I didnt :
jump to conclusions
make judgements
Or make them feel worse
or some other goofy stuff
The OP’s wife does not necessarily have an anger problem. Even the most well-adjusted, perfectly balanced and sane person can be pushed over the edge–even by a child. While it may be true that there isn’t “any excuse for beating a child like that”, there can be legitimate (yet still unacceptable) reasons why a loving and decent parent might lose control and beat their child.
So one incident with a belt and a cold shower will invaritably lead to this boy’s being addicted to drugs and blowing their brains out?
So, you are taking this posters one post as evidence of a life of physical and emotional ABUSE?
Slippery slope or hyperbole much ehh?
I wasnt there and NEITHER were you. It could have been an ass whiping that would have had a Nazi cringing or it could have been a tap that wouldn’t have squashed a bug. It could have been 3 hours in 32 degree water or 5 minutes in lukewarm water.
Most of the people I know got a small bit of physical punishment growing up. Optimum? Probably not if neccessary, but IMO it can have its time and place. But you know what else? I’d bet of my peers, the ones with a raw hide are statistically better off in all measures than the ones that got the hippy raising.
Some of you here may not believe in the belt OR got the crap beat out you as child, but I take great offense at the poster(s) being labeled as some kind of near child killers. Particularly when assumptions are made to even get to that labeling.
Precisely, and if you can find a pediatric neurologist, even better.
My oldest son was diagnosed with autism, after we ran the gauntlet of every other doctor and specialist we could find. Medications and a variety of therapies are helping him function, but he’s nowhere near what most would consider “normal,” and he may never be.
oh, something very unlikey, but I’'ll throw this out just in case.
Does the child sleep well?
Just the other day, Good morning america has a show where a young child was not getting enough sleep. He just COULD NOT sleep due to pressure on his spinal cord near the base of his brain.
His lack of sleep made him a terror…and you know the rest of the story.
Its a long shot, but you never know…
You have a witness here for that. My son needs lots of sleep- always has been a great sleeper. But Og forbid he doesn’t get enough sleep. He becomes very emotional, like a woman with PMS. He’s still an 8’oclocker, and he wants so very badly to be a 9’oclocker, but he just can’t handle it.
I think you call out the cavalry. Pound on some doors till you get someone who really seems to know what’s going on with the kid. IANA neurologicalist or child psychologist but that level of defiance and resistance seem outside the norm. As such, average (or even above average) parents wouldn’t be able to cope and assist the child.
I work with elementary school children who are seriously emotionally disturbed. I know as an educator it is tiring, emotionally draining work and I always have great sympathy for even the worst parent that has to go home to a child like that. I love love my students but some days I go home crying because it is so hard to know what to do next.
You said your son was seeing a therapist, but his problems sound much more troubling than ADD- especially concerning is smearing his feces. I always cringe when we get a new kid who does not go to a psychiatrist and whose parents won’t even consider that medicine and therapy may be a necessity.
As much work as you do at home, it needs to be followed up at school (and vice versa). It needs to be consistent, fair and enforceable. He needs teachers who can handle and correct his behavior in a proper manner. You might want to talk to his teacher about creating a behavior plan so you can all be on the same page.
My advice is to get your son properly diagnosed and, if at all possible, find a school that has a program that can deal with his unique problems. The one I work in is a temporary program to work with kids and teach them acceptable behavior so they can go back to a regular classroom.
It will be important that should you son be found have behavioral or mental problems that his school give him the services he will need to succeed. Exceptional children can get lost in the system and it takes a diligent parent to be the best advocate. Teachers not trained to work with EC kids can be easily frustrated and unsure of what to do. He might need something like behavior support in class.
You sound like caring and loving parents pushed to the limit. You need to step back from the situation and realize you cannot do it yourself and get professionals to help find the path again. Just remember that even at his worse this is the child you love and he is not 100% bad- it just feels that way. Notice the funny things he says, the good decisions he makes and create an emotional blanket to get you through the hard times.
I have no advice, but my heart goes out to you.
