And were you suffering from a debilitating mental illness at the time? :rolleyes:
Honestly, I remembered it from “Taxi” with the female driver’s friend’s art showing or something…but now that you say Bosom Buddies, that clicked right into place.
-Tcat
Hey, bit harsh :rolleyes: there…he did qualify it as an “underlying premise.”
There are shades of grey here that can be used to help the kid out. Do you think staying at home doing nothing helps his depression? No, he wallows in it. Being pushed out with a helping/guiding hand could help the meds and therapy take effect. Often the act of doing something for yourself can help depression. And yes, I am speaking from experience. There is something about the fact that I had a wife and kid to feed that kept me from sinking further, made me respect the advice given to me, take my meds everyday and helped me to improve my situation. Sometimes having no choice but to suck up and deal can do wonders.
Or is there another approach that you can suggest?
-Tcat
His medication may not be working properly. I took Prozac for several years. It worked at first, but then the depression returned. I’m now on Effexor which has worked amazingly for me. I’d suggest him visiting a psychiatrist, as they can pinpoint the most approriate depression meds more accurately then your average family doc.
I don’t think it’s harsh at all. WeirdDave recounts his experience as a young partying slacker. If Dan’s son were a garden-variety unmotivated kid, I’d agree that kicking him out of the house might be just the ticket to get things going. If he really is clinically depressed, though, it’s probably the absolute worst thing that could be done.
Does he need to be pushed? Almost certainly. But WeirdDave and friedo are talking about throwing him out of the house. That won’t give him no choice to suck up and deal, because there are other, more morbid options available to him. He doesn’t have dependent kids to motivate him. How well do you think you would have done if your wife had taken the kids and left you in the midst of your depression, and left you to deal with it on your own?
Good point, and my wife was there for me through every minute and I thank her for that incessantly. I would like to think that something like that would have made me work harder and get my shit together so she would return. But, thankfully, that did not occur.
But there is a shade in-between that I feel WeirdDave was alluding to. Kicking out and cutting off is most certainly harsh, but kicking out and calling nightly, helping find work, being there for the dips, etc. can be most helpful. Allowing the pot at all, I feel, was a mistake. Enabling someone to sit at home high all day might be keeping the razor from the wrist momentarily, but…it can also be seen as enabling. Depression can handled in many ways, and one way is to make people face true difficulties so they can overcome them and see their accomplishments and move on. Did you go to work today? Did you go to work on time all week? Did you pay your bills? Did you eat today? etc. Baby steps towards recovery.
My kids will be kicked out at 18. They will know it and will receive my help in preparing for it. This guy can be put on a weaning program. Job. Activities. Apartment. Steps that can be set in place to move in a direction of independence. We are all speculating on the diagnosis, and of course anyone who takes our word as holy writ should be clue-by-four’d. But, a lot of us have seen what doing nothing can do, and what doing the hard thing can accomplish. I too choose the harder response based on my experience.
The job of a parent is to prepare their kids for inclusion into society. Sometimes that is not easy, and difficult decisions must be made. I disagree that forcing someone into a position of responsibility is the worst thing that a parent can do. Again, kicking out and cutting off all ties is the extreme, but there are ways to mitigate this. “Out, but if you fail, we are here to help - not take care of, but help.”
-Tcat
It seems to me that the first step for him has to be quitting the weed. Yes there are people who can handle it, but there are people who can’t, and who are in fact addicted to it. After he’s drug free for a bit the other problems may be easier to solve, or at least you’ll be able to get a clearer look at any underlying issues.
How about this. Tell him if he quits weed cold turkey, possibly with the help of some program or 12-step group, you’ll give him a few months (six?) more at home. But if you catch him smoking weed at all, if you even think you smell it, he’s out the next day. Ask him to turn over his stash and smoking implements. Trust me, even after your raid he still has some. Insist. Keep an eye on him. If he’s off the dope, his energy will increase, if only by a little bit. If you don’t see any improvement, he’s still smoking.
Are there any 12-step type programs that focus on marijuania?
My 32.67 Italian lire: I agree totally and as a person who’s suffered from severe depression that he may well not have any choice about being able to work. I went through a 3 month depressive cycle in my mid 20s where on a good day I brushed my teeth. It’s very true what niblet said- for people who’ve never suffered from clinical depression it’s almost impossible to describe- it’s not a matter of getting a hobby or pulling yourself together.
However, it’s also very true what Qagdop and others said- that while he’s smoking pot he’s not going to respond properly to anti-depressants. I’ve been through this one with self-medicating friends (personally I never self-medicated, other than I tend to eat more when I’m depressed) and I think Dan Blather is 100% reasonable to not want pot or any other illegal substance used in his house. (Frankly, I think he’s 100% within his reasonable rights to not want alcohol or loud music or any legal thing used in his house- even with his son’s illness, providing him with a roof and sustenance more than fulfils any parental or emotional obligations he may have).
I do wonder if Dan’s son may suffer from more than just depression, however. Since his son has no means of support then even if Dan is a billionaire his son should be eligible for state funded mental health services and should avail himself of them. The nearest agency should be easy to google, though they often have a waiting list for intake and convincing his son to go may not be easy (particularly if Son Blather is convinced he’s too intelligent to benefit from counselling, which may be the case). Private counsellors are generally better of course, but also costly, especially if the son is not covered by any form of insurance (and even if he is, many insurance companies have pitifully ridiculous mental health benefits).
