I think Sweet Willy’s posts probably read better in the original German. In any event, he needs to stop channelling the long-dead 30’s radio rabblerouser, Father Coughlin and lay off the Jews. It’s old, it’s tired, and I, for one, am sick of it.
In addition, it would be a nice idea if Sweet Willy would read something about Jews and Judaism apart from The Turner Diaries and The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.
**
I thought you said that Jewish tradition affects gentiles. Now you state that it does not affect you. Please clarify.
Now we get to the root of the matter. Too bad it took about 100 posts and two pages to do it.
Firstly being racist does not mean that everyone wants to kill you or evict you. I never heard of abolishinist northerners saying “Let’s kill all the racist Virginians” in the days leading up to the civil war. I never heard of anyone saying “Let’s kill the baseball owners” because they denied blacks the right to participate in orgainized baseball.
Secondly, I’m still waiting for you to tell me how Jews are racist. Simply pointing to the smilie list doesn’t count. In what way have they been racists for the last three thousand years? In what way have they “invited” the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the massacres of 1648-49 and the holocaust upon themselves by their racism. Please enlighten me.
Zev Steinhardt
Zev Steinhardt
I’ve wondered about this also. And my lack of peyos (sidecurls) is not the only reason (though I do wear a yarmulke). In all seriousness, perhaps there should be a smilie wearing a crucifix for our Christian friends, and one with a forehead dot for Hindus. Or get rid of them all.
Does anyone know the history of the “happy orthodox jewish man” smilie?
**
Why are all the smilies light-skinned? Where is the dread-lock smilie? Or the afro smilie? Or the Fight-the-Power smilie?
I tell you! First it was the beauty pageants that were racists, and now it’s the innocent little smilies! Where’s Smashy when you need him?
Keeve, Zev, sdimbert, Captain, etc. I’m truly ashamed of you guys. Here is a person asking an honest question, how he can become a Jew without accepting the faith, and no one is willing to truly welcome this potential brother (I’m assuming that “Willy” is not short for Wilhemina.) All you do is accuse him of anti-Semitism…come, let’s be like Hillel, not like Shammai.
The answer is, we must buy him as a slave and then free him. I guess we’ll have to move to the Sudan, as in America, the concept of Dina D’Malchusa Dina prevents us from owning slaves. Once we have relocated, we can arrange the sale. I don’t know just what I would do with a slave, but I imagine we can think of something fun.
Of course, the fun part will be in freeing him. Which would you guys prefer we knock out, his eye or his tooth?
Finally, welcome to the club, Willy. Oh, and best of luck finding a flight from Khartoum to Tel Aviv.
Right, but since the efficacy of any particular religion depends on personal faith, then the tenets of the religion don’t really apply to anyone that doesn’t believe in it.
Truly great post! Too bad SW won’t understand a word of it.
Zev Steinhardt
I’ll pick up that tangent…
One of the silliest notions we have here in America is a reverence for both unity and diversity. Think about that for a minute.
On the one hand, we say, “Let’s give this unique group of people something to be proud of.” We then say, “But, if this one group is singled out in some way, then all groups must be singled out in the same way.” I’m reminded of that little town up north, where “all the children are above average.” :rolleyes:
Ths simple fact that there is a “Jewish” smiley does not create a need for other “minority” smilies.
**Keeve **, you can find the beginning of the answer to your specific question in this thread.
BTW,Chaim, Yasher Koach.
May I offer my own little Guide for the Perplexed(paceMaimonides)?
Jews have been hated for their religion.
The Romans hated the Jews because they worshipped an invisible god Whose name could not be said and whose image could not be made. The Jews did not adopt Roamn dress, Roman customs, or the Roamn civic religion which included oaths of loyalty to the emperor. This made the Jews look suspect and perverse to the pagans. In addition, the mutiple rebellions against the Roman occupation, including the 135 AD rebellion which caused the Romans to expel Jews from Judea, increased Roman antipathy. After Christianity became the dominant faith in Europe, the Christians hated the Jews because they denied the divinity of Jesus.
Jews have been hated for their ethnicity.
In the diaspora following the Bar-Kochba rebellion, Jews lived in their own communities in Europe. They spoke Hebrew, and later Ladino and Yiddish, they ate different foods and celebrated diferent holidays from their Christian neighbors. Being different from the larger society is often enough to inspire hatred.
**Jews have been hated for their success]/b]
Because the Catholic Church forbade Jews from many occupations, they found another avenue in banking. Christian kings borrowed money from Jewish bankers to finance crusades and wars, then led pogroms to kill their benefactors to avoid paying back loans. Because Judaism exalts study above other activities, it is no wonder that many leading uropean intellectuals and businessmen were Jews. Because the Jews often semed more successful than their less-studious Christian neighbors, tit was assumed tht the Jews must be conspiring against their Gentile communities.
Jews racist? Then why have Jews been at the forefront of the civil rights movement? Why did Jews help in the Underground Railroad? Why has Israel welcomed black Ethiopian Jews in their midst? Doesn’t sound racist to me!
The Jews have produced Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, and the Marx Brothers; bagels, lox, and the knish, and Isaac Asimov, Avram Davidson, and Harlan Ellison. They have given English new vocabulary like putz, schlemiel, and zaftig. Jews have fought and died for America. They have created television, alternating current, and computers. Jews created Superman and Las Vegas, too.
Without Jews, our literature and the performing arts would be duller, our language would be poorer, and the US would not be the technological giant it is today.
All true, and well said, but you left out one other reason people can be bigoted:
Sometimes, they’re just stupid.
Fenris
PS: gobear: I liked the Father Coughlin comparison. Very, VERY on-target!
OK. I hereby retract my statement that I did not believe that Sweet Willy is anti-semitic which I made in the Are jewish religion and ideology a threat to us all thread.
Sweet Willy has now joined the long list of people going back as far (at least) as Mohammed and Martin Luther and including such luminaries of world thought as Hitler, Himmler, and John John in proclaiming that the reason that Jews have been persecuted for over 2,000 years is that they bring it on themselves. It is their own fault. And it is perfectly respectable to persecute a person who does not practice Judaism as long as they were born to a Jewish mother because Jews want to be persecuted.
No more of this “We’d like to be able to practice our religion in peace, so why do you persecute even those who have stopped practicing?” questions from Jews. S W has established that it is their own fault.
I was wondering why he continually dodged the questions regarding persecution of non-observant Jews in the other thread. Now we know.
(Interestingly, Sweet Willy has done this before. In an earlier discussion on the effects of slavery, Celestina responded to a specific point regarding why it was difficult for black people to trace their ancestry and culture. Her post addressed the specific practice of “breaking” that occurred on the West of the Atlantic. S W immediately hijacked the thread to complain that she had not addressed the slave-taking in Africa (where no “breaking” took place and which had no relevance to the destruction of culture or family ties) in order to claim that it was “black people’s” fault for selling slaves.
In Sweet Willy’s world, it appears that those who are harmed are always responsible for that harm. They just bring it on themselves.)
Wow! It’s just like the end of Sommersby, where the court is trying to get the KKK guy to admit his racism, and he doesn’t for ages, and then at the last minute he slips up and reveals all. Cool.
I missed this one earlier
Sweet Willy has overstated the situation. He states that these smilies are “exclusive” to Jews. Of course, we all know that anyone can use these smilies. In fact, Sweet Willy himself states that the “wally” smilie is a “Jewish icon” earlier in the post (see the quote below) and used it himself against me.
**
Zev Steinhardt
One that works for the members of the group to which it pertains. Not that my opinion on the matter counts–I’m not a member of said group.
Nor are you.
Here’s another one for you: I’m a DeMolay and have been since I was 13 years old. I’ll assume you’re older than 21. To become a DeMolay, you must enter the group between the ages of 13 and 21. Once in, however, you’re in forever. BUT you can’t join prior to 13 nor can you join after 21.
Guess that means I’m just as evil as those bad ol’ Israelis.
BTW, congratulations. You’re the newest member of the Monty Coventry List.
I never realized what it was about the emoticons that made me so nervous, but now I know. We are being watched and manipulated. Everytime I hit the “reply” button ;j and his twelve henchman spring forward and lock onto me with with their unblinking stare. They’re even watching me RIGHT NOW!
Oh sure, he looks cute with that broad grin and that curly hair but what sinister plots is that tiny disembodied head planning? What evil schemes are behind that vacuous grin? A message board is “media” right? …and who controls the media?
That smilie is up to something I tell you.
::brief hijack::
Cool! I’m a Rainbow Girl, have been since I was 12 
I used to be Grand Treasurer in Connecticut. It’s always cool to run across other Masonic family members
::/hijack::
I am not branding Jews as hateful and intolerant. I am branding them as racist. Racism is not hate or intolerance.
That is great. Now tell me what it has to do with racism.
What horrible things? Racism? If it sounds all that horrible to you then stop it. Other than racism I can’t think of anything I have said that could be considered horrible.
Well certainly not everyone. I am glad you do remember that there was a war and all. Remember any other wars with the race issue? I don’t like war. I don’t like racism. I really don’t like race war. Get over your racist self and learn to love your neighbor as much as you love Jews.
And for all of this you are entitled to be racist? Shall I make a list of everything white folks ever did for the good of man kind and present it to everyone as a reason to like them better?
Way to go Fenris. I am learning alot here rather than writing people off as stupid. (remembering something about the fools and the wise)
Tom You are a liar. You don’t even recall what the thread was about. It was not about the effects of slavery as you claim. It was about hypenated nationalities. And no breaking? Yeah Tom , no breaking, just sort out the women, children and worthless men and kill them. You want to discuss that thread then start it up pal.
I know all about your group. I oppose the ideas behind it too. You know that. What does that have to do with this?
Monty, Monty, Monty, Your own folks have betrayed your claim about Demolay and the Masons. Where was this confession a few weeks ago? Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. :wally
Once again, Sweet Willy I put the question to you. How do you know that I am racist? How do you know that I don’t love non-Jews as much as I love Jews? How do you know this without having even met me?
Zev Steinhardt
A few comments:
-Some of us whiteboy north carolinians had no problems getting accepted into UNC, even though we weren’t (cough cough) “privileged” by being a minority. I guess some of us are more qualified than others.
-You guys sure entertain the trolls round these parts!
-And here I was, thinking this was gonna be a legitimate discussion. See, when I was about fifteen, I got a Jewish Envy complex going. Too many plays and movies depicting Brooklyn Jewish life showed exactly the kind of vibrant, intellectually curious, politically involved families that I wished I had. My sense of humor is much more Woody Allen than Garrison Keillor.
Recently, though, David Sedaris convinced me that whiteboy North Carolinians can be every bit as caustic, perverse, witty, and self-mocking as any Brooklyn Jew. So maybe there’s hope for me yet.
I figure it makes about as much sense as being an Anglophile. More sense, actually: bagels and lox, or fried toast and kippers? no contest.
Daniel
Yeah, I know. It’s kind of like shooting fish in a barrel, but, hey, sometimes it’s the only entertainment around.
Welcome to the boards DanielWithrow!
Zev Steinhardt