I pit my wife and her son. Should I divorce them?

Wow, this turned out long. Sorry.

I love my wife, I do, it’s just that a man can only take so much. I have to draw a line somewhere. Here’s the background:

My wife was married before to a real jerk. A manipulative asshole with whom she had a son. She divorced him after a long struggle and got custody with the ex having very liberal visitation. He never paid any alimony or child support, partly because she didn’t want to fight, partly because he lives off the state in various ways and there really isn’t much to take. So he is just the cool dad who always has the day off, and enough money, to do fun stuff and who never gives the son grief about homework and such.

A few years later (over 20 years ago) , along comes shiftless ol’ me. We fall in love (really), we date , we marry, we have another son. There are some issues with the step-parent thing but I figure we can work it out. My wife never quite trusts me to be a parent to my step-son though. She doesn’t much like me telling him what to do, for example. Heck he doesn’t like it and the dad doesn’t like it either. I’m not talking about spanking or using force here - I don’t have a huge problem with spanking kids (I was) but I don’t do it myself, nor does my wife. I can say “please wash the dishes” but when he refuses (as he does, which is normal enough for a child) then any fight that breaks out over this results in my wife giving me the silent treatment (“ST” from now on). She is stressed and doesn’t know what to do so she clams up. I guess the bottom line is that she is very protective of the step-son. She feels like he has had a raw deal I guess and shouldn’t have to deal with me making demands.

Now “our” son, who is much younger than his half-brother, she has no such issues with. Of course we have disagreements over the best way to do some things but over all we are in agreement on how to rear him. Both kids are fine looking young men that anyone would love to know and be around (really!) but with very different personalities. There are a few conflicts over the years because the older step-son tries to manipulate his brother a lot, I won’t stand for it and conflict ensues (“what? I didn’t do anything!”). Mostly petty stuff. As the younger son reaches his early teens he learns to dig in his heels and not put up with it.

Fast forward nearly 20 years. The son is away at college, the step-son is in his late 20s, living “on his own” which means that his mom is only paying for some of his major expenses. He never finished college but he works some and can generally make rent while she pays for cell-phone, insurance, and cash and groceries sometimes at the end of the month. He drives a car his grandparents gave him and but it is almost dead and so we help with repairs. They don’t tell me how much money is being paid out; I am just learning some of it like the plasma TV that she “helped” him with (cosigned and then had to pay for). This has gone on for years.

Last November the step-son finds out his father has cancer. He has had a lot of health problems over the years and isn’t in very good shape to start with so this is not good news. They decide that step-son will move to his city and live with him for his last days which they say is no more than 6 months. All (including myself) agree this is a good plan. Step-son isn’t working much anyway so this will allow him a place to live and we will support him while he helps his dad. Step-son immediately quits his job and plans to move to our house while he rents his place and gets things in order before the move. This was November, let us not forget. He fiddled around for a month before actually moving to our house full time. Mostly he would crash at our house during the week and then at his place on the weekends. As he came and went he would move a car load of stuff.

Now here we are, it’s early April. My wife is no longer talking to me and my step-son is still living in my house, not working, not even helping with basic stuff like picking up after himself. His mom does all that stuff for him. I’ve been hearing for four months how he is going to move to his dad’s “probably in a week or two” and just finally couldn’t take it any more. A few weeks ago (mid March) as I was getting ready for work I found him passed out on the sofa (not unusual) with his bong and pot laid out on the coffee table. I knew he smokes pot, I don’t care, but the fact that he can afford dope but can’t afford food and that he doesn’t care enough to at least hide the stuff just pushed me over the edge. I told him his time was up, time to move out. He took it pretty well at the time. Said he was planning to make a plane reservation that day anyway (yeah, right). Except … it never quite happens. Days go by and no reservation. There aren’t any flights between our major cities(!) He had a reservation, then the airlines lost it and he forgot to tell me(!)

At last we sat down to thrash it out but my wife refuses to participate. She is stressed, I know, and she doesn’t want to see me bullying her baby I guess. So we both rant and rave for a while. He tries to lay the guilt trip on me that his dad is dying; he threatens to just move out and live on the street; he explains how he is helping me by living here so his mom doesn’t have to pay his rent(?); he tells me all kinds of stories about how nobody likes him and how his life sucks, which may be true, even hinting that he “can’t go on”. All of which is neither here on there. It’s been 4 months since we heard of his dad’s immanent death and he is supposed to be moving out there. Oh, that … well, turns out he is doing much better. Probably still dying but they are trying to plan out a vacation together, which is difficult because neither of them has any money, and that is taking a long time. Uncaring asshole that I am, I continue to insist that he leave. We decide that he will get a flight, no messing around anymore, within the week. He agrees with this and I believe he accepts that it is a good idea to move along.

