As scintillating and stimulating as this lengthy sidebar on the subject of influence metrics has been, I think it’s worth returning to the actual argument this guy thinks he’s making, that Trump is (ineptly) acting on a messaging strategy being fed him by people with their finger on the pulse of Black political subcultures, to wit, that there is a meaningful subset of potential voters, specifically young Black men, who due to identity issues are primed to be carved away from the larger body of Kamala supporters using an overtly racist appeal to this group’s own brand of racism, and that this can be accomplished without creating blowback support in other voters such that the net effect will be helpful to Trump.
Yeah, no, I think this is horseshit.
This doesn’t sound like someone reporting back to the board with real knowledge about people who aren’t well represented here. It doesn’t sound like insight. It sounds like the astroturfing efforts of a political consultant who believes he knows how “those people” think, or at least can simulate having that knowledge, in order to manufacture the perception of a significant political divide that is worthy of attention and discussion.
Because that’s his refrain. He keeps saying he has cites for the background, but they’re few and far between, and when they’re offered they’re poor quality at best. But he nevertheless keeps saying, you don’t have to like it, but it’s the truth, you have to take it seriously, you have to talk about it, you have to face it and deal with it.
Really. A bunch of white people need to start chattering about whether Kamala is “Black enough,” or perceived that way by this mysterious subset of young Black men, insofar as Trump is trying to push those buttons and puff up those divisions. That’s what we need to be talking about. That’s a problem we need to solve.
Because if there’s anything Black people love, it’s white people sticking their noses into the pain points of Black identity politics.
What, pray tell, does he think we should do about it? Even if it were true (it isn’t) there’s not much offered to the good folks at SDMB to counteract it.
I think that’s giving too much credit. Remember this same person believes that 9/11 was an inside job and Cosby did no wrong, and has subscribed to other conspiracy theories. Don’t assume competence of any kind, even nefarious competence. This is a simple nut.
What I love the mostest is that he accuses us of calling him a racist because we will not blindly accept his claim that a significant number of Black men are racist and misogynist.
In my experience ‘It’s the blacks that are the real racists!’ is straight out of White Supremacy for Dummies playbook.
So, ya know, I’m sure there are social differences between Black Americans whose families have been here since slavery, and Black immigrants. And i have no idea how that plays out with their kids, but it’s certainly possible some differences persist for a generation or more. But I’m certain that an old white guy trying to white-splain to a bunch of Black journalists who they ought to accept as “really Black” is not going to go over well.
Not to hijack (is that a thing in the Pit?) or dilute the hatefest, but I’m honestly not sure why @split_p_j is being pitted, except for ostensively hijacking the thread about the NBJA convention.
Might there be something to learn? Why is what he’s saying considered trollish? As horrified by the prospect of another DJT administration as we all are, can we afford to dismiss anything / everything that doesn’t align with our preconceived notions?
Speaking for myself, he correctly identified that I’m older( well, a couple years older than he), don’t get my news from Youtube and the like, and really have no idea what particular(if any)Black groups are feeling. For what is’s worth, I was adopted by a white, Jewish family and raised as such, but having found my bio family, my father’s side is Black. Bio dad is the “white sheep” of his family because of his rejection of Black culture. Since getting to know him, I’ve gained a bit of insight into the subject and @split_p_j’s comments mesh with a lot of what he’s shared with me.
I’m still the same dyed in the wool Democrat, peace loving, ignorance fighting SDMB faithful that I’ve been all these years; I just think there might be some shooting of the messenger going on here.
Would his message have been better received if he’d started his own thread? Is anyone interested or open to starting a new, non-combative thread to discuss the issue? Maybe I’m talking out of my ass (entirely possible) but I find myself puzzled by the reactions here.
Well, there was the time when PJ said that women who get drunk deserve rape.
So, that’s kind of bad I would think.
That’s a starter.
(And I mean a starter. This is a very, very long thread. There’s also conspiracy theories, racism, denial of logic… And don’t forgot PJ had to be banned from the original discussion thread.)