I work with elementary school children who are seriously emotionally disturbed. I know as an educator it is tiring, emotionally draining work and I always have great sympathy for even the worst parent that has to go home to a child like that. I love love my students but some days I go home crying because it is so hard to know what to do next.
You said your son was seeing a therapist, but his problems sound much more troubling than ADD- especially concerning is smearing his feces. I always cringe when we get a new kid who does not go to a psychiatrist and whose parents won’t even consider that medicine and therapy may be a necessity.
As much work as you do at home, it needs to be followed up at school (and vice versa). It needs to be consistent, fair and enforceable. He needs teachers who can handle and correct his behavior in a proper manner. You might want to talk to his teacher about creating a behavior plan so you can all be on the same page.
My advice is to get your son properly diagnosed and, if at all possible, find a school that has a program that can deal with his unique problems. The one I work in is a temporary program to work with kids and teach them acceptable behavior so they can go back to a regular classroom.
It will be important that should you son be found have behavioral or mental problems that his school give him the services he will need to succeed. Exceptional children can get lost in the system and it takes a diligent parent to be the best advocate. Teachers not trained to work with EC kids can be easily frustrated and unsure of what to do. He might need something like behavior support in class.
You sound like caring and loving parents pushed to the limit. You need to step back from the situation and realize you cannot do it yourself and get professionals to help find the path again. Just remember that even at his worse this is the child you love and he is not 100% bad- it just feels that way. Notice the funny things he says, the good decisions he makes and create an emotional blanket to get you through the hard times.
None of these anecdotes relating poster’s personal experiences regarding guesstimated diagnoses or meds are helpful.
This child needs testing and evaluation by professionals, and therapy designed by professionals for his specific needs. I don’t know the specifics of how things work in your school district, John Stamos’, but in mine the public schools must do testing for special services at the parent’s request and if they (they, in my district being a Child Study Team) are worth their salt they should be able to refer you to qualified professionals to do the medical testing for a diagnosis that they cannot legally make. The terminology for each state/district is different, but if he is diagnosed, he should qualify (again, variances from state to state) for special services under Other Health Impaired and his diagnosis must be addressed/accommodated in his IEP. You and his mother will need to be proactive in your advocacy for him… it can be a daunting system, but does have benefits for your child and ultimately your family. This is all under the federal umbrella of IDEA. Other possibilities are a 504 plan under ADA or simply a behavior plan. With either option the parents, physicians, and schools need to work together for this child.
If you choose not to go this route, speak with the school nurse (who knows and dispenses meds for these kids and has contact with their parents and physicians) to get a referral from him/her for a psychiatrist/neurologist with whom she/he has had positive experiences and feedback. As stated numerous times in this thread… this child needs an evaluation and treatment, and I simply point out that the school or school nurse are resources to point you in the right direction based on their increasing experience with behaviors like these… better than a cold call from the yellow pages. I also echo the comment that this is beyond a pediatrician or family practice physician.
Having worked with these children, their parents and their teachers, I extend to you the hope that there is help, there are answers, and there are successes.
p.s. what** boofuu** said too
My heart goes out to you while you are dealing with this. Although the behavior you described does sound a bit more severe than just ADD/ADHD, many of the symptoms are very similar to my son who has ADHD. The only thing I have to maybe help you is this support group for people and families dealing with ADHD: http://www.chadd.org/
I don’t know if there is something about this organization that I don’t know about, but my son had been diagnosed for four years, and it was never brought up to me. We went through several doctors, and even changed schools (with many, many meetings at the schools) before I stumbled upon this group on my own. So, I don’t know why this group was never brought up to me, and maybe you have also not heard of them. I am not someone to go to support groups. What this group did in my area is provide parenting classes that specifically talked about how to raise children with ADHD. It gave my husband (also a step father to my son) and I a common ground to start with, from understanding the medical issues to disciplining him. It also brought us together with a lot of other parents that are dealing with the same issues as us.
Like many of the posters above have already said, IANAD and wholeheartedly agree that your family should seek professional help.