Now my wife refuses to talk to me. They get along famously, hanging out together, laughing and chatting but when I come into the room all I get from her is a glare. When I ask her to talk about it she tells me she is too miserable to talk. An hour later, they are yucking it up over a sitcom.

As I write this I see it is all about my step-son, not much about me or my wife. That how big of a factor he is. He is very charismatic and when he is in the house my wife has no time for anyone else. He makes her miserable with his manipulation, then makes it up to her by telling her his great plan for how everything is going to work out. I am jealous, I admit it. I thought that one day he would move along and get his own life and now I see that the same pattern is just going to repeat forever.

So, somebody tell me why I shouldn’t get a divorce? I still love my wife but I’m not so sure she feels the same. Even if she does, I dread the prospect of going through this every few years because she can’t say no to her fully grown son. What am I going to do when we are in our seventies and he decides to come live with us?

Thanks for letting me vent.

Individual therapy.

Then marriage counseling.

Then divorce, if need be.

My first instinct was to say give the stepson a deadline and if he’s not out of the house by then, throw him and his stuff out on the lawn.

Then I realized that might push your wife over the edge.

Then I realized that your wife is already over the edge on this whole deal. So I’m back to my original response: remove the primary problem. Get counseling for you and your wife if needed, but put the stepson out of the house ASAP.

I think you need to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with your wife (without the stepson present), and let her know that she either has to stand up to her manipulative sponge of a son (like father like son, huh?) or the marriage is over. That’s really what it comes down to. She has to decide whether she wants to be a doormat for her kid (who is not a kid), or whether she wants to stay married.

It might be a wake-up call for her, it may not. She may choose the kid, in which case, you’re better off without either of them. I think you need to give her the ultimatum and a timeline, though. He’s gone in a week or you are.

I think you’ve already shown more patience than I would have.

I agree with Clothahump, to an extent. Seems you need to remove the step-son from the home equation or it’s a done deal. From how you explained things, it does seem as though he’s the poison pill in the situation. I just don’t know how much throwing his shit out on the lawn is going to help.

I was thinking (and I know this sounds like throwing good money after bad) but what if you were to step up and make all arrangements. Make the reservation, buy the plane ticket, help him pack his shit, drive him to the airport and throw him on the plane. You may be out some bucks that you don’t need to be out of, but it might be a small price to pay for the sake of your marriage.

You and your wife need to sort things out — without the step-son present. Whether that can happen without a counselor, only you can answer, but the silent treatment is no way to treat a spouse. And no grown son has any business living with his parents, unless everyone involved is completely on board.

“Divorce” might be a little premature, but some hard conversations definitely need to take place. Good luck.

Wow. Dopers read fast!

Step-son has a free round trip ticket, he just needs to make the reservation. I should start another pit about those “free” round trip tickets airlines give away when the bump you. Let’s just say it does take a little bit of effort to find a flight that fits into the restrictions, so it’s easy to not get around to it.

It’s not so much trying to get him out of the house this time, he has a reservation now I’m pretty sure, it’s getting my wife to talk to me again and then dealing with the situation when he comes back. I mean, where else is he going to go? I’ve vacillated for so long it just seems like I should rip the bandage off and get it over with.

I can see that you love your wife and you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and she’s the mother of your other son, and it’s complicated. Sorry you’re in this situation.

But if it were me, I’d be leaning toward “divorce them”. Somehow I don’t see her waking up and smelling the coffee regarding your stepson. Her attitude toward him will be VERY difficult to change, and you’ve compromised so much already. I don’t know, maybe I’m cynical.

Even during our roughest times, at least my wife and I spoke to each other. (Hell, half the time I DREAMT of getting the silent treatment instead of endlessly hearing what was wrong with me! :p)

If she won’t even speak with you, I don’t see how you are going to fix things - either on your own or with the assistance of counseling. I think it is worthwhile to at least give counseling a shot. I’d probably try couples counseling first. From what you say, it doesn’t really sound to me like you need counseling.

