I pit my wife and her son. Should I divorce them?

Rascal’s Mom said:

If you live in such a small village, they already know about all the troubles. Preserve a sense of dignity? Ain’t gonna happen. You’re already rumor fodder. Some people may think you a saint for putting up with his crap, others may think you a doormat for the same reason. You know what? Nothing you do will make everyone happy or protect your reputation. You have very little control over your reputation. People see your actions and judge them by their own biases.

I’m not telling you to kick him out. That is your decision to make, whether it is right, whether he deserves it. But don’t base the decision on what other people will think, because they’re not the ones living it. If you want him gone, call the police. If he doesn’t share ownership of the property or pay rent, he’s a guest, and if you revoke permission, that makes him a trespasser.

I haven’t witnessed this exact thing, but do know of two cases of forced eviction. One was in a college dorm. Some guy living with his girlfriend in her room - not supposed to be there. I was standing around in the hallway when the campus cop volunteered me to help carry stuff so he wouldn’t have to make several trips.

Similarly, a guy I knew had his girlfriend call the cops to evict him. The cops were there while he moved out all his stuff. Don’t know what that was about, but that guy wasn’t mean or abusive or anything, so I don’t know why she felt she needed the police to make it happen.

Note the past tense, though. I said “I have lived this.” I should have emphasized that the tumultuous nature of our relationship has smoothed out a LOT over the past year. He is no longer doing the stuff that got him in trouble and I am helping him get on his feet. We are in frequent discussion about what he needs to do next to get out of his financial hole, and he is doing it. There’s a fairly huge difference between the OP’s son and mine.

This +1.

I mean, if for no other reason, kick the bum out FOR HIS SAKE. He needs to grow up or else he’ll be a worthless tit his whole life.

I agree. I’m working on the problem of convincing my wife that this is a good course of action. Or else just giving up on both of them.

For those still watching the drama - We have an appointment to see a counselor in a week, she has agreed to go. Still giving me the silent treatment but it’s hard to tell because I just don’t go home much, except to sleep.

I’m not sure there is anything horribly wrong about being a worthless tit, if you can afford to. The problem is that most of us do not outlive our children - and while sitting on the couch getting high and being a worthless tit isn’t inspiring, it isn’t tragic either.

Being 40 and having to support yourself for the first time, discovering that your mother has mortgaged everything she has to support you through her retirement and discovering you are broke with no skills and no motivation - that has tragic written all over it.

I want my kids to grow up to be independent adults - because once they are - I want to be a worthless tit for a few years.

What I generally find wrong with it is that you have a full grown adult who requires more and more resources from aging parents. In the case of my uncle it’s not a terrible situation because now he takes care of our 90 year old grandma. So now it’s like why bother moving out at this point. But in the case of my girlfriend’s idiot 26 yera old brother, it’s like WTF. He graduated college with shit grades. Dabbled around with different jobs but always moves back home when his finances go to shit. When he’s home, he works, but he spends all his money going out with his idiot friends and being a pain in the ass to his family.

And what always happens is these families coddle these losers. “Oh he’s trying”, “he can’t afford to find a place”, “he has a couple of things in the works”, “you have to respect his choices”. Bullshit. He’s a fucking lazy bum who only lives at home because it’s a convenient safety net for approaching your bullshit job half-assed and you can live like someone making 3x your income because it’s all paid for. Take care of yourself like an adult and then I’ll respect your decisions.

I’m not recommending it, but you might show your wife you are serious by moving out yourself, and, this is important, by stopping to pay all the bills on the house and joint credit cards.
That might be a way to fill in the … " or else".

I have a friend with such a brother, and the family has a lot of concern. She has three kids of her own to raise and not enough resources (or the desire) to take on her brother. Her parents are getting to the age where they are putting their affairs in order - they might live 20 years yet (they are in their 60s), but family history has them living another decade or so. And the parents are worried. What happens to useless 40 year old son when they die and he doesn’t have a basement to live in?