Different medications work very differently for individuals. I tried Paxil and Prozac (along with a bunch of worthless “herbal” remedies) and they helped somewhat but the side effects were terrible (wildly vivid and disturbing dreams, a complete loss of interest in sex [not that I was using my libido for anything anyway], etc.). For the past 10 years I’ve been on Zoloft and for me it did the trick. I still have lows but they’re not as deep, though I do in fact know sometimes that “if I weren’t on Zoloft, I would be in a full fledged depressive episode right now”. There are millions of Americans who take antidepressants and consequently have productive lives that they would totally lack without them, and I hope Son Blather knows this- that he’s not alone and that there is help and it’s not through pot (which really does work as an antidepressant to an extent, but causes at least as many problems as it helps).
Have you told him flat out that he may not smoke pot in your house (or while he lives in your house)? If you’ve both just been dancing around it and leaving at, “I’d rather you didn’t smoke pot,” then you’re both just setting yourselves up for disappointment. As you’ve noted, he doesn’t seem to have any other interests anyway, and as long as he feels he has nothing to lose, he has no reason to quit.
If you HAVE told him that he may not smoke pot, then you have the options that others have given. He can quit (at least for the duration) or he can leave.
I understand that he’s depressed, but as others have pointed out, his pot smoking surely isn’t helping him recover from that. Perhaps if he can get his depression under control (whether that’s done with therapy, changing his life in some way, medication, etc.) he’ll be able to enjoy the occasional toke same as lots of other people.
Can he be reasoned with? Could you say to him, “Look, knock of the pot for X weeks, give the meds a chance to work on their own, if they don’t help the depression, I’ll help you get alternative treatment until something DOES work”?
I don’t see anything preventing you from instituting a “Not in my house” rule. My parents did it, and so I had to go out of the house if I wanted to smoke/drink/take drugs/whatever else they could think of. I also had to follow other rules, such as a curfew and chores. If your son can’t even show you the respect to abide by your rules in your house, then I’d say it’s time for him to leave, because clearly he’s not in an environment where he’ll improve much.
Sounds like a take-off on Cheech and Chong:
Just for the record - I am one of these 9-5ers who can ‘function’. If pot didn’t cause delusions (in the colloquial sense, as Tomcat put it…) I wouldn’t bother with it. I was just saying that given the wrong circumstances, you could find yourself on a very mundane and daily ‘bad trip’.
The weed smoking needs to stop. The medicines to stop mood swings won’t work correctly, when he smokes pot. The depression drugs change brain chemisry to get their effect, and pot or alcohol will screw up the balance needed to prevent depression. I’ve seen a person that would drink some alcohol one night and be totaly unstable for a week after that. The parents need to stop all illegal drug use in their house for their own security also. In Wisconsin the cops could seize the house and sell it in that situation, which I find rediculous. I won’t get into a discusion on that law here, but it’s wrong in so many ways. DanBlather, I hope you can get through this problem, as it’s definately affecting you badly.
Yes, there are. AA will work, even though it’s booze oriented. Probably NA would be better.
And I would add this to the suggestion. Offer him the quit and you get more time option, but throw in the caveat that he has 30 days to get his system cleaned out. After that, you will require random drug testing and if he refuses the test or tries to fudge it in any way, he’s out. Then go down to the drugstore and stock up on home testing kits. Test him on day 31, then again on day 32. Then start testing him every 5-7 days. After a half-dozen or so negatives, start increasing the interval.
Point out to him that being around folks that are smoking pot will probably get enough into his system to cause a positive test, so he will need to change his associates unless he wants to run the risk of being booted because his friends are stupid, too.
My understanding is that there’s no measurable amount of THC from being around people who smoke pot. It’s probably made up by people who didn’t want to admit they’re still smoking pot.
Also, if he’s been smoking pot all day every day, it can take a lot longer than 30 days to get clean. If you’re going to police this guy, you’ll need to find out from a reputable source how long to expect it to take.
I know you don’t want to elaborate on the law too much in WI, but seriously, even for like an 1/8, they can seize your home? A pound or more sounds more likely, but small amounts?
The drug force can seize the parents SUV because junior was using drugs in it. They can seize an apartment complex, if they don’t do something to discourage drugs in a complex, and the cops keep showing up for raids. The last time an apartment complex was seized I think was in Madison. It’s been a couple years. People have to prove they weren’t in the worng to get back seized property, which is expensive and almost impossible. It was passed to make drug inforcement self funding, and it’s way to aggressive a law.
I won’t be able to post again, because tonight my internect service will end.
I don’t know if having a joint on your person is enough to seize the home, but they would if the joint was purchased in the home.
To anyone saying his apparent depression may be keeping him from going out into the world and getting a job (if he does not have one) r going to school, it does not seem to keep him from getting weed and or getting the money to purchase it, so that is a totally bogus excuse.
Apparantly even talking about pot is enough to get the cops to seize your internet service.
:eek:
-foxy