I’m generally not a huge fan of counseling. It can be hard to find someone whose approach meshes with you. But I would think it is at least a good “test” of your wife’s committment to your marriage. Heck, if she isn’t even willing to sit down with you with a counsellor, it doesn’t sound like there is all that much of a marriage left to save.

On the good side, at least your kid(s) are of an age, that the divorce will not be as traumatic as it otherwise might be.

Don’t drop any ultimatums. But clearly communicate that you are not willing to simply continue the way things have been for some time - with her kid negatively impacting your home and life, negatively impacting your kid, and with him and your wife “teaming up” to make you uncomfortable in your own home.

Make an effort to see if there is anything there worth saving. But if there isn’t, then cut your losses and start writing the next chapter of your life.

Good luck.

My advice is to sit your wife down and tell her that you are actually considering divorce because of how bad the situation has become. Tell her you love her (if you still do) and want to fix the situation, but how can you fix it if she won’t even talk to you? Tell her you want to discuss the situation with a neutral third party – and I think the neutral third party is key, because she is NEVER going to listen to reality where her son is concerned if the information is coming from YOU, she is too invested in considering you the opponent where he is concerned. “Neutral third party” means marriage counselling. If she won’t agree to that, then you will have to decide whether you can live with the current situation or whether the one moving out (and on) will be you.

But then I’ve never been married, so what do I know.

You’re “picking” on her baby. Any mother would get defensive, However, the problem is, she’s enabling him. Your step-son is not a man, and I blame your wife in large part for that.

I agree with the other posters…if your wife is not willing to sit down and discuss this without step-son present, I think it’s time for you to leave and leave her holding the bag. Either she’ll go on enabling her “baby” or she’ll get sick of his crap real quick. It sounds like your other son is doing well and out on his own, so do what you need to do for your own sanity.

If what you say is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, your wife is being extremely unfair to you. I’m sorry to hear it. You have to firmly stand up for yourself without being a dick or being unfair back to her. If she doesn’t change, then she doesn’t care about you.

First impression?

The step-son is an addict (he reminds me of me as a late teen) and your wife and his grandparents are classic enablers. As long as they are willing to pick up his tab, he has no reason to change.

I remember, back in the day when I spent a lot of time in self-help groups, learning from John Bradshaw that when a parent has an emotional relationship with their child that’s more important than their marriage it’s emotional incest. His theory is that the marriage is the foundation on which the family is built (yes, even blended families) and if that foundation isn’t solid things go awry.

That’s what you’re dealing with. Seems like you and your wife never really worked out the ground rules on how the step-son should be raised and you and she are reaping the consequences now with her siding more with him the more she’s pushed.

I wonder if she’d even agree to marriage counseling?

And I wonder about your step-son. It seems like he might have mental health issues.

The one thing I’d have to put my foot down about is the pot. Having that in your house puts all of you in jeopardy. I don’t necessarily believe that smoking pot is a bad thing but I am fully aware that it’s illegal.

FTR - I hate the silent treatment. Give me someone who will at least argue with me.

I don’t really know what the right answer is but I thought the story of a relative of mine might be useful.

He was about 20 years older than me; he graduated college in the early 1950s and was married around the same time. Him and his wife had their first of three children in 1960. In 1972 his wife was killed in a car accident and he was seriously injured (but made a full recovery.) In 1974 he met his second wife, who was a wonderful woman and who had two children of her own.

To a large degree he desperately needed a wife at that point, he was a very typical man of his generation. He was a pharmacist (this come into play later), worked long hours and knew little to nothing about housekeeping or raising children. After his first wife died he had moved back in with his parents so that his mother could help with the children because he was completely incapable of doing so himself.

They were permissive parents, he ceded most of his parenting duties over to his second wife who in turn allowed the kids to do pretty much whatever they wanted. Four of them turned out fine (his own three children and one of his step-children), all of them except the oldest lived at home til their early to mid 20s, though. They were the type of parents who didn’t really push any of their children out of the nest.

The step son, however just wasn’t the sort of person that was ever going to make anything of himself without some sort of driving force. He finally moved out for a little while when he joined the Air Force but he was quickly kicked out due to his drug use. While he was into heavier drugs than pot, that was what he usually did. From 1980-2002 or so this step son lived with them off and on. He would sometimes be out on his “own” for 3-4 years at a time, he’d sometimes even get married. He went through many marriages and had many children that he couldn’t support. Several times his step father went as far as to buy homes for him and financed his day-to-day life. His step father hated this situation, he hated that his deadbeat step son was allowed to walk all over him. He hated that he was a known drug addict who on multiple occasions had the police at his home (keep in mind he was a pharmacist and having a drug addict in the house created endless shame for him, this was a small town where everyone knew everything.) But he could never do anything about it because it was his wife’s son, and she’d never hear anything negative about her baby. To her he was just incessantly in need of help and it was her responsibility to help him.

