I want to give away our child

[WhyNot]

@Rilchiam

Funny how, when there’s a thread like this in MPSIMS or IMHO, about a situation that’s not yet at critical mass, someone mentions child services and they’re called self-righteous and accused of trying to destroy families. Meanwhile, in RO threads in the Pit, when the kid is dead or permanently damaged, people ask, “How could this happen? Didn’t anyone SEE? Why didn’t they report it?”

I think it speaks pretty clearly to how Child Protective Services is perceived in our current society. That is, they’re not there to help, they’re there to punish. I don’t think this is entirely true, but that’s why it comes up more in the Pit. MPSIMS is where we come for advice and support. Pit stuff is where the cries for punishment and retribution go.

ETA: Notice that clair’s post is being read as being a threat, an insult, and a judgement, not another attempt to procure help for the OP. It’s *advice *to say, “you need professional help, man!” but it’s a *threat *to say that CPS (that is, professional help) should be called.

[clairobscur]

@astro

Many, many parents, I’d almost be willing to say most parents at one time or another during their lives have lost their shit with their normal kids just being their snotty selves, and delivered a serious smackdown on the kid. If this becomes chronic then kids need to be removed, but if you think you should be pulling kids for an utterly uncharacteristic one off incident there would not be enough social services on this planet to handle the load.

I didn’t advocate pulling the kid, I advocated warning the services who are able to evaluate the kid’s situation and what could be best for him, which is more likely to be helping the parents, if they’re as in control and reasonable as you assume they are (despite the mother wanting a one year break and the other tales of woe) than to be strapping the kid, drugged to the eyes, to a bed, as you stated. I’m making the adventurous assumption that American CPS workers aren’t raving lunatics out to destroy kids and parents in the worst possible way.

Sorry for not having hugged the parents, like most posters did, they didn’t appear to me to be the priority here. It seemed to me that after so much love dispensed by my fellow dopers, it was useful to recentre the thread on the big red flashing “KID IN DANGER” sign that was right in the middle of the OP’s post.
I stand by my stance. Again, YMMV.

[MsWhatsit]

@clairobscur

Sorry for not having hugged the parents, like most posters did,

I have no idea what thread you were reading, but it obviously wasn’t this one.

[LouisB]

My Darling Marcie had/has ADD and was horribly abused by her mother as a child; how much her mother was stressed by the ADD is something I don’t know. I do know that Marcie wasn’t taken to any sort of specialist until she took herself to one when she was in her late 30s; she was diagnosed as having ADD and PTSD (as a result of the abuse). With medication and therapy, she managed to get herself together well enough to hold jobs and to do well at them. But, the demons returned and she has had to take a disability retirement at the age of 48. No one knows how her life would have turned out under other circumstances but we do know how it turned out given the circumstances she had. She is now back in therapy and appears to be doing well but who knows? Her problems are severe.

I tell her story only to reinforce what all the others have said: get competent, expert professional help. For all of you and not just your son. Please.

[Jenaroph]

@clairobscur

I’m making the adventurous assumption that American CPS workers aren’t raving lunatics out to destroy kids and parents in the worst possible way.

It is a fairly adventurous assumption. Here’s an example. Granted, that case turned out all right and no real harm was done, largely because most of the people involved were sane, but given bureaucratic snafus like this, and far far worse abuses on record, calling CPS is a last resort, not a first one.

[Enola_Gay]

@billfish678

I didnt :

jump to conclusions

make judgements

Or make them feel worse

or some other goofy stuff

@astro

It’s must be nice to puff up your chest and proclaim judgement on someone looking for help in a near impossible situation.

Exactly. Interesting that a guy comes here asking for help and support, but instead gets condemnation and criticism from certain posters. These posters* claim* that they are motivated by their concern for this poor child. Utter bullshit. If they had any regard for the child they wouldn’t be trying to shame the father *who is reaching out for help *into silence. Clearly their motivation is to feel morally superior to another person…and in this case the other person is in crisis and is asking for help. Pitiful.

To the OP: I am sure you will get through this. I think this boy has some psychiatric issues that can probably be alleviated with the proper medication. I have a nephew who had similar issues, though less severe. My SIL was (initially) very averse to using “drugs on her child” but once she got past that and they found the right medication (after much trial and error), her son became a completely different kid…very reasonable and rational. Sometimes the brain chemistry of kids needs a little tweaking.

I wish you good luck and sincerely believe that you and your partner will find a solution here. I also admire you for taking on a challenging child who is not biologically yours and ALSO for honestly reaching out for help in a difficult situation. That alone tells me that you will solve this problem. All the best to you.

[vison]

I can only repeat what others have said: Get professional help. And if the first professional doesn’t help, keep trying until you get someone who does.
Good luck. I hope you find the help you all need.

