I want to give away our child

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

[OP] I agree with your decision not to hit your kid. This is negative reinforcement and the end result is that he will inhibit specific behaviors only because he fears the punishment (an ass beating, a cold shower). You’re best saving the negative reinforcement for extreme situations. Wiping shit on the walls could be one of them. However it is a slippery slope. Once you and your wife feel contempt for your child love really is lost and it can become easy to take the negative emotions he is invoking in you out on him and then regular beatings start. I think it’s important that you look at the situation scientifically so that you do not feel contempt.

That said, what kind of advice could possibly help you? That’s a really difficult problem. Keep in mind that your son is still at a very sensitive age of neural development and the experiences he has in his life now shape who he will become. It’s important not to lose sight of the goal here: a normal, healthy brain.

It sounds to me like your son’s reward centers are not properly wired. He doesn’t have a clear understanding of the relationship between punishment and reward. “Understanding” means to me, literally, that the neurons in his brain simply haven’t had the life experiences - combined with whatever random genetic propensities he was born with, which is not his fault - that lead to healthy neural development. This is qualitatively different from a chemical imbalance, although it certainly involves chemicals. He needs to have positive learning experiences involving both reward and punishment so that his basal ganglia can start to approximate that of what society considers normal. Learning, learning, learning.

One of the best ways to teach is through repetition. It will be difficult and very effortful for you and your wife to get in enough repeated trials of positive experiences involving punishment and reward. Thus, I have the following highly nonstandard suggestion: Allow your son to become addicted to video games. Forget the nonsense you’ve heard about it leading to violence. It certainly doesn’t lead to shit on the walls. There are boundless positive experiences waiting for him in virtual worlds and his young brain will eat it up. If you have nothing else, it’s worth a shot IMO.

42

EJsGirl said it best. The feelings are your feelings–it’s the acting on those feelings that is one huge factor in this clusterfuck. Get help.
I don’t think (and have not said) that these people are rotten, awful people or parents. They’re not. But I will not condone harming a child. Harm has already come to this child. He needs consistent and competent professional help, as do both parents. And I do count them as parents, regardless of their marital status. Would it be nice if they were married? Sure. But given the situation, that’s a minor issue. The boy has a male role model in the OP–one who obviously cares about him. I think his mom also loves him very much but cannot help herself, much less her child. :frowning:

43

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44

No offense, but those morals and values are cultural and personal, and not universal necessities for a healthy family. There are all sorts of different families and marital status is pretty far down the list when compared to things like caring, firm, consistent parenting. I’m not going to crawl all over you for your opinion, I stand by my earlier assertion that you were out of line mentioning it to the OP; who seems to be a pretty mature, stand-up guy to stick it out with a troubled child that he bears no legal responsibility for.

45

The sad thing is, it may be the best these folks can do on their own - they both seem very young and experience counts in parenting, just like in most things. HOWEVER - they are also asking for help, which I view as very much a positive. They admit they have a problem they can’t handle, and that is the first and most necessary step to getting help to solve it. The situation is not good, no, but neither is it hopeless. If the situation sounds desperate it is, but I’d rather point them in a direction to get help than spend a lot of time condemning their choices and actions, many of which they already know are not working.

46

He may be your child in love, but until the laws change, or you get married and adopt him, he is not legally your child. You need to look at some things from another standpoint. She could take him away and you would have very little, if anything, to say about it. Even now, as you’re saying you want to give him away, how would you feel if she left and you never saw either of them again? Is the bio-dad in the child’s life at all?

You all three need counseling, desperately.

47

I don’t see anyone here disputing that. I do think that they see their situation as hopeless, which adds to their frustration and feelings of powerlessness.
I hope the OP comes back to read the posts here. I hope they get help and get that boy help (more help or better help or both).

48

I have little to offer other than commiserations and another voice for get family treatment. You don’t say what behaviour prompted your SO’s abusive outburst but remember you can only control your actions. You may feel like exacting some physical punishment on a child but in the end you aren’t compelled to actually do it.

