For some reason, he wasn’t in the office Wednesday or Thursday ( I think he was scheduled to be at a meeting or something). Lame, he should have been made to have the meeting… so the face to face sit down didn’t happen. I have no idea of what (if any) disciplinary action has been dealt to him. This dingleberry of a project manager obviously has some issue with me that has yet to be resolved. I would like to know why he has it in for me.
I requested tomorrow (Friday) off weeks ago. I am going out of town Friday - Sunday. So the meeting probably won’t happen until next week
In the meantime, I am just going to avoid him as much as possible. Make as much of my contact through email.
With a touch of insanity. I love my job and I am not going to let this jerk run me out. My husband thinks that is what he is trying to do. Mr Geeks theory is that he was trying to push my buttons that day, trying to get me to react, and it didn’t work, and he was pissed off about it.
Our whole office consists of three (different) departments and 13 people, including managers. Very small office. There isn’t anywhere else for me to go. So far the only solution has been “just stay away from each other” :dubious:
Very unlikely since out company has and does encore a nepotism (sp?) policy.
Possible, but in Nevada you can be canned for no reason at all.
Maybe this could be combined with the giant roulette ball of death. Televised on Pay-Per-View. Oh, that’s not very professional of me…
Well, I can’t speak for the Army. But yelling, cursing, and physically intimadating a coworker would definately not be tolerated in a Navy office. At least none I ever worked at (6 years of experience in Navy offices), or my husband (26 years of experience). At the very least, the guy would have gotten a counseling chit, in my experience.
I’m not saying what this guy specifically did would be allowed in the army. It wouldn’t, he went way over the line. As to what does go on…Phyically intimadating someone? No. Cursing? In an office not so much. In the field? It is the army, we have a reputation to uphold. Yelling? Sometimes. It depends on the situation. If someone goes around yelling at his subordinates over every little thing that would not be tolerated.
It doesn’t sound like your company is taking this very seriously. If they won’t take it seriously, and this JPM continues to harass you, you might have to look at taking a different job for your own sanity. In that case, you will need to document everything that has happened here and might happen in the future for your magnificent hostile workplace suit.
I guess my objection here is that so many people on this thread seem to think that, because the guy was a Marine, he learned this type of conflict-resolution in the Marines, where yelling, cursing and intimidating are believed to be common and expected.
And, except to a limited extent in basic training, this isn’t true. For what it’s worth, I do think casual swearing is probably more common in military spaces than it is in civilian offices. Occasional yelling is probably also a bit more common – in the field anyway. I was never in a combat situation, but I can see that tempers might run higher than usual there. And I know that, on ships (I never did any sea duty, myself, but my husband did, plenty), which is the ‘field’ equivalent in the regular Navy, yelling matches did occasionally occur. But this isn’t really encouraged, nor is it expected or excused as 'military-style leadership."
Anyway, Army or Navy, we seem to agree that the specific type of yelling, cursing and finger-pointing that the OP outlined would not be tolerated… I wonder that no Marines have chimed in.
Yes, I’d also like to hear what other military and former-military people have to say. I have no military experience, but I’ve worked office jobs with people who came from the military (Navy and Air Force, as I recall) and if anything, they were less likely to loose it like this manager did. My recollection is that they were more worried about getting the job done, and were generally less interested in getting into pissing matches with their co-workers. I actually thought one of the reasons you hired people from the military was because they were better able to keep their cool and perform well in stressful situations?
I’m a project manager. No one on my project teams is my subordinate, I don’t manage any people. There are several I have a higher grade level than (and several on my team who likely outrank me in grade level). Sometimes they work for my boss - mostly they work for someone else, and you’d have to get to the CIO to find a common boss. But a project manager is not normally the boss. Its more of a “team lead” position to get a project through completion.
Now, not all PMs understand this, and I suspect this guy didn’t - but she isn’t his subordinate, unless I’m missing something. And from what I’m reading, it doesn’t look like the other people in her office see her as his subordinate either.
My take on the “military = inherently abusive motherfucker” thing is that while a lot of guys who are drawn to action and excitement sign up for the military (prolly from watching too much TV), the last thing they want is a bunch of overgrown kids playing War and running around like Rambo Wannabees all sweatin’ sperm and scaring the hell out of people. They need guys to be diplomatic and cool-headed. Even in a combat zone, you are representing the US and need to conduct yourself like a non-asshole. Not that they always succeed, mind you. But that’s the goal.
I was following on from what the OP said back on page 1:
When I worked in private consulting , it was similar. Project managers got that title because they had more years of experience/greater education than others, so they were more than just team leaders on paper - they managed both people and budgets. It certainly wasn’t a responsibility that was readily passed around in any of the companies I was familiar with. Which is why it baffles me completely that the OP’s company should have hired a guy with apparently no prior relevant experience and put him in this position, unless the hiring was done as a favor (although rank stupidity/shortsightedness is always possible).
Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are in fact taking it seriously. In any co-worker dispute, however, there are always at least three sides - the two employees involved, and management. And what is good for management is not necessarily what would be most appropriate for the wronged employee. It would indeed be wise for the OP to make sure she has all her documentation in order, for her own sake. I might be much too cynical, but my past experience suggests that the only party I could ever count on to look after my own interests when the going got rough was myself.
Lastly:
Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea how he came to be hired into this job with apparently zero experience? My cynicism wants to say that policies can be conveniently overlooked, but I’m willing to be proven wrong.
My state has at-will employment as well, but that has never stopped any of my employers from worrying on occasion about discrimination-based lawsuits (which can be filed in federal court).
Look out for your own interests. Given the actions (or lack thereof) taken so far, don’t
be surprised if the outcome is not as you hoped. Be prepared with a plan if the situation won’t improve in the very near future.
Of course this is another hijack, sorry LV. Feel free to skip to the next post.
Who says that yelling equals losing it? Take what happened in the OP out of the equation. That is unacceptable. However yelling or verbally kicking some ass does happen in the military and it is not cause for reprimands. It probably would happen rarely in an office setting or outside of combat arms. If it is a leader’s prefered method of leadership he won’t last long since none of his people will work very well for him.
I’ll give two examples of when I raised my voice to someone. A subordinate of mine was doing an initial counseling to another soldier. Counseling is very important in the army both formal and informal counseling. This was in an office setting while on deployment. Counseling is usually done in private but since this was just an initial counselling it was done in the office (what I mean is that nothing negative was going to be said about the soldier). This is done when someone starts a new job or gets a new boss. The boss sits down and tells him what the tasks, conditions and standards are for the job. This soldier started to quibble over everything, basically became a shithouse lawