As the inital premise appears to be less a debate and more of an anti-semetic tirade…
O.K. Sweet Willy let’s say I have the ability to go “poof” and make you a Jew…
Is it O.K to make you a Jew during the Spanish Inquisition?
How about Germany circa 1939?
Or the US in 1949?
My point being-during any of the aforementioned points in time, it wouldn’t matter if you were a Christian convert or an atheist, your parentage would define your race and identity for the majority of the population and you would be treated accordingly.
You can’t end of story. Why? Because the rules of the club say so. End of story. Don’t like it? Don’t join, and then no one will force you to remain a Jew against your will. End of story.
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I was using sarcasm. :rolleyes:
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Cite, please?
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So, is it your argument that the Nazis were justified in doing “horrible things” because they felt excluded???
Why should someone stop being a pro-Jewish racist? Can you give an example of one of the “horrible things” done by pro-Jewish racists? (Besides automatic Israeli citizenship, I mean…)
I’m one of those ‘Jews’ that don’t accept the faith. However, because I don’t accept the faith, I have no desire to live in Israel, attend Jewish functions, go to Temple, or do anything with a group of people who’s common denominator is that they all believe in the Jewish faith. When people ask me what my religion is I tell them that I don’t ascribe to any organized religion. When describing my ancestry, I say ‘Russian Jewish’, since it gives them something to picture, i.e., the Fiddler on the Roof gang. I’m only Jewish by cultural ancestry, not religion. So if you’re a religious Jew, then you either accept the faith of your parents, or you convert to accept the faith. What you’re trying to do, Sweet Willy, is convert to having the ancestry, which you can’t do. Nobody can - there is no conversion process for ancestral ties. "If my mom is Jewish I don’t have the friggin choice whether I like the rules or not."
Actually that’s not true. If you give up the faith, then you don’t have to follow the religious idea that Judaism is passed down from your mom.
And how would you characterize such a system Monty?
Yes. And I think Zev Steinhardt must have his head in the Israeli sand.
Zev Steinhardt, I learned the meaning of “putz” here on this board. Because the board does not allow personal insult but does allow the use of “putz”, I am confused as to your objection of its use.
oops, sorry. I misread Sweet Willy’s last post. I thought it said that the racists do horrible things. My bad. If I had read it correctly, I’d have posted something similar to what Zev wrote.
You know, I laughed when Atreyu brought up that Turing test argument, but now I’m not so sure it was a joke. This comment is exactly the thing a low grade AI program would say.
Not that I contributed much to this debate, but I give up. This is a completely hopeless case.
First of all, I invite you to look to the left of any of my posts. I may have my head in the Brooklyn sand, but hardly in the Israeli sand.
Secondly, so instead of just saying “he’s wrong,” how about pointing out where I’m wrong? IOW, I put the question back to you. In what way, in your opinion, does Jewish tradition affect gentiles.
I consider it an insult. You’ll note that I have not used it as such (nor issued any other insult) against you. All I ask is that you not use with regard to me. If you cannot give me this simple courtesy, then fine, simply say so and wel’ll move on.
Well, that depends on what the definition of “have to” is.
If “don’t have to” means that the police will not enforce it, then I agree that “you don’t have to”. On the other hand…
Being that this is, after all, Great Debates, I trust that no one will object to my bringing God into the discussion.
If God really does exist, and Judaism accurately represents His feelings (I’m not forcing anyone to accept either of those ideas, but if they happen to both be true) then “have to” is defined by what God expects from us, whether we accept it or not.
Keeve, this is the exact mentality that needs to be addressed. Racism breeds hate and intolerance. Please tell me why you shouldn’t stop being racist. I can give you a million reason why you should stop.
In many cases of extreme bigotry, a common theme is that the predjudiced individual feels cast out of society and is economically disadvantaged. He sees members of a minority group who share a common bond which is not immediately available to him, and perceives that some members of that group are economically better off than him. His hostility is irrationally directed at that group. The stubborn refusal to accept facts and alter one’s opinions is understandable, when the unacceptable alternative is to face up to one’s own inadequacies.
I believe that this explains a number of recent SDMB postings.
What’s the matter Zev Steinhardt? Is the fact that Jewish insults are somehow included, while others are not, getting to you? As for how these things affect gentiles, I will tell you that I cringe every time I come to this reply promt due to some icons that are exclusive to Jews. Where are the “Happy Athiest” smilies? Where is the “dick head” smiley? Wonder who and what infuences this? The exclusion of other religious icons coupled with the inclusion of Jewish icons is offensive isn’t it? Are you getting the picture?
No. You’ll note that I asked you not to issue any insults, not just Jewish ones. I have extended this courtesy to you and ask that you extend it to me as well. Again, if you are unable to do so, simply say so and we’ll move on.
A smilie makes you cringe??? Come now, surely you’ll have to do better than that.
And are you asserting that Jewish tradition is responsible for which icons get included in the “smilie list” is somehow due to Jewish tradition? If there was enough of a demand for a “Happy Atheist smilie” (how would it be depicted anyway?) then I’m sure the board administrators would institute one.
Well this is good in theory, but your characterization is wrong. I am neither cast out of society or economically disadvantaged. I am quite well off by most standards. I don’t have envy or hate or anything negative towards Jewish people. They don’t affect my economic status at all. I am trying to give the jewish a little insight as to why every group of people you have ever interacted with winds up wanting to evict or kill you. Racism is bad. we have proved it over and over again. Stop it.
I don’t need a whole million. Perhaps you can start with just a few?
I don’t hate non-Jews. I don’t mind if they are my co-workers or next-door neighbors.
I once had a boss who was a non-religious Jew, and asked if I know any people who he might be able to hire. I told him, “I do know one guy, but he is Orthodox like the 5 programmers you already have. I can’t to that to you. The office is empty on the Jewish holidays and you need to find someone who can come in and handle the work.”
It is true that most of my friends are Jewish. That’s because the things which are important and interesting to them are also important and interesting to me.
I enjoy science-fiction too, (but not as much as I enjoy my Judaism) and I have had some non-Jewish friends over the years, many of whome were similarly into science fiction.
Yes, there are indeed some Jews who are hateful and intolerant of non-Jews. But to brand them all like that is like saying that all Muslims are terrorists.
Well, you could make them if you wanted. The “putz” smiley is in honor of Wally47, a doper who passed away. Wally used to call people putzes a lot. I’m not sure where the orthodox smiley comes from, but if you’d like to design some smileys, you should design them and submit them to ATMB for consideration.
I’m still wondering how Jewish Law effects non Jews, or the horrible things Jews do.
