I pit my wife and her son. Should I divorce them?

The BBQ Pit
41

It’s easy to talk about divorce when it’s not your personal situation, and I don’t disagree that there are some serious issues here. However, my husband and I went through some pretty tough times in the not so distant past, and now I can say that I’m glad we stuck things out.

Was it difficult and heartbreaking at times? Absolutely. Was our marriage worth fighting for? Yes.

You are the only one who can decide if this relationship is worth salvaging. You’ve been together for a long time and divorce should be the final option, not your first knee-jerk reaction.

I feel your pain about the stepson situation - our 19 y.o. daughter is currently unemployed, not in school, and driving us nuts. We have hope that maintaining firm guidelines will help. One of those is that we don’t give her money unless it’s a medical expense. Ever. It’s a pretty clear rule in this house that once you turn 18, mom and dad stop footing the bill for your fast food, clothing, and so on. Why in the world would we ever pay her cell phone bill? In fact, her phone has been shut off for nonpayment. That’s her problem, not mine. Your wife is nuts to cover a cell phone bill for a grown man. A man does not live off of his mother unless he is physically or mentally disabled. Is he? If not, he should be ashamed of himself.

A quiet determination is always better than yelling, sulking, the silent treatment, and other theatrics. I know exactly what it’s like to give an ultimatum to a young adult, have them agree to it, and then ignore it. When you get frustrated, they wonder what your problem is, right? Classic. I agree that since you are the one who is frustrated by his continued presence, you need to take action and book the flight yourself. He seems pretty happy with the status quo, so why would he take steps to change anything? He needs to be removed from the equation as soon as possible - just do it.

When they are sitting around and having a grand old time, what would happen if you sat right down, put your arm around your wife, and hung out for a few? Do you even want to at this point? I’ll bet she feels caught in the middle, and it’s easier to blame the mean husband than the innocent son.

Good luck. I hope my ramblings help, even a little.

42

No. There’s a difference between saying “this is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with for the future of this marriage” and saying “my way or the highway” - which is how ultimatums always end up sounding.

43

I see no difference between those two statements.

44

This is where I throw him out on the street.

As I read this I see it is all about you and your wife. You are jealous and you damn well should be. He doesn’t respect you because his mother doesn’t respect you. This is so fucked up that all I can think of that an ultimatum is in order if you wish to continue your relationship . I do wonder what you are getting out of your relationship with her on the plus side.

You have my condolences.

45

There’s a difference. I don’t know how well I can explain it but there is absolutely a difference. The latter comes off as just wanting your way and/or starting a war of wills (consciously or unconsciously: “maybe I just won’t do it to see if he’ll follow through?”), while the former says you’re interested in the end, not the means - which is what matters.

46

Ooh, I’ll play! Let’s see…
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shiftless has always been a good father to his own son, but has never understood stepson, or even tried to understand him. He doesn’t see that stepson’s sensitive and that he needs more support than younger son, and shiftless is too hard on him. Half of stepson’s problems are because of shiftless’s attitude toward him. If he wasn’t so negative about him all the time, stepson wouldn’t feel like such a failure. Whenever stepson tries to make plans and set goals for the future, shiftless sneers at him and puts on a big “Oh, here we go again” attitude, and stepson is so sensitive that this hurts and discourages him. Wifey has helped stepson out from time to time as any parent would do for a child, but shiftless is so unreasonable about this that she’s forced to do so secretly, because shiftless would have the boy starve before he’d lift a finger to help.

Now stepson is emotionally distraught at the impending death of his beloved father and hasn’t been dealing with it well. He knows his place is by his father’s side and he is planning to go, but he’s scared and keeps putting it off because it means facing his father’s mortality. The poor boy’s only in his twenties and that’s so young to be responsible for looking after a terminally ill parent. He will come through for his father and be there for him but he just needs a little more time to deal with it before he can go. And how does shiftless help with this? Stomping around demanding he get out of “my house” and ridiculing him because he had to cancel an earlier flight - unavoidably, I might add, because stepson had a valid reason for not making that flight - and all in all, he’s not helping. If he’d just leave him alone or be more supportive then stepson would get the strength to do what he needs to do but how is he supposed to do that with shiftless threatening to throw him out at any moment? He wouldn’t treat younger son this way, but he’s never understood stepson or Wifey’s bond with him.

So Wifey’s not speaking to shiftless now because she’s so angry and upset that she doesn’t know what to say. She does know that poor stepson does not need to see them fighting - about him - and feel even worse at such a vunerable time in his life. She’s going to continue to give shiftless the silent treatment until he realises how unfair he has been to pick on the boy all these years, and starts treating him with respect and compassion. He’s a good kid, he just needs the support and love of his family and shiftless isn’t giving him that.
*
How’d I do?

shiftless, I’m sorry for what you’re dealing with. It’s an unenviable situation. I have no advice to offer but I do hope that somehow things come right for you because you shouldn’t have to go on living like this.