Anyways, good luck with the meeting at the school. Those are hard. I like to think that I am a tough person, but I leave those meetings in tears every time. Keep in mind that you are not bad people or bad parents.
I think Shayna says it best.
In the meantime, the Summerhill school is the first thing I thought about when reading the OP.
Very sorry for what you’re all going through, John Stamos.
Don’t tell her “the message board says we should get counseling and psychiatric help.” Tell her you believe your family needs counseling and psychiatric help. We’re all guessing here based on varying degrees of experience, but you’re aware something in your family needs to change immediately. So stand firm on that.
There’s a situation a bit like this in my family, and it’d be better if the parents never came back in. But they’re not you: while you two are obviously doing some things that are not working at all, you are actually making an effort. Don’t give up, but don’t expect an easy answer. Get help. You are the parents: you can’t fix all the problems but you do have to make the decisions. Find alternatives, like the ones being suggested here, tough out what is going on with your child without hitting him again, and make your best choice among the treatment options. Good luck.
My mother works in the field of social work and sees many children with different types of psychological issues. You story reminded me of one boy on her caseload who is a teenager, who seemed to be bright and intelligent, but who would repeatedly poop in his pants. He would often do it in school, and as you can imagine, he got terribly ridiculed. So then he just plain refused to go to school. Well this got him into a ton of trouble for truancy, and long story short, they put him into juvenile detention for this, and he kept shitting his pants. A medical examination turned up nothing physically wrong with him to cause him to poop his pants (i.e. not digestive or intestinal problems, etc.) I never did find out what his diagnosis was.
It also reminds me of another kid who was in the system who was in the news recently. She was a kid with attachment disorder who ended up murdered, and her mother was arrested in connection with her death. (Please note: I am NOT saying that I think you or your wife are a threat to your son!) Here and here are newspaper articles about the case. Anyway, my mom knew a lot of details about this girl and her condition (that are not mentioned in the articles), and it sounds like perhaps your son may have it. The girl was A LOT of trouble, similar to what you described with your son. Unfortunately, in this case, it sounds like the girl was so much trouble that it caused her mother to “snap.” Apparently, the mother was using a controversial treatment technique on the girl which seemed really cruel (for example, the girl had to “earn” her food and clothing. We think this is why she was found wandering naked in a tarp in her neighborhood when the neighbors found her, and why she was starving - see second article. The mother would also take her to school/treatment wearing a trash bag because she had not earned her clothing that day.) It’s such a very sad story!
Anyway, I am really sorry for what you are going through. I do NOT think you or your wife are bad people or bad parents. It seems that it’s gotten to the point where your son seriously needs psychiatric help, and that there’s not much you can do at this point. Regardless of whether your marriage is official and on paper or not does NOT matter, like some people implied above. You son is very lucky to have a father figure in his life, and you obviously love him very much.
If you can’t afford the medical help, your state may be able to help. I know that the agency my mother works for sees kids with problems all the time, and the state/county will pay for care and treatment if you can’t afford it. Contact your local social services agency.
That’s odd. I can understand the belt-whipping – I don’t approve, but I understand. But what inspired her to do this? Is it a punishment she was given as a child? And why did she forbid him to scream?
Regardless of how bad anyone here thinks this is, it is the kind of thing that looks really bad to authorities. For the OP’s sake, he’d better not do anything like this. In fact, he probably shouldn’t carry out any physical punishment on the child from now on. If someone dropped a dime, he’d never see that kid again.
(And when I say “someone,” I do NOT mean me! Not a threat, just advice.)
I don’t see this kid as fatherless at all! He has a father, albeit a stepfather. The poster sounds like he’s bonded with the boy as completely as a bio dad would.
Okay, my advice…get to the pediatrician and have him recommend a psychiatrist. This boy may need to be hospitalized so they can run a full battery of tests and observation and really determine what the problem is. It might take some time, but you need to take a team approach. Medical, emotional, parental, educational, etc. You have a problem on your hands and it is far beyond parenting issues.