My suspicion is that investigation will either prove astro right - some fundamental imbalance of brain chemistry/structure, or a history of abuse in the 5 years prior to your arrival will be revealed. Either his mother or his biological father or both could be responsible. The faeces smearing leads me to favour the latter explanation.

49

This happens, even if you don’t see the situation as hopeless (ETA- we knew our situation might only be temporary, and it still didn’t help). Help is needed desperately, and it sounds like the OP is willing.

50

Why are so many people here trying to diagnose both this child and his parents?

John_Stamos’_Left_Ear, the one piece of advice I don’t see here, or option that you don’t say you’ve tried, is to take your son to see a neurologist in addition to the counseling and other professional help you’re receiving. And I’ll leave you with two anecdotes. . .

When I was about your son’s age, my father slapped me across the top of my legs with his belt, leaving welts and bruises. I wasn’t the one doing the thing he thought he was lashing out at me for, but that’s not important to the story. What I think is relevant is, that one act didn’t make him a child abuser. He felt horrible about it, and sat with me for hours on his lap, holding ice on my legs, much like your wife feels horrible about how she lashed out at your son. He never hit me again, and we have always had a great relationship. Tell you wife to make sure your son knows how deeply sorry she is, but most of all, to forgive herself and don’t let it happen again.

Secondly, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I helped raise a little boy who was a hellion from birth. He had a lot of behavioral problems, and though different from what you’re describing, equally frustrating and frightening. When he was 7, he was finally properly diagnosed by a neurologist. The right medication has helped him lead a normal life, and a mother who once admitted to hating him, loves him from the bottom of her heart.

Don’t give up hope and don’t give up on him. I wish you and your family all the best.

51

A few thoughts.

It’s possible that the summer away from Mom felt like abandonment to him. My almost 6 year old for the most part is uncomfortable with more than one night away from home. Perhaps he “gets” that he is too hard to parent, and that you are glad to not have him around for a while. IMO it is NOT good for him to be aware of this.

It’s not all that uncommon for kids of that age to not turn homework in. It can be for a variety of reasons. Do you have any idea why it could be an issue for him?

From your post I get the feeling that your head is in the place of “what this is like for me/us”, rather than “trying to understand the kid”. Understandable, but might not help find solutions. Take last week. In your eyes, things came to a head: he embarrassed himself, he REALLY embarrassed you, and provoked his mom into beating him. In his, he was good for 3 days (3 whole days!), then did doing something at school that he’s also done at home a few times. And got beaten for it this time.

Are there any common factors in the times he has smeared feces?

I think this could be very much of a cry for help/attention from him. I wouldn’t be completely surprised to find out that he has suffered abuse from someone.

As much as I’d like to feel loads of sympathy for you, with what you are going through, I can’t help but feel mostly like your son must be in a hell of his own if he is acting out this much.

If your family in therapy, and not getting any answers, not seeing improvement, then I think you need a different therapist.

Some other thoughts: what about trying some completely different approaches too, finding a positive activity for getting out some energy/anger/aggression, and building a positive self image. Something like karate?

Also something else to consider. If he didn’t act up over the summer, that might help point to what the triggers/problems/whatever are. Could he have some sort of learning disorder that is causing school to be stressful? Could there be something in your and his Mom’s approach that he reacts badly to, that wasn’t there over the summer?

52

IANAD, but this sounds way beyond ordinary ADHD-unless it’s combined with some other disorder-I doubt that’s what it is. HOWEVER, again, IANAD, and I would say, the entire family needs counseling, and the kid needs some MAJOR psychiatric care and testing, even.

