This is why we have juvinile delinquints.(long)

The BBQ Pit
1

I have a very good friend, who is being investigated by the child welfare services. Here’s why.

Her son is 12 years old, he is mildly autistic and has ADHD. He is also very good at manipulating people and situations. Last week, he spent the day playing in the living room downstairs. My friend called him to come upstairs for dinner. She told him that after dinner he had to clean up in the living room, then he could have dessert. He went back downstirs to clean up, then back up to the kitchen and told his mother the room was clean. Later, my friend went into the living room and found it still messy. She again told her son he needed to clean it up. He did, then he went to bed. His bedroom is also downstairs.

My friend went food shopping after he went to bed. His father was upstairs sleeping. She brought in all of her groceries, put them away and went into the living room to watch TV. She found that her son had destroyed the room. He threw her collectable dolls on the floor, her collectable bears were also tossed around the room. He pulled down all the pictures, broke the glass and the frames and carved pictures into all of the end tables, coffee table and entertainment center.

My friend was angry. She woke up her son and told him that he had to clean up his mess and he was grounded for a month. He just grinned at her and told her that was what she gets for making him clean up. Now she was more angry. She slapped him open handed on the arm one time. He then cleaned the room.

The next day at school he had an argument with another child. My friend’s son started throwing punches and the other kid punched back. The boys were separated and my friend was called. The teacher asked her why her son was acting up so badly. My friend explained to the teacher what had happened the night before. The teacher put her on hold, came back to the phone and told her that her son had a black eye. The kid told the teacher his mother had given it to him !

Later that night, there was a knock on her door. Child welfare was there and demanded to inspect the three kids for bruises and interview them away from their parents. They found nothing. But they told my friend that she and her husband may not touch the kids to dicipline them in any way, the only acceptable punishment for the 12 year old is a 12 minute time out. And my friends now have to attend parenting classes. The doctors and teachers have been told to keep an eye out for abuse.

Her son has been to counciling for years, he attends a special school and he has been known to lie and overall be a diciplinary problem. My friend has two other children that do not share these problems.

Since child welfare has been to her house. He son will intentionally break household rules and smirk at his mother when she tells him to stop. He will ask for snacks, five minutes from dinner time and if she says no, he tells the teacher the next day, that his parents aren’t feeding him.

My friend is angry and I am too. While child welfare was wasting their time with my friend, another child was truely being abused somewhere. Child welfare took all of the power in the house away from the parents and gave it to the child. This kid is going to be hell in a few more years, and my friend feels like there’s nothing she can do about it.

2

Well, I’m not sure if your story is why there are juvinile delinquints or not, but it’s a drag for your friend.

However, perhaps she can get some info from the parenting classes that will help her deal with her son - her method is obviously not working (the son is a brat) so maybe finding out about other methods could help.

Does the kid have a dad? Does he participate in the child-rearing as well?

3

That really bites. There are no easy solutions to a problem like this. How long has the child been a big behavior problem?

Hope things get better for your friend.

4

I don’t advocate child abuse in any way, shape, or form.

But this kid needs a good hard smack upside the head. Maybe several.

5

This might sound a little suspicious or intrusive, but perhaps your friend could set up cameras with sound around the house to record what really goes on. This way, if your friend’s child continues with his manipulative games and teachers/others report them to child welfare again, the surveillance will serve as proof that nothing unseemly is going on, thus putting a stop to his feeling of control over them.

6

Christ, that really, really sucks.

That kind of stuff really annoys me - I completely agree with you. Whilst Child Welfare is wasting their time here, there are kids out there who really need their help.
I don’t advocate violence towards children either, but me and my two brothers were all given the odd smack if we did something wrong. It helped to enforce the idea that whatever we had done was wrong, and made us remember not to do it again.
I see nothing wrong whatsoever with reasonable discipline, which is clearly all this was.

I really hope it all works out well for your friend.

7

Child Welfare was NOT wasting their time. Your friend is not being an effective parent. For whatever reason, it’s not working and they need to get into classes to learn how to deal with this kid. The kid may need more medication, a different kind of discipline, whatever. I disagree with the idea that a 12-minute time-out is the only discipline they can give him, but spanking generally doesn’t work. Especially with a problem kid. Tell your friend to get into counseling. It’s only going to get harder.

8

The kid’s father was upstairs sleeping when he trashed the living room, this was late at night. He spends a lot of time with his children talking to them and playing with them.

The son has always been difficult, even when he was a baby. As he got a little older and started preschool, his teachers noticed the problems he was having. He is my friends first child and she just thought his behavior was normal for a 3 or 4 year old.

9

Amen, Kalhoun.

Child Welfare is doing their job when they investigate and monitor a mother who strikes her mentally ill son. This doesn’t sound like a kid whose being a brat and just needs a little discipline–he sounds like a kid with some serious mental health issues who needs extensive psychological help and a mother who knows how to handle him without exacerbating the situation.

