As someone who is a long-reformed “creep” (which I don’t often admit, but feel honesty is helpful at this point–FWIW, it was more than 20 years ago, and I was a hormonal teenager. Not that that’s an excuse…) I think it’s necessary to say that he’s counting on you not saying anything.
He’s thinks he’s being subtle, and that you can’t tell when you’re being touched. Of course, he’s wrong. But he’s banking on you being insecure and he’s thinking that you won’t say anything because you’re “not sure” or even embarassed.
Well, I wasn’t there, and I’m sure. What he was doing was wildly inappropriate, and if he doesn’t get called out on it, he’ll keep doing it to you (and, presumably, others).
Call him out. Loudly, if need be. For a lot of things, I’d say “speak to the group facilitator alone; don’t make a public spectacle of it.” But not this. Out and in front of the group, and I’ll bet you’ll be echoed by other women he’s done this to.
You’re not wrong at all, OneCentStamp. Few women arrive at AA with their sense of self-worth intact, and most are incredibly vulnerable to inappropriate advances. Which not only can creep her out, but can send her straight back out to the bottle.
I was taught to stick only with the women for my first year, and that’s advice that is still very useful. Most of the women in the group are also aware of who the creepy guys are and will help a newcomer learn to value herself enough to stand up for herself. It can be really hard at first, since few people arrive at AA feeling good about themselves.
It’s exactly the right venue to stand up, next time the creep attends and say, “That man was inappropriately touching me, at the last meeting. This is supposed to be a community of people helping each other. Please don’t let him commit sexual battery here. Help me, and to be fair, help him too.”
Then look the creep straight in the eye, and say, “Touch me again, and I am pressing charges. I have to come here. I will protect myself from your abusive acts.”
If the group doesn’t respond entirely supportively, dump them, and find a better meeting.
Tris
Wow, I’m definitely feeling validated here. Thanks all. Just for the record, there’s no problem here with me feeling ashamed or anything–I know I didn’t initiate or encourage the contact so I’m in the clear.
I did consider mentioning it to someone but, as I said, he’d taken off and the only description I could have given was “white guy, 40-50, polo and blazer, with no respect for boundries”. I don’t even know if I’d recognize him again since I was doing my best to just ignore him at the time.
This is exactly the reason I didn’t speak up at the time. I’ve only gone to this group a few times and didn’t want to look like a raving attention whore.
And at the risk of TMI, but in the interests of honesty, I must admit that my last occupation was walking the streets, so there’s no horrified sense of violated modesty here. I **am ** easy. If it’d been a business transaction it would have been the easiest trick I ever had. But dammit, it wasn’t. I’m clean, I’m not working anymore, and on top of that I’m ridiculously pregnant… Go figure.
But you all have convinced me, next time I hit this meeting I’m certainly going to keep an eye out for him and let the group leader know what happened if I recognize him. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that this is probably SOP with him and if I can do something about it, I should.
Welcome to the Dope, Delphine. Everybody:
Hi, Delphine.
Cool that you have lived an alternative lifestyle and are open enough to share, and cool that you are working on correcting some destructive habits. Stick around- you seem very articulate and it sounds like you have some stories and insight to share.
And yeah, he was molesting you. I vote for “SIR, please stop touching me!”
And you are wounded.
Get your horrified sense of violation back! (OK, the modesty is a flown bird, oh well.)
You are a person with the exact same rights, and due the exact same amount of respect and courtesy as the prom queen, and the bag lady. Do not settle for some reduced level of self worth based on what you have been!
Pulling out the big guns, you have a child who needs a mom that understands that she is the best person in the whole world! So, practice acting like her, starting now.
I get a little excited about this, sorry.
Tris
“Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone deeply gives you courage.” ~ Lao-Tzu ~
I would have totally made a scene. What a perv. I feel :mad: for you!
I didn’t say you were wrong about him being a creep; I said you were wrong about him having any notion that his advance was welcome. He knew that she could tell what he was doing, and he knew she wasn’t going to say anything. He didn’t care if she was a slut or not, just that she was uncomfortable enough to not cause a fuss.
Even if you don’t recognize him, let the group leader know what happened. S/he needs to know to watch out for this behavior.
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Ma’am, as you hang around here on the SDMB, you’ll find that our threshold of TMI is incredibly high. Don’t worry.
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You may have been easy once, but that doesn’t mean you have to be now; in fact, that you were freaked out and offended by this guy seems to imply that you are not easy anymore.