Goody for you. With this kid’s issues, it does sound like being beaten with a belt COULD be damaging. Ever read about Bing Crosby’s family? He used to punish his kids with a belt, and he was supposedly physically and emotionally abusive. Two of his sons ended up addicted to drugs and alcohol, and blew their brains out.
:rolleyes::dubious::mad: yourself. (Although maybe the cold shower helped his bruises, that’s the ONLY thing that I could possible justify).

Doesn’t mean that this woman in particular is an abusive parent-if this is an isolated incident-there are obviously some major problems going on. HOWEVER, that doesn’t make it right, and especially when you have a kid with major psychological problems. Duh. (Or, what Shayna said)

To the OP-good luck to you. I’ll be thinking of you and your family.

53

So I went and did some research, and it turns out that my feelings about cohabitating single mothers do have credibility on a scientific basis. Many, many studies affirm that children that live with a mother’s boyfriend with her are more likely to be delinquent, to have a harder time in school, and generally have more difficult lives.

Here is one article about it. Here is another. Here is another. I’m not against cohabitation with children because I’m some kind of fundamentalist Jesus freak. I’m a liberal Democrat atheist. I’m against it because it hurts children, and women, and the family unit as a whole.

54

Alice, your heart may be in the right place but I don’t think you’re helping here.

Look, the man is not married to the woman but despite that he is sticking around when other married men may well take to the hills to get the hell away from this sort of problem. Give him some credit.

What do you want him to do? Just up and marry this woman? Is that really for the best for everyone? It won’t suddenly make the kid feel more secure, that would take time. Worse yet if the kid thinks they’re getting married because of him and they later split up.

Do you think things would improve if this adult, who has obviously been part of this boy’s life for some time, suddenly moves out? Would that help abandonment issues at this point?

Seriously, the whole lot of them need the sort of help you can’t get from an on-line message board. Having JSLE suddenly change living arrangements may be more disruptive at this point than having him continue to “cohabit” with the boy and his mother. It might be wise to seek some advice and help before radically changing the boy’s home life in any way. They have to deal with the situation as it is right now, not as if it were some hypothetical better thing that it isn’t and never has been.

55

Dude, my kid has what is likely ADHD, although we haven’t quite received the official diagnosis yet (it’s a long story that I’m not going into here), and if he had three solid days of good behavior at school, that would be huge. One or two days in a row is a big deal for us right now. OP, you had a kid who gave you three good days, and then melted down on day 4, and instead of rewarding him for 3 good days, you beat the shit out of him for the one bad day. (Although I realize it was a very bad day. But still.)

I’ll just chime in with everyone else saying to get some professional help, STAT. We’re getting behavioral counseling from our local Children’s Hospital for our son and his issues don’t sound anywhere near as serious as yours does. I’m sorry to put it that way, because I hate more than anything hearing, “Wow, your child has the worst case of we’ve seen,” but seriously. Get some help. You’re in over your heads.

56

Yes, okay, you do have a point. I was really just pointing out that there may be more underlying issues, and not just this or just that. Parents can be ignorant or in denial of the way their lifestyles impact their children. And then I ended up having to defend my opinion, so minor highjackage may have ensued. Sorry. I really wish the best for the op, the mom, and the child…

57

It sounds to me like you’re just understandably tired and need to vent. I don’t think giving your child up is a realistic option for a number of reasons. Your heart seems to be in the right place, and I can imagine how difficult this all is.

The best advice I can give you is to let you know that I’ve had a number of serious family problems and life problems where it seemed like the future was hopeless but things got better. Life has a way of working out like that. Your child isn’t paralyzed or some other permanent condition like that. He’s a troubled child, and a lot of times kids grow out of it. Keep fighting the good fight- as long as you do that then you can go to sleep at night knowing you’ve done your best.

58

Oh, yes - as several pointed out, that level of acting out can also be a sign of abuse which the parents may not be aware of. Which is a whole 'nother level of awful, because parents want to protect their child and to find out that someone else might be doing Terrible Things to a young child… that would be overwhelming to discover. Which, again, is yet another reason to seek professional help. There are some bad things going on here, beyond what the average parent would be able to diagnose and cope with. What, exactly, we have no way to know.