47

There is a difference. The problem I have is that “there is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with for the future of our marriage” often gets ignored - its too soft pedaled. I think most “come to Jesus” meetings in a relationship (or work environment or any other sort of ‘if you do this, I’m going to do that’ conversation) need to start out the soft way…but I think they also need the ultimatum version before the packing. At least that’s been my experience in relationships. Tell someone at work “coming in late every day is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with” and they looked shocked when you fire them for coming in late when it continues to happen. “I didn’t think you meant you would fire me!”

(I remember when my husband left me and moved in with his girlfriend - a pretty clear sign he wasn’t interested in being married to me - and at some point I said “I’m going to need to file divorce papers if you aren’t interested in fixing our marriage.” When he got served with the divorce papers he called me up with “we didn’t agree to get divorced!” Apparently, I hadn’t spelled out that fixing our marriage might involve him not living with his girlfriend. Of course, he was insane…but…spell out clearly the expectations you have for the other person, spell out clearly what will happen if those expectations are not met.)

People deserve to have your response to the consequences of their continued behavior laid out for them. Otherwise, they aren’t making an informed choice about whether to continue the behavior or not.

48

I actually think that sending a grown adult who can’t take care of himself to enter a relationship in which he is the one depended on (for health reasons, no less) is a recipe for disaster. Left to his own devices, all he will do is take what he can from the relationship (lodging, money) and let the rest rot. Then declare the situation untenable and move back to momma. Whether bio dad dies before or after this (assuming the whole cancer thing is real) is immaterial to stepson.

Cazzle, I like it, but it doesn’t let her (or ** shiftless**) off the hook for not hashing this crap out years ago. What she’s doing now is only making things much worse.

49

Yeah - this jumped out at me from the OP. My kids “refuse” to contribute to the household chores when asked, they start losing privileges so damn fast, and if that doesn’t wake them up, they get emancipated and their butts are out on the street faster than they can imagine.

Wife may say step-dad has limited ability to instruct/discipline her baby, but he DOES have right to control certain aspects of his living situation. For example, he can certainly choose to not live in a home with open drug use. If wife is unwilling to allow him to take steps to make that their communal home, then he has little option other than to move out.

You have very limited ability to make other people act in any particular way - but you DO have considerable control over your own actions and the living situation you create for yourself.

I also strongly agree with the folk who stress keeping good relations wit son #2. Don’t try to enlist him as an ally against mom and son #1, but instead be honest and open to him, and solicit his opinions. In such situations, god to lengths to conduct yourself in the manner you believe one should act. Even if it costs you financially, do not drop yourself to the other’s level, and do not adopt a “scorched earth” strategy.

50

Nailed it, spot on. Judges give you a 9.5. Would have been a 10 except the degree of difficulty was kinda low.

Once again, thanks for the discussion. Maybe I’m not evil and crazy after all. Last night, my wife agreed to go to a counselor. I have one lined up and will be making the appointment today. Here’s hoping she (the counselor) can see us soon.

A couple of you have pointed out that I should have straightened this shit out along time ago. Completely true, I know. Yes, I am a crappy communicator and tend to just hope things get better, so they don’t, and my wife is just as bad. We’re in love and love conquers all, right? I have to say, I thought we doing pretty good for a few years there after he went off to college.

For those of you who suggest an ultimatum - done. Well, sort of done as in “you have to leave by this date” and now the problem is that that date has passed, we fought, he made excuses and now I am at war with my wife and step-son. I have trouble with the “or else”. Has anyone here ever delivered on such an ultimatum? Was there physical force involved? I just can’t see myself physically dragging him out of the house and throwing all his things out onto the lawn. I might as well just file for divorce right now and be done with it. This might make a good show for the neighbors but it won’t solve my problems and it may end up with one of us hurt and/or in jail.

51

I strongly agree too and I thank all those people who pointed it out to me. Son #2, my natural son, is the most important figure in the story to me, of course, and I need to keep that idea in mind at all times. He knows his brother and, as others have also pointed out, knows that the “bad” child always gets the attention and resources. He has expressed this before. I’ll let someone else start a thread on the whole dynamic of good and bad siblings.

52

I’m not making light of your situation, but the current story arc in the comic strip “Non Sequitur” revolves around the idea that good behavior makes you invisible. The arc starts here.

53

My mother is in a somewhat similar situation. My stepfather is a great guy and the two of them are perfect for each other but his two kids could very well ruin it. Thankfully, it’s not gone that far yet but I could easily see it escalating that far.

They’re both in their 20s and chronically unemployed. They’re both the sort that will quit a job if the boss says something to them about coming in late. Both live with various relatives off and on and sponge off their dad like there’s no tomorrow. They’re into him and my mother for thousands of dollars each. If they can’t make their car note, cell phone bill, or whatever, he pays it.

They always call it a loan though. It takes a week’s worth of nagging to get them to bring him a 10 dollar ‘payment’. After which they expect their dad to then buy them lunch since they had to drive all that way.

As long as they know they’ve got a cushy, no consequences safety net, they’re never going to straighten up.

But it’s one thing to recognize it and another thing entirely starting a week-long fight over it. You definitely have my sympathy. If the marriage is worth it to you though, you’ll all be better off (son included) if you fight for it.

54

I let my boyfriend “Jimmy” move in to my apartment with the understanding that we would split the rent and expenses down the middle. It quickly became evident to my friends and family that he had no intention of providing me with anything but excuses and guilt trips; this knowledge sadly took me much longer to face. In any event, I set a deadline for him to either contribute or move out. When the Saturday after that date came and went without comment from him, I packed his stuff in the boxes I’d stockpiled over the previous weeks, made a cup of coffee and waited for him to return from a visit with his parents. When his key didn’t work and he was forced to knock he immediately began crying, apologizing for not looking after himself and vowing to get a job that very day. For the first time his promises didn’t work on me, though I’m sure he meant every word he said. (He always did … in the moment. Then he’d kick back, smoke a joint and realize there was no reason to keep promises made to a doormat.) I explained that I’d packed his toiletries and a few changes of clothing in an overnight bag and would hold his boxes for one week, but that our relationship was over and he had to leave right now.

Looking back, the part that I find most surreal is that I was completely calm and firm throughout the entire process. It is as though once I made the decision and resigned myself to it, I was at peace. In fact, the hardest part was not rubbing my newfound strength in Jimmy’s face as he fell apart in front of me. He told me I was heartless; I told him he was better off without me then. He promised to pay me back rent for all the months he’d spent smoking dope on the couch; I told him that sounded very nice and he could drop off a cheque. He said he couldn’t possibly find a place to stay with no money and no job; I pointed out that he managed to find that with me. The point is, once I realized that things would never, ever change I had to choose between taking care of Jimmy and taking care of myself. I pulled a Kelly Taylor and chose me.

Your step-son sounds just like Jimmy. He will never change because he has no reason to. Don’t let him destroy your marriage the way my shiftless (sorry) brothers came between my parents. (Two have never left home and the other still calls home for “loans”; they’re all over 35YO.) Let him sink or swim, but let him go. If he won’t fend for himself, he’ll find another kind-hearted sucker – just like Jimmy found me.

55

I have lived this. My occasionally troubled (22 y.o.) son isn’t much heavier than I am, but he is ten inches taller and strong as a horse. “Or else”? All empty threats and we both know it. Possessions in the yard? Ain’t going to work either. I live in a small village and need to preserve some sense of dignity for me and the rest of my family (brothers, aged parents and nephews).

shiftless, I will follow your tale. I wish you only the best of luck.

56

IANAL, but AFAIK, an adult child living in your house who has no claim to the property has no more rights than a guest living in your house. I don’t know if you need to give them notice or anything, but if they refuse to leave you can have the police come and physically remove them. You can also obtain a restraining order which means they would be arrested if they come back.

shiftless - I don’t have the answer whether you should get divorced or not. But clearly there is no reason to stay in a relationship that only makes you miserable and unhappy.

I do think your son needs to move out of the house regardless. There is nothing so pathetic to me than a full-grown adult man permenantly living in his parents house. And I’ve known plenty. They all turn into pieces of shit. They always have the same excuses as to why they are holding out for some perfect job or the same pie-in-the-sky dreams of doing this or that or the other thing. But mostly they just live above their means and glom off their parents. There’s a reason men who refuse to move our of their parents house are used as fodder for comic films. It’s because they are ridiculous man-children.

Either way, it sounds like you need to be showing some people your pimp-hand.

57

I’m on the make a flight reservation, drive him to the airport side.

If he can’t fly somewhere, pack his stuff, give him “x” number of days then arrange to have it shipped to a storage area and change the locks.

Problem with the second one is; what’s your wife going to do? And how will you feel about it?

Your call.

58

Yeah, but she said she didn’t want to make a scene in her small town. I assume that’s why she hasn’t gone this route.

59

It can take some time before a person rejects being victimized. Until a person gets to that point, there are any number of reasons that can be put forward when avoiding the issue.

60

Well she needs to get over that.