Thank you for your kind and respectful response, @Atamasama. It’s possible that I ignored( but more likely didn’t see )his prior posts, and I really am being sincere(if a bit naive) in my questions. So, fair enough.
I still wonder if it might be of value to think about/ discuss some of his points - with or without his participation- but for now you’ve answered my initial question.
Agree. Symone Sanders on MSNBC this morning said that Trump was trying to attract Black voters who don’t think Harris is Black enough. So while we got sidetracked as Split_p_j tried to prove via YouTube subscribers that there are a significant number of Blacks who think this way it is real.
Yes, there is certainly potential value in a discussion of the merits of how the black vote (certainly not monolithic) can be split and how the Trump campaign can attempt to make some gains there. But certainly without his participation.
It’s basically the old bit about a blind squirrel finding an acorn once in a while.
To introduce more metaphors, there’s one or two nuggets of corn in the vast pile of shit he produces.
But I get it. If your only exposure is one of those rare nuggets with only a modest amount of shit, the reception from other posters may seem out of line. But to see it from their point of view, those folks are too tired of having all that feces thrown at them time and again to ever appreciate the occasional kernel of shit-covered corn.
And yes, they are shit-covered. This is somebody that continues to assert that black Americans do not really consider Barack Obama one of them.
So definitely without his participation would be better if you want to extract one of those kernels from all that feces.
Dealing with the other issues is not worth it. As above and throughout this very thread, that particular poster not only expresses some ludicrous beliefs (9/11 trutherism; defending Bill Cosby’s rapes; massive misogyny in general; several outright racist posts), they do so in ways that violate board culture (not backing assertions with evidence; when he does present evidence, presenting things that do not actually say what he says; repetitively repeating the same things rather than engage posters on his points; saying it is up to others to prove his points for him).
If anyone has Sirius radio, listen to the Michelangelo Signorile Show on the Progress channel from yesterday, 08/02/24.
Every Friday he has a segment with Eleanor Clift. On yesterdays she instantly understood what Trump was trying to do, which was exactly what I’ve been saying he is trying to do. She questions how effective the strategy will be, as do I but there is a strategy here.
She gave an estimate that it could be as high as 10% of young, as in 18-35, black males that could be receptive to that message. And yes, it has to do with misogyny, as she herself says. She says about 10% of young black males see Trump as a strong alpha male type. I don’t know how I can link to it but it’s about 1.5 hours into the show.
This is an 84-year-old white woman, and she instantly understood what he was trying to do, and why. It’s not to sure up the MAGA base.
I don’t understand why this board is having such a hard time with it, other than because I’m the one giving the message.
Every time I provide cites backing up how I form my opinions, they get dismissed or nitpicked. I mean fuck, we have an advertising executive claiming my links are bots, even though the views are up to 30 and 40K or more.
I’m sure my cite of a show on a popular satellite radio channel will be dismissed as well.
Ok so this board is trying to ban me for not following in lockstep with the general views of the board, which is a newer change. So now when someone like you asks a reasonable question about me, they take my many posts out of context. To the point of libelous statements saying I’m not black, or that I’m a racist. They are creating their own bubble.
They have banned many posters with different views, usually by pilling on so the moderators act. I can basically only post here now.
I’ve been an active poster here for years and lurking for just about 20 years, and as I’ve said this is a newer trend.
I will admit it some of it is my fault as I’m not as good as some here at typing my thoughts and that makes it easy for them to take a random quote from me out of context.
I obviously can’t give the background of the conversations that led up to the so-called damming quotes now. Just know that it was part of flowing conversation before they purged dissenting voices from the board.
I expect the banning, but it won’t really change anything. She will win the black vote overall of course and I have changed my mind and think that Harris can become President but it’s not a sure thing.
If she loses it will be because of low young black turnout in the swing states. I hope that I am wrong.
Most people are taking what Trump was doing at the conference the wrong way and may wind up looking like fools if he wins.
I’ll guess we’ll have to wait to after the election and see if the numbers for the demograph I’m talking about are within my range.
Which, for the record, I agree with Eleanor Clift. About 10% of black male voters aged 18-35.