Sometimes, a step-parent (even one that is not legally so but plays that role in the family) can wind up being a better parent than a biological one. It’s rare, but it can and does happen. I certainly hope for everyone’s sake that that is what happens here. Being a good father is more important than being a biological father.

59

I’m going to echo just a couple of the posters.

You have already been told to get counselling, but it seems to me that you were already in that loop. Not all counselors or psychologists are equal, however, and I would urge you to consider whether you need to change shrinks.

I recommend a psychiatrist, (or a team that includes a psychiatrist), rather than simply a psychologist. If your medicines are currently being prescribed by a family physician, you need to step away from that source, (no matter how good a pediatrician the doc might be), and find a genuine M.D. with actual experience in this area. You are way beyond a Physician’s Assistant prescribing something for ADHD.
I urge you to make sure that the counselors know as much history as possible.
I recommend that you ask around and find a counselor/team who has specific experience with Reactive Attachment Disorder. (I am not making a diagnosis, but if the pros do not have succesful experience with this, then they are not qualified to diagnose it or rule it out. My kid lost two valuable years to bring his situation under control because we did not realize that his first psychologist had horribly misdiagnosed him and was doing nothing to actually help him.)
I also support the suggestion to include a neurologist in the people examining the child.

I have been close to where you are. I will tell you that the reward and punishment system will probably never work. (I am not sure that my kids were capable of making the cause/effect correlation between actions and consequences and so rewards were simply random events that happened for no reason and punishments were simply bad things that happened randomly. They talked as though they understood, but it never really made it into their consciousness. At 21 and 19, they are still unclear about cause and effect, although they have finally gotten around to behaving like humans.)
Rather than agonize over what you might have done that you regret, simply make that part of the past and work toward a different approach.

I do suggest that you put aside the nonsense bruted about by some groups that the meds will turn the kids into docile zombies. People pushing that idea are idiots with no concept of how the medicines actually work. You son does not, (to me), sound as though his problem is ADHD, (although that might be a factor). Rather, his behavior sounds like actual personality disorders.

I have no experience with Concerta, but when it does not work, then trying Adderal and Ritalin and even Dexadrine may need to be considered.
One drug I would suggest asking about, (only for an opinon, not suggesting it to the doctor), would be Risperdal. It does have some serious potental side effects, but it does address some of the issues your son is experiencing. (It also may not yet be age appropriate.)

Do not dwell on what you should or should not have already done; simply keep looking for solutions.
Good luck.

60

I’ll back you up – to a point. My mother was married four times and had a slew of boyfriends in between. I was very attached to some of them and when she broke up with one of her long-term boyfriends when I was about 7, I was pretty upset about it. I didn’t believe I was upset about it at all, because that’s just the way things were with Mom. My teachers kept bringing it up and I kept saying I was fine, but I had a lot of really bad physical symptoms like headaches and stomach aches that wouldn’t go away. But when I was 13 and after she’d tied the knot again, after I’d long pushed it out of my mind, I stumbled into her old boyfriend while I was performing at a memorial day parade. Instant drama. I just started bawling and I couldn’t stop. I will never forget the shock I felt at my own grief. It’s hard to lose so many Dads. I had so many chances but never really got one.

So yeah, I think to a point it can be damaging to a child to become carelessly involved in relationships without regard for the child’s perspective on things. But there’s not really an indication that this is the case with the OP. From what I can tell he’s been seriously in love with this lady for a long time and considers the boy his own son. It sounds to me like he’d continue loving and supporting the son even if the relationship were to end. It sounds like a terrible situation for a family who loves one another very much.

And yes, what the mother did is absolutely abuse, and horrifying. But this unfortunate situation calls for empathy and support, not judgment. I give huge props to the OP for having the courage to lay it all out here and admit they need help.