You wouldn’t try to get your car repaired by taking it to an accountant. This is the same thing. You need some positive, forward motion within your family dynamic.
Best of luck to you.
:rolleyes:
Oh yes, because everyone KNOWS that married people never do this to eachother. Not having a marriage certificate does not make one less committed, it just makes the ending of a relationship less expensive.
The only way I see this boy having this much of a reaction to the living arrangement is if other people are making a big deal about it, planting the fear in him, and then feeding it instead of dealing with their own issues. Maybe he picked up on this from his mom and/or grandmother? We could debate this all day and still not have the answer because none of us are in a position to diagnose and treat this family.
The best advice that has been given by so many is for the whole family to seek professional counseling and determine what course of treatment is best for them.
Thank you for the responses. Even the few that were not helpful but instead came off as judgemental were helpful anyway because I got to show this thread to his mom and point out that if she could handle anonymous people who didn’t get it, she could handle people we have to meet with (school administrators, doctors) who will get it.
I do want to clear up a couple of things - I hope that this willput some things to rest:
On the subject of our marriage, we are not legally married for only one reason: Money. The system is set up where if we were to get married, she would lose a lot of money in taxes (several thousand a year) that she gets back as a single mom and even worse, her job has no benefits and mine does not offer benefits for families so both mom and son would not have health insurance.
As a parent, we are to provide for our children. Having a legal marriage would hamper our ability to provide for our son, right at a time when he needs healthcare most.
Additionally, we have what I am calling a “Commitment Ceremony” in September. Mom didn’t like us using that term, says it takes away from what gays and lesbians are forced to do, but I think we’re all in the same boat for very different reasons.
Mom was not some 16 year old when she got knocked up and I am sorry I was less clear than I might have been - she was 18 and in college. Yeah, she had to stop college and bio-dad was NEVER in the picture but she had a great support system in place with a grandmother and several sisters all around at all times.
Besides, our son has no idea what marriage is because he doesn’t really know anyone who is married - we live in an inner city. The neighbor who watches him is a grandmother who helps raise the kids of her daughter - no dad in site. None of his aunts are married. His uncle is married but he lives in California and doesn’t see him often. And his mom hardly ever introduced him to men in her life, and when there was an introduction, it was as a friend. I am the first person who stayed over with him in the house, and the last.
In short: I am in a committed, loving relationship with a woman and I love her child. As I said to her this morning, all of this should prove it more than any paper could - I could walk out that door. But I won’t. I never will.
As for “abuse,” I cannot predict the future but I would bet that this situation is a lot more like that of the poster who mentioned her father’s one-time beating and subsequent anguish and it never happening again than the continuation of a cycle or escalation. Mom and I have made a pact to not hit our son again at all and I am pretty confident we will manage it.
What happened was not something we took lightly and we are still anguishing over it. More importantly, the very next day he smeared his shit on our own bathroom wall, even after that spanking. So if corporal punishment doesn’t work, there’s no reaon to continue it.
[As an aside, I am NOT against corporal punishment. My dad and even a teacher with my parents permission spanked or paddled me as a youth. It didn’t happen often but it did when I deserved it and it worked and I suffered no short- or long-term issues from this punishment. It isn’t working for our son so we won’t do it.]
There was good advice here about a neurologist and we will step things up with those currently in the loop (he is seeing a psychiatrist and therapist plus there are also school administrators who have a hand in his life and growth). We will get to the bottom of this.
I do want to say one thing: If you ever met anyone at their absolute worst moment, you would not think much of them. By the same token, think about you at your worst moment and imagine how someone who has only that to go on would feel about you. It can’t be pretty.
This is us - my family - at its worst moment. If that opens us up to ridicule and judgement, so be it. We will have to deal with that from people who have far more of an impact on our lives than some voices on a message board, and we will overcome them because that’s what families do.
I shaed this to vent and to get advice and I have and I did. Right now, we’re going out for pancackes, the start of a new day with new clarity and a new purpose.
Wish us luck…
Hell yes- good luck.