Convincing your wife to let go of her role as your stepson’s rescuer will be a difficult and delicate process, and her willingness to see a counsellor with you is a really good sign – kudos to you for making that happen. My friends and family tried their damndest to make me see sense regarding Jimmy by using tough love but ironically, it merely made “poor Jimmy” seem more sympathetic. You see, he was gently working his role of helpless victim using a combination of gratitude and guilt; I got to be his hero by supporting him. Meanwhile, my sisters were calling me a chump and Jimmy a user. They were right of course but if I believed them I’d have to face the fact that I was a fool instead a kind, loving and supportive girlfriend, so I blocked them out and stubbornly waited for Jimmy to prove them wrong. (More than eight years after the fact and I’m still embarrassed.)

Then they tried a different approach. Once they focussed their efforts on how much they loved me and wanted what was best for me instead of how much they hated Jimmy, it was easier to stand up for myself and stop being used. I’m hoping that hearing some home truths from an impartial counsellor (instead of the mean ole stepdad who just won’t give the poor kid a break) will have the same effect on your wife. Good luck, shiftless; I can relate to the urge to just turtle up and/or avoid your home and give you mad props for seeking outside help. (Do people still say “mad props”?)

Oh, and I concur with Maastricht’s suggestion to separate the finances where/if possible. If your wife wants to finance the lifestyle of a “worthless tit”, let her literally pay the price.

Two of my three brothers will find themselves in that position one day; I dread the knock on my door.

Sorry for coming in so late, but… this actually reminds me of what a friend who’s a children’s counselor was saying about a 5 year old child of one of our friends, and it’s completely relevant here and in so many other situations. I mention it because though it sounds simple it’s a brilliant observation and one I hadn’t really thought of it in these terms until she said it and is equally true of 4 year olds or 50 year olds.

Your stepson is a spoiled and the most important thing to know about a spoiled brat is this:

A SPOILED BRAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATEVER TO CHANGE.

THEY WOULD IN FACT BE A FOOL TO CHANGE.

THEIR WORLD IS PERFECT. THEY KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO GET WHAT THEY WANT.

BEING A SPOILED BRAT IS IN FACT GOOD WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT.

IT’S A DREAM JOB. YOU DON’T QUIT A DREAM JOB.

Sorry for the caps, but… they’re for emphasis, not screaming. Since nobody is going to quit a dream job, if you want them gone then they have to be fired, and your wife as his bio parent is senior partner in the firm. However if you tell her that one of you must be downsized, but don’t be surprised if she chooses her son because even very intelligent and wonderful people can make some truly stupid choices.

I’d recommend going to see a divorce lawyer and start organizing things now. This mother and son are going to be happy in their relationship until one of them passes on, and that can be quite a while from now. You will have more money when you are single and can still see the woman, but don’t let her move in with you again. She has chosen the human male she wants to live the rest of her life with, and it isn’t you. Your wife has run off with another “man” under your own roof. It’s her way or the highway. You are a doormat.

Ouch. Why don’t you just stab me in the heart? You have stated almost my exact thoughts over the last few days, except for the doormat part, I hope. I have been MISTAKEN for a doormat and that is going to change, one way or another. Even creepier, he has become his dad - her ex-husband, with all the same tricks and promises that she ran away from 20 some odd years ago.

Blended families have all kinds of issues and this whole thing has simmered for years of course. He had no desire to live at home and no desire to interact with us when he didn’t need something except for the usual holidays. Really, not that different from what I think is normal moving on in life behavior except that he never got any traction with getting and education and/or job. I think, over the years, my wife has found herself “helping” him more and more and trying to hide it from me because she is embarrassed for him and for herself.

As Sampiro points out, taking from his mom is his job, he is good at his job and why should he stop? Over the years he has had to up his game to the point of risking losing it all and having to live on the streets, what I call holding himself hostage, in order to get her to come through with the cash. It’s working though. He is very smart, very charismatic and very manipulative - he really should be an Enron executive. What’s a Mom to do? Where does she draw the line?

A lot of you have mentioned what will happen 20, 30, 40 years from now when we are gone. These thoughts have also been running though my mind. I picture a 40 or 50 year old man having to suddenly figure out how to support himself - that ain’t pretty. The years leading up to it aren’t going to be happy either. I dream of one day retiring and being the “worthless tit” myself :slight_smile: and every time I picture that dream it suddenly gets crashed by the image of a 40 year old in his underwear, lounging on my sofa, asking what’s for dinner. Eck!