Frankly, I think ineffective parents (especially ones with mentally ill children) are responsible for more “juvinile delinquints” then an incompetent child welfare system.

10

Kalhoun , with all due respect, I must say sometimes no matter what the parents do, children misbehave. There are some instances where the misbehavior may be due to factors completely out of the parent’s control.

11

As I said earlier, she has two other children that don’t have the same problems with behavior as the oldest one.

It’s wrong to get child welfare involved. The child is not abused. She’s taken all kind of suggestions from teachers, doctors, other parents, etc. but nothing is helping the situation.

12

It’s wrong to get child welfare involved? Sorry, I disagree strongly - as a tax payer I want child welfare to get involved when a child has a black eye and reports that the parent gave it to him/her. That’s exactly what they’re there for. If your friend is not abusing her child, this will be (eventually) discovered, and in the meantime, she may have access to more information and help for the child. If she is abusing her child (and the fact that the other kids are not showing signs of abuse does not mean that the one who has behavioral issues isn’t being abused), then exactly the right people are involved.

we jump all over CPS when they don’t get involved, here you have a case where a child has physical evidence of being hurt, reports that the parents caused it and you’re saying that CPS shouldn’t be involved?

13

I agree with Kalhou. In a completely non judgemental way, this is the parent’s fault. Not intentionally, not negligently, but simply out of ignorance.

At some point, the necessary actions weren’t taken to ensure that this child was properly adjusted. The warning signs weren’t recognized. It isn’t a poor reflection on the parents, but no-one recognized that the kid needed more than he was getting.

14

Did you read my OP ?

The son had a fight with another child at school. The black eye was not even a black eye. It was a small, yellowing bruise between his eyebrow and hairline.

I’ve known my friend for over 15 years. She has worked harder then anyone I know, trying to raise her children to be responsible members of society when they grow up. She’s been all over the place trying to find good schools, doctors and councelors for him. She tried talking to him about how he trashed her living room. She grounded him. He never mentioned the bruise on his eye until the teacher asked him about how it got there, but he was more then willing to tell his teacher about the grounding for a month and the slap on the arm before she even called the parents.

There are kids all over the world being burned with cigarettes, beaten with objects, sexually abused and neglected. A slap on the arm is nothing.

15

Add me in as a second on wiring the house with cameras, of course you would have to do a clean job or they will be discovered, the kid is 12 and will probably find ways to defeat or vandalize the camera. Even if it is just audio having a record of evens could save your friend from being abused by her child via CPS.

Unfortunately for your friend they have already been talking to CPS, they may or may not have done themselves any favors. The minute CPS shows up on your doorstep, speak to them as you would a police officer questioning you about a crime. They are not allowed to perform searches without warrants or question minors without representation (parent, attorney, etc) any more than a police officer.

Immediately after being involved in a scuffle with another kid at school…Invoking CPS for an injury most likely inflicted by someone other than the parent is pure bullshit.

16

Listen very closely. Your friend is not providing the environment that this child needs. She hasn’t been for a long time. It is not a bad reflection on her; she just can’t give him the help and treatment he needs. Or isn’t.
As for the eye.
I am a teacher, Mrs. Smith. Little Johnny has an African-American eye.

“Why Little Johnny, how did you get that black eye?”

“My mommy punched me in the face.”
CPS: “Hello?”

Mrs. Smith: “Little Johnny has a black eye. He says his mother gave it to him.”

CPS: “We will investigate immediately.”

17

Despite the spin on my last post I am forced to agree with this. Your friend is not equipped with the proper techniques to effectively discipline this child. Every kid is a little different, some are alot different.

18

Look, my friend has been doing everything she can. The environment the child is in, is exactly what the doctors are telling her to do, when there are problems, she calls them and speaks to them about what is going on to find something else to do with him.

As for the eye, it went a little more like this.

Teacher: “Why are you in such a bad mood ? Why did you fight with Johnny ?”

Child: “I’m mad ! My mommy grounded me for a month last night and she slapped my arm.”

Teacher: “Where’d you get that bruise on your eye, did your mommy do that too ? She’s not allowed to beat you up.”

Child: (wheels start turning)“Yeah, yeah, that’s right, she did that too.”

19

re: damage to eye

A. when the child was being questioned, he stated that the parent had done it the night before. Even if he’d just gotten into a scuffle at the school, I still maintain that it is absolutely correct given the observable damage and statement from the child to get CPS involved.

B. From my experience, bruises arent’ necessarily visible right after the injury. Depending on the circumstances, there’s often been times when I got injured and the bruise appeared the next day. Ditto for my son (who did indeed get into a scuffle at the school and when I saw him an hour later, there was a red mark, but no bruise, but the next day there was a visible bruise).

20

While it bothers you that the teacher got CPS involved, I suspect that the teacher had no choice. In most states teachers, like EMTs(me) and certain other professions are mandatory reporters of child abuse. If the kid told the teacher “I have a black eye because my Mom hit me.” That’s required to be reported, no judgement calls involved.