[Broomstick]

@clairobscur

I didn’t advocate pulling the kid, I advocated warning the services who are able to evaluate the kid’s situation and what could be best for him

Unfortunately - and I don’t think there is anyway you could know this - CPS varies wildly in the US. In some locations they are saints and guardian angels. In some locations they swoop in, remove the kid(s), and slap felony charges on the parents before they even start an investigation.

I have called CPS on an abusive parent, then followed up with them giving them the guilty party’s new address when she skips town. The system can work. There are other times, in another place, I did not call CPS because I thought the local CPS were more likely to make the situation worse rather than better because at the time there had been a spate of children dying of abuse in foster care.

These people are already seeking help. The people they are seeking help from, who are observing their child, are mandated to report any signs of abuse they see. I’m not sure where additional notification is a net benefit here given the limited information we have here although I’m certainly willing to debate the matter because re-examining such ethical issues can be a good thing.

[Stainz]

I work for the Child Services Ministry in my province, and we are not ogres who are looking for any excuse to take a child away and “ruin” a family.

Sometimes getting involved with Child Services can: give a family access to the professional help they need; push schools to develop behaviour plans; provide parents with the skills they need to handle a difficult child; provide respite care to parents who are at their breaking point.

Sometimes Child Services’ involvement can be the best thing that ever happened to a family.

Trust me, the system is so overworked and underfunded, that the LAST thing we want to do is remove a child from his/her family.

[eleanorigby]

[QUOTE=John_Stamos’_Left_Ear;10740454
As for “abuse,” I cannot predict the future but I would bet that this situation is a lot more like that of the poster who mentioned her father’s one-time beating and subsequent anguish and it never happening again than the continuation of a cycle or escalation. Mom and I have made a pact to not hit our son again at all and I am pretty confident we will manage it.

What happened was not something we took lightly and we are still anguishing over it. More importantly, the very next day he smeared his shit on our own bathroom wall, even after that spanking. So if corporal punishment doesn’t work, there’s no reaon to continue it.

[As an aside, I am NOT against corporal punishment. My dad and even a teacher with my parents permission spanked or paddled me as a youth. It didn’t happen often but it did when I deserved it and it worked and I suffered no short- or long-term issues from this punishment. It isn’t working for our son so we won’t do it.]

There was good advice here about a neurologist and we will step things up with those currently in the loop (he is seeing a psychiatrist and therapist plus there are also school administrators who have a hand in his life and growth). We will get to the bottom of this.

I do want to say one thing: If you ever met anyone at their absolute worst moment, you would not think much of them. By the same token, think about you at your worst moment and imagine how someone who has only that to go on would feel about you. It can’t be pretty.

This is us - my family - at its worst moment. If that opens us up to ridicule and judgement, so be it. We will have to deal with that from people who have far more of an impact on our lives than some voices on a message board, and we will overcome them because that’s what families do.

I shaed this to vent and to get advice and I have and I did. Right now, we’re going out for pancackes, the start of a new day with new clarity and a new purpose.

Wish us luck…
[/QUOTE]

I wish you the best of luck and admire your strength to post on a public board. We’re not likely to agree on corporal punishment, but that’s a minor issue. I don’t see where anyone has ridiculed you or the mom. I read mostly sympathetic posts in response to your cry for help. You have a tough road ahead. I hope all of you find your way.

[CairoCarol]

I have no idea if Parents Anonymous would be helpful or not - the only experience I had with them was 35 years ago when, because I was a petit and non-threatening college intern, the advocacy organization I was working for sent me to talk to them to seek their help in preparing a case against CPS for failing to help desperate families.

Anyone here know if PA could be a helpful resource? I understand that what the OP described is not an ongoing cycle of abuse, and I’m not extrapolating from the facts presented to assume that there is. However, my sense is that PA might be a helpful source of support from other parents - when you FEEL like beating your kid, you can call a friend from PA instead.

[Guinastasia]

@billfish678

So one incident with a belt and a cold shower will invaritably lead to this boy’s being addicted to drugs and blowing their brains out?

Of course not. However, your whole, “Oh, I was smacked with a belt, and I turned out FINE!” does not mirror most of the statistics.

And not using corporal punishment does not = a “hippy” upbringing, whatever the fuck that means.
At any rate-I was more “afraid”, if you will, by my dad getting pissed. He didn’t even lay a hand on me-he’d just talk in this very low voice, very slowly, and he’d get this EXTREMELY angry look on his face. He’s six-foot-three, and I’d be scared out of my wits. But he never laid a hand on me. (Except the one time I was screaming hysterically and he slapped me across the face to get me to stop.)

I do NOT think the parents here are abusers-I think the woman snapped this time, and I think this boy is extremely troubled and needs serious, psychological and psychiatric help-NOT more punishment. (Which, by the OP’s own account, did absolute squat)
To the OP-PLEASE do not think I was calling your wife an abusive parent-merely disagreeing with those who said, “meh, I was hit, and I turned out fine!” It happened, and I’m rooting for you guys. Good luck, and good wishes. I’ll keep you in my thoughts.