Anyway, the whole thing came home to roost with my sad OP story. He has reached the point where he can’t support himself and needed to live with us for a short time. With his toe in the door, and a true story worthy of sympathy, he has managed to get what he wants for a while.

I’ve picked a law firm (haven’t called just yet). I’ve looked at places to move to(Christ on a stick - rents have gone up over the last 20 years!). I’ve got us an appointment with a counselor and she has agreed to go. And the step-son is showing signs of getting on that plane at last - they claim they have a date but I’ve heard that before. I believe my wife thinks that once he is gone we can patch things up; like my problem is just having a guest stay too long or something. It’s good to be moving in a positive direction - I am NOT a doormat, I am NOT a doormat, I am …

I want you to go out right now and rent “Step Brothers”.

My sister is/was one of these coddled “poor babies” who never learned to live on her own. Although she moved out of the parental home at a reasonable age, she seldom made enough money to pay for her own apartment. She was in the habit of quitting every job she got and then crying to mom for more money to see her through to the next one. It was never her fault, though. New jobs got harder and harder to find, and it was always because she was “too fat” and people were prejudiced against her.

Well, mom died of Alzheimer’s two years ago, when my sister was in her mid-fifties. She managed to find and keep a decent job when she saw the writing on the wall, but is in a constant state of whimper about how she wants to quit. I, too, dread that call on the day she is looking for someone else to support her. My husband and I are in our fifties, and it’ll be all we can do to support ourselves.

My half-brothers are growing up just like that. They are totally dependent on their (our) mother. They got the elder one a job, driving a truck, but he claimed he couldn’t get up on the steps to get in the cab (admittedly he is very fat) so instead of looking for another job or just saying “suck it up, you’re 18 and not going to college, you need a job,” she just let him quit.

I am also waiting for the knock on my door. My SO, who is one of the most understanding guys in the world, makes a face when I tell him about these two. I don’t blame him. They’ve grown up so dependent it’s scary.

I lived at home til more than a reasonable age for moving out for many reasons- most of them financial (I moved out but moved back in), but while there I earned my keep. I paid rent, contributed to groceries, etc., and in fact I actually had the exact opposite problem of the “won’t leave the nest” syndrome in that I WANTED to leave the nest and when I could afford it I tried to but my mother had absolute fits over it; she didn’t want me to go. When I did leave (late 20s) the guilt cannons started blasting and rarely had cease fires for the next 10 years.

What always irked me though were the people I knew- including several of my cousins and friends- who did have their own apartments, wouldn’t dream of moving back in with their parents, and were always harping for me to “Leave home and be a grownup!”, yet whenever they were short on money or losing their jobs (because low and behold whaddya know, this boss is a jerk just like the last 3 were) or about to have their utilities disconnected after buying a $1000 guitar or going to Taos, they’d speed dial the same parents for money without a qualm. For me this “subsidized independence” wasn’t an option- my mother wasn’t wealthy and I wasn’t about to have her do without anything to bail out my ass.

I’m a big believer in the “when you leave your parent’s house for your own, the next time you enter it you’re a guest”, and also of “If you’re 35 and living with your mom and you don’t like her rules, then… tough, the house belongs to whoever’s paying for it”. I believe that a parent has a moral obligation to help out an adult child financially only if they can afford it and the child is a financial bind due to no great fault of their own (i.e. if the adult kid is laid off from a job or has to have surgery, there’s a moral obligation; if the adult kid just cannot manage money and buys $20,000 worth of crap on their credit cards, there’s no obligation), but I believe that the adult child has exactly the same moral obligation to their parents (in my case it wasn’t money but it was sleeping on hospital room floors when I could get the time off from work or moving back in to be caregiver). I don’t think there’s any obligation to support a kid who’s trying to find himself/herself when they’re an adult and capable of working and contributing but choose not to (though I’ll admit the fact I never had the option of loafing and partying and traveling on someone else’s dime has a lot to do with this).

(Boy, you do run-on sentences! I can’t figure out where to cut this quote! :))

But I totally agree with this. I have never asked my mother for money.True, we have a contentious relationship to begin with, but honestly, I have never needed it. What I mean by that is, I was poor but never destitute, so I never held my hand out.

However, she gave me money twice over the years and she handed me down her old car. I was confident that she could afford it and it was meant as a gift so I took it graciously. I’d not ask for it, though.

Now I think if parents want to give and can afford to give to their adult children, why the hell not? But too often it seems like there is an expectation on the kids’ behalf that the money will be there. There should never be an expectation that either set of parents will pay for the wedding, for example - if they can, great, if not - pay for it yourself!

OK I admit I’ve skim read the thread, so someone else may have stated this;

But maybe the guy’s just very confused about what he feels for his father? Maybe he recognises that he was never truly there for him and doesn’t know whether to treat him as a father figure or a friend (you said he was the “weekend dad”?).

Has he had any other close relatives die? Have you or his mother ever talked to him about what he feels regarding his blood father? People generally aren’t born emotionally mature individuals, sometimes it takes a bit of coaching and wisdom from those that have experienced a bit more.

I guess I’d also suggest talking with him about what his actions are doing to your relationship, I’m sure he wants his mother to be happy.

~From a 21 year old who lives at home.

We have an 18 year old leech living in our house. He is my wife’s son. She is afraid that he will fall into the drug trade if she kicks him out of the house. So she has continually made allowances and excuses.

Some of the issues:
He is one of the worse liars on the planet, but he insists on telling lies that he thinks will explain his actions. It is almost worth it to hear the stories he comes up with.

He smokes weed all the time. When he can’t find weed, he begs for alcohol. He says he needs the alcohol to help him get to sleep at night. Getting up before 4pm would help him sleep at night, too, AFAIC

She pretty much had to do all his schoolwork to get him to finish high school. He was taking correspondence courses, so she pretty much did everything but the final exam for a number of them. All the while she was working on changing her career and should have been spending her time on that.

She drives him to work when he does work because he stays up all night partying, smoking weed, or just playing computer games. So the poor dear is too tired to get up on his own and make it to the bus stop (assuming he knows where the bus stops and when. He has made the claim before that he doesn’t).

She got him two jobs as an apprentice mechanic for which he essentially got fired from both. He was so bad at the jobs that both garages pretty much refused to give him back his apprentice book even though it is required by law. I can only assume that they thought it was more important to get a fine than inflict him upon the automotive industry. The one job where he showed some promise, he told his boss he was taking his birthday off. When the boss said the schedule was set and he couldn’t change it, he still didn’t show up for work, so was fired because of it.

He refuses to follow our simple rules which pretty much are: No friends overnight. Clean up after yourself. Get and keep a job. No smoking in the house. No drugs. Don’t stay up all night rattling around the house.

In January, my wife and I went down to AADAC, a drug addiction center in Alberta, to meet with a counselor. He suggested a number of actions that my wife discarded as too harsh.

I have spent the last number of years feeling like a hostage in my own house. My wife feels the same way even though she coddles him. Regardless, in February we finally set a date of the end of June for him to be out of the house. When we tell him this, he acknowledges that we’ve talked to him, agrees to live by the rules until then, and then promptly violates them later that night. We told him no overnight visitors. So, he brings in an acquaintance, a guy we find out he barely knows, who got kicked out if his house for selling drugs at school. Just what we want: another drug addled kid living in our house! Probably casing the joint. He would sneak him in after we’d gone to sleep. They were too stupid to smuggle him out before we got up in the morning, so that is how we found out about it. That and the fact that neither of them can figure out how to clean up after themselves in the kitchen.

So, two weeks ago, while I was at work (I work overseas 5 weeks on then 5 weeks at home, which also causes major issues, not the least of which is how I can enforce rules when I am not there), my wife had the locks changed and told her kid that he will be out of the house by 9am and won’t be allowed back in until dinner time. If he doesn’t show up before 10pm, he needs to find another place to stay the night.
She finally got it right when she said, “Why should I worry more about his future than he does such that it affects the ability of me to live my own life?” Which is essentially what the counselor had told us in January. I guess she was finally pissed off enough after being woken up again up at 3am by the party in the basement (which oddly enough doesn’t occur when I’m at home).

shiftless (and others): My household has many step-child issues as well, though not the same as yours. I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been thinking of you and wishing you well. I hope there will be a happy ending to this story.