has tried to help here. Maybe I just didn’t explain myself well before - I’m really just trying to take this one week at a time and need suggestions - I’m gonna read more in detail when I get back.

Also I am fully aware that they might not want me in their life at some point, or start just wanting to be with their friends or what not. That is fine - I understand. I’m not trying to plan out their life for them, just have some fun in a semi-responsible way.

I am more than willing to talk to their counselor for some suggestions and guidance, but again - I’m not trying to take over anyone’s responsibility - just hopefully be a helpful add on.

And this isn’t one sided either - it kinda made me less depressed seeing how excited they were to see me.

Sorry if this sounded rambling - I do appreciate the input.

20

This. I am guessing that the boy has a different father? What does he do on the weekends when his sister is with her father? I think it’s important that if you’re going to be the fun uncle for his sister, you’re going to be his fun uncle too. Maybe all four of you could do things once in a while, and maybe if sometimes it’s just you, the girl, and her father, sometimes it could just be you and the boy, or you, the boy, and whoever he spends his weekends with.