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Good on you for working to make your life better. Your child(ren) will thank you one day. And maybe not the exact same thing, but there are a few Dopers (pun intended) who have been through their own recoveries from whatever. Stick around and you may find us a welcoming and supportive bunch.
I realize not all women want to or can get physical with a creep, but perhaps a little pepper spray is in order?
Or, you could stand up, tell him not to touch you again, and kick him in the nuts. After all, if he’s touching you, it must be okay to touch him, right?
Perhaps, if you’re up to it, you could arrange with one or more of the other women in the group (or a respectable guy, for that matter) to have them watch for a signal from you, at which point they all stand and turn and start harassing him about leaving women alone. Public humiliation is like kryptonite to these sorts of jerks; they’re afraid of the spotlight.
I harbor an intense dislike for people who don’t respect personal space. Grr.
Definitely a creep.
I’d bring it up with the facilitator first, but if anyone tries it again, be vocal. Fear and silence are the allies of these creeps–of anyone who wants to take advantage of you, in fact.
You chose to walk the streets once, then you chose not to. You are the one who says who may or may not touch you, and when. Do not give that power to anyone else.
Absolutely! In my meetings, we girls know who the creeps are who target newcomers. C’mere, honey, we’ll get rid of him for you…
You being a former prostitute does not mean that you are worth any less, or that you somehow have fewer rights than any other female. Quit thinking that shit- unwanted advances are unwanted advances.
Hell, in a mixed meeting, I would say something out loud, and (in mine, at least) would probably see an immediate resolution of the problem by another guy or three…
Unwelcome and inappropriate behavior is unwelcome and inappropriate behavior regardless of what your occupation is or was. Never low rate yourself like that. You are working to make positive changes in your life, don’t let some jerk make you uncomfortable.
I am sort of a non-confrontational person myself and I probably would have done the same thing you did - the first time. So, if he tries it again and you are not comfortable making a fuss, give him a glare and get up and move – he wouldn’t dare follow you (and if he does – well then it’s fussing time!)
I do agree with the others that you should let the facilitator know. At the very least he (or she) could keep an eye out for a guy pulling that type of thing on you or another woman.
Welcome to the Dope
Welcome
Always, always listen to your spidey sense!
I was once a young girl alone in a big house rationalizing noises I heard as raccoons in the garbage for fear the police would come and I’d be all embarassed, and feel such a girl! Turned out some perv was trying to break into my house - and the police came over and caught him, straight away (Law enforcers - you rock!). I called them because I just couldn’t shake the feeling it was something more. Your story reminds me of this because you clearly couldn’t shake the feeling.
Always, always listen to your spidey sense! The universe gave you this defense mechanism to save your life, never let your intellect or sense of propriety convince you to rationalize away it’s signal!
Another vote for creepy. Guys like this know very well that if they do what they’re doing so subtly that you’re not even sure they’re doing it (if you see what I mean) they’re more likely to get away with it.
Don’t be alone with him ever and if he comes near you again at a meeting, don’t be afraid to just get up and move to another seat. You don’t have to put up with it.
I’ve seen a group of guys grab another one who used “hey, she can’t get any more preggers!” in a discussion about another friend’s unwanted attention towards a girl, drag him to the nearest irrigation ditch and hold him down until he begged. Then they did the same with the one who’d had the initial bad behavior. It was during a big family shinding… when the matriarch asked what the heck’s going on and got the explanation, she said “oh, GOOD!” and went back to the table shooing people back to theirs. Hopefully both idiots learned their lessons, but apparently it’s an argument some people feel is true (I refuse to use “think” in this context).
Welcome to the boards, best wishes
To make things even worse, I’m pretty sure there are strict prohibitions against having any kind of relationship with anyone else in the program. Some even recommend just shutting down your social life temporarily so you can concetrate on whatever sobriety you’re trying to maintain. This guy is just breaking all kinds of rules.
Actually, to a creep like this, a passive action like glaring (no matter how evil) will simply reinforce that his victim is too shy to speak up. This won’t stop him, and probably will encourage him.
At least, that’s they way my mind works. Each creep may be different, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Just try this at the next meeting you and the creep are at…
During the intro section (disclaimer: based entirely on fictional representations of AA meetings)
*Hi, I’m Delphine, I’m a violent sociopath and I haven’t killed anyone who touched me for… hang on, is this Tuesday or Wednesday?
Ahh, sorry, wrong meeting. I’m Delphine and …*
You will get a seat to yourself whenever you turn up 
Seriously - you need to mention this to the organiser. All the best.
Si