I pit women who can get pregnant without even trying...

The BBQ Pit
61

I think (and this is my interpretation, only) but the OP was overstating the pain she feels at her fertility problems. It’s not so much a hate as resentment at the unfairness of the world. What should be a natural process for a woman becomes a hurdle that requires time, money, pain and technology. While you wait for hormone levels to go up you pray that the last round of drugs worked. When the levels are good, you pray that the fertilization works. When the hormone levels show that fertilization worked you pray that the levels keep increasing. If they don’t, you pray that the hormone shots will work until the embryo takes up the task. If hormone levels are OK, you pray you make it through the first trimester when most losses occur. If you make it through that, you pray to make it through the second trimester. You worry before every ultrasound visit that development is going OK and you worry afterwards that nothing goes wrong before the next visit. If you’ve had genetic testing and everything had appeared OK before the pregnancy, you pray there won’t be an anomaly. If there are genetic warnings, you pray they don’t come through this time.

Meantime, you smile when your friend says she is pregnant. You ooh and aah at baby showers, baby pictures, first birthdays, christenings and holiday get togethers. You don’t tell people you are pregnant again because you don’t know if this time it will work. You hide your pain because it hurts other people. You don’t show jealousy that is burning away at your soul.

If all goes well you will take a healthy child home.

We never got that lucky. We would watch as the baby would start slipping down the birth canal. The doctor attempted a cervical cerclage on two of the babies but it wasn’t enough to save them. For the last baby they tried the cervical cerclage and then a trans-abdominal cercalge even though it had only been performed only 79 times worldwide on women who were already pregnant. It seemed to be OK but three days later the water broke anyway. We had to watch our baby slowly being smothered because the amniotic sac wasn’t there to protect him. They pulled him out via a C-section because of the way the cervix was tied off. He lived for 30 minutes and died in my hands. He was 22 weeks along.

I understand the OPs pain and frustration. I understand Tokyo’s pain and frustration. We hurt and want to lash out. How dare someone say that my pain isn’t real! How dare you not say that my struggle and suffering isn’t valid! Who are you to say that your pain is worse than mine!

I don’t hate the people who can have children with no problems. I envy them. I only hate them when they don’t appreciate just what a wonderful gift they’ve been given and how lucky they are. They should cherish those precious children and never let them go. They should go home tonight and look at those beautiful kids, angelic and peaceful when they are asleep or even rambunctious and full of the devil when they are awake. They should hold them close, kiss them on the foreheads and promise them that they will never do anything to hurt them. Whether the child is one minute old or 99 years, that is your baby forever.

To all the people who have lost a child, my heart goes out to you. The pain never goes away completely. It is a scar in our hearts that may get buried but will always be with us. As time passes you may be able to look back at that scar without it ripping open so painfully, but it never leaves.

To those who are struggling to get pregnant, my prayers go out as well. Through the shots, schedules, visits with RE, OB, clinics, ultrasounds (my wife called the internal ultrasound “Willy, the Wonder Wand”) make sure you cling to your partner. Hold each other close, love each other more, try to laugh when you can. Keep the romance in the middle of the scheduled whoopee sessions and kiss each other after IUIs and IVFs so you can remember that all you are going through is built on love.

To the ones who have lost hope of having children naturally, never despair at having a family. There are children out there who need you as much as you need them. You will heal each other and build that family. They might not look like you are act like you but they will become more like you every day. People comment that my daughter makes the same facial expressions as my wife.

And finally, to those who have no intention of having children: be careful what you say to the ones who are struggling. Your comments that “Maybe it wasn’t meant to be”, “You’re young, you can try again,” or “Well, it wasn’t a baby yet” hurt worse than you can possibly imagine. You may never understand just exactly how profound the pain is because in many cases it isn’t only a death of a child but also the death of dreams and hope.

Please. Learn to love each other a little more. Thank you.

62

Oh bullshit. Don’t act so surprised. It had nothing to do with what you said-it was how you said it.

Diplomacy-look it up.

63

Bullshit yourself. You both assigned a tone where there wasn’t one. Fuck off.