They never got divorced but from all accounts he was miserable about this situation that literally plagued his life and his finances for 20+ years. Finally a few years ago he died of a heart attack, his wife died not long afterward and from what I understand the step son is now completely lost to the world, most likely homeless somewhere as he has never been able to hold down a job. It is known that he blew through a moderately sized inheritance in one year or so.

I think the way I see it is, if someone is totally unable to do anything with their life there is only so much you can do to protect them from that. If you’re wealthy, then it may be fine. But if not, then all you’ll do is destroy your life trying to prop his up, and then when you guys end up dying (and most likely this will happen years before the step son does) the end result will be the same.

I don’t know your situation but I did know this one, for what it’s worth I always told this relative he shouldn’t let his life get destroyed by someone else. It’s a hard thing, though, marriages aren’t something to be thrown away lightly. Knowing what I know about your situation I think you should tell your wife where you think this is headed and tell her that even though you love her you aren’t willing to let your life get destroyed for the sake of her son’s.

I feel for you - what a miserable situation.

I agree that outside intervention is the answer. Go yourself if your wife won’t go with you.

My ex-husband used to do the silent treatment quite a bit. Then I began using what in dog training is called “extinction training” or some such. Basically, it means ignoring the behavior but not the person. How this worked in my instance was to stop playing by the silent treatment rules, instead striking up normal conversation and asking him direct questions such as “Do you think it will rain?” At first he seemed confused, didn’t I understand that I was getting the treatment? But, when it stopped paying off for him he stopped doing it. You might consider something like this.

Yea I hate the silent treatment more than anything. My wife does it but it’s not even on the same scale as what you describe. She’ll come around and talk to me like an hour later. I do it to her sometimes too, but it never lasts so long.

If you see no end in sight then yeah you need to leave. Let her know you are considering leaving.

It’s so disheartening to hear your story.

My brother and sister-in-law are in a similar situation although her oldest daughter is 24. And they have 3 kids together. They have never been on the same page as far as discipline goes and the kids already know how to divide and conquer.

I’d second the advice to see a family counselor, one who will help you come to a mutual agreement as to how the rules should work, not just for the step-son but for the biological son. At the end of the day, our job as parents is to raise our children to be self-supporting, honest people. Having an unemployed son living on your couch smoking weed all day is a pretty clear signal that you’ve failed.

There’s hope, but only if YOU do with your wife what you should have done with your sons all along. Establish rules and outline consequences. And then follow through with them.

“If you don’t agree to talk to to to a family counselor so that we can come to some sort of game plan for how we’re going to resolve our differences, then I have no choice but to file for a legal separation.”

And then do it. Nothing talks more than action.

Thanks for the support and for letting me vent. I feel much better than I did this morning anyway. Already have a line on some marriage counseling and I’m going to drop the information on my wife tonight whether she wants to listen or not.

Of course my story is one sided and I’m sure my wife would tell a different story. I should add that I also clam up when pissed off too. It makes for a silent but useless house. Heck, silently gnashing teeth and holding in anger and disappointment worked for my parents for years so it must be the way to go, right?

The step-son has some emotional/mental health issues, we all know. He has had testing done when little, which told us his IQ was very high but not much else, and some counseling over the years. I paid for a psychiatrist once. The doc prescribed him some mood-altering drugs on the first visit and he never went back. Of course, it was all confidential so I could never knew what went on; just the one bill showed up though so we know he only went once. Now he says it is useless because he “knows himself” and knows that they will never understand him.

This is where we are I think. I can feel the anchor about to pull me under the water, she thinks things are about to turn around based upon the great plan he has described to her. Somehow, this time it’s different from all the other times.

Tell your wife that your marriage is in trouble, that you really want to work things out, but how can you when she won’t talk about what’s wrong? Tell her you would like to get a neutral third party to help, i.e. a marriage counselor. Tell her the only way your marriage has any hope of surviving is if you talk to each other. Being stressed is not an excuse for avoiding the problem. It won’t get better if you avoid it, and the stress will still be there, just get worse the longer you avoid it.