64

My opinion means nothing, because I have no children and don’t intend to have any.

I’m going to state it anyway.

TokyoPlayer, your response was entirely justified. I’m only sorry I didn’t say so when I read it, but I didn’t think a CbC person should weigh in. I’m sorry for your loss. I was when I heard about it, and I’m sorry to hear that it’s still so immediate for you.

OperationRipper, for what it’s worth, I read your post in the spirit in which you claim it was given.

This is not something people should be throwing down over. Look at it this way. Life is neither fair nor unfair. It is random and arbitrary.

65

OK, a day later a much calmer about this.

Xnylder, I apologize for going too far on my response. It was uncalled for and I should have kept it check. I also should not have directly compared losses. I wasn’t trying to belittle your loss, rather I was demonstrating that others have losses as well. Obviously, there are better words which I could have used.

Most days are much, much better, but there are still some times when it still huts. Yesterday was a hard day.

I still do believe you are also in the wrong. It is one thing to blame the conditions and something completely different to attack others because they don’t have exactly the same problems which you have. Had you pitted your condition, I would have felt and responded with sympathy; had you gone on a ”poor me” MPSIMS post I would have passed; but when you lash out at those without your problems, that bothers. It does more than bother, it really pisses me off. Still does and still deserves a “fuck off,” and more so, because the ability to conceive naturally is no guaranty for a bowl of cherries.

Many friends were concerns how TW would feel being around others’ babies, but she’s really classy. She feels envy but never hatred. That’s a sign of emotional maturity, which is a requirement for being a good parent.

The second point is the question of money. I find your attitude appalling. If you don’t think that a child is worth spending money, he or she is probably not. The whole thing about bitching about having to spend money to realize the joys of parenthood really, really bothers me. Adoption is not an easy task and much less convenient than ordering a pizza. If you are unable to see this as an investment in love, then I really have to wonder if you understand at all.

66

Yes, in fact, they are.

In Quebec, where the poster lives, as she has stated before. :rolleyes: yourself.

67

Sorry, my US blinders were on. Apologies.
Here, these things are not free. Women start childrearing every day, already thousands of dollars in debt, with nothing to show for it but the baby. This financial burden can be greater than you would think if there were any abnormalities or difficulties with the birth, or if the baby was born premature.

68

They aren’t free in Canada either - they are just pre-paid through Canada’s taxes and socialized medicine system. And in the U.S. my delivery of my bio child was covered through my insurance. Unfortuntaley, I had medical insurance, not adoption insurance - and medical insurance doesn’t pay the social worker who needs to do the home study. My medical insurance didn’t cover a birthmother in Korea (some U.S. insurance WILL cover a U.S. birthmother’s expenses). And, bio or adopted, I had to pay out of pocket for my kids once they were born - for my adopted son that was six months worth of formula, medical care, and diapers while he was in his foster home. It wasn’t that much more expensive than my daughter’s diapers and care here in the U.S.

Also, annoyingly enough, my maternity leave for my daughter was short term disability and I got paid - my son I took unpaid leave. However, having done both - I was disabled after I had my daughter - I couldn’t walk well, I wasn’t getting enough sleep, I had PPD, I was in fairly constant pain for three weeks of the six I was on paid leave. My son - well, we had a few weeks of transitioning him over to our time zone, but it was a whole different deal. You DESERVE disability after giving birth, it isn’t about bonding, its about physical recovery. Time off after adoption is about bonding - equally important, but not a disability.

In the U.S. there is a fairly generous tax credit for adoptive parents and many companies have adoption grant programs where they will give you several thousand dollars towards adoption. Most importantly however, is my outrage at people who can afford vacations and new cars, but pout over the ‘expensive’ nature of adoption. How was my child’s labor and delivery to be paid for? Who pays the social worker? Who compensates his foster mother? Those are my responsibilities and I’m happy to take them on.

69

Sorry if I came off harshly. US blinders are a bit of a pet peeve of mine :slight_smile: I know in the States the financial burden can be very hard on new mothers - one of the reasons I choose to remain a Canadian!

70

TokyoPlayer, I’ve left this to settle a while. I see you have too.

I don’t want to compare losses, grief, or feelings either. I understand that you’ve been through a terrible, terrible situation. I read your threads as you posted them; they were heartbreaking.

That said, a simple “fuck you” would have sufficed.

I came here because I was angry and frustrated. That’s why people use the pit, no? People post rants, and others either agree or disagree, completely or in part. I didn’t start this thread to hear, “oh poor you”. I did it to rage. I was honestly surprised I found any pity at all. That which I found restored a little sense of sanity to me, and I’m grateful. So don’t tell me to post in MPSIMS. I was angry (and still am, albeit at a smoldering level), and was looking for others who might have that same anger looking for daylight.

I’ve been reading along here, trying to learn but also trying not to take anything personally. This thread made me realize I have control and money issues. I realized that much of my anger is based on jealousy, along with a fear of returning to the poverty in which I was raised. I realized that I’ve been moving in cycles, because last year, I was alright discussing and celebrating other people’s babies. I’m not now. So I realized I have to withdraw from certain social situations for another few months, for the good of the people who should be celebrating. I realized that I can’t let my inability to receive the joy that is a child bring others who can down.

Most of all, I realized I’ll be damned before I let someone on a message board make me believe I am a fucking cunt not worthy of raising a dog.

71

Actually, xnylder, I thought I’d share something with you. Believe it or not, it was this whole thread that made me realize how much I really do want to have children (I’ve been in denial for the last six months.) TokyoPlayers words totally drove home to me the value of human life.

And with your situation, I’ll be honest. I’ve always had a bias or a kind of eye-roll response when people complain about infertility and completely dismiss adoption as an option. But since this thread as a whole has totally moved me, and my husband and I have made the decision to adopt in about 3 years, I really had a paradigm shift. You see, I’ve always felt, ever since I was a little girl, that adoption was a part of my purpose in life. I have never EVER had the desire to give birth to a child, but I’ve longed for adoption. I can’t explain why… I’m not even overly fond of your every day random kids (family is different, of course)… but I’ve just always felt on a gut-level committed to it, and this post awakened that need.

So today I was sitting there, thinking about your situation which I could not comprehend, and I asked myself, “What if… what if when we go through with this we find out we’re not eligible to adopt a child?” What if I was told that my dream of adoption was not something I could ever do? Or in the very least, that I would have to struggle the whole way to carry it through, and make many painful sacrifices?

Well, I came around then, to kind of understanding a little bit better where you were coming from. I mean, I’ve learned to accept a lot of shitty circumstances in my life, so I’m not sure I would have pitted anyone for it… but in the very least, I can relate to that core of pain in a way I couldn’t to before.

So, in essence, this thread, start to finish, has changed my life.

Thanks.

72

Good, because if you post again pitting women who can conceive, then I won’t hold back.

73

Noted. I apologized for my tone, and it’s noted that you didn’t.

As requested, I give you a simple, FUCK OFF abeit with the disclaimer in my last post.

74

Double posting is bad enough, let alone triple posting but the more I read this, the worse it gets.

You read this. You knew what was going on. You knew the pain, and you still pitted us? Seriously, what kind of person are you?

75

might I recommend stop reading that post? seriously - I, too, found the OP in bad taste, but if I were personally going through a tragedy right now, the last thing I’d be doing would be intentionally rereading some hurtful words a stranger posted on the internet.
may peace find you.

76

I’m sure that xnylder is laughing about this now.

77

Tokyo, I’m very, very sorry to read that your wife’s pregnancy isn’t going well, but lashing out at xnylder isn’t going to change any of that. I don’t think anybody here is laughing about your circumstances.

I didn’t think this thread was ever a very good idea either, and like Rilchiam, I’m childless-by-choice and didn’t see the need to add my opinions to this thread, but xnylder has a right to her opinions, too. xnylder is not the source of your pain; unfortunately, the universe is.

78

TokyoPlayer, I’m really sorry for what you’re going through, but reviving the bad feelings from this thread isn’t going to help anything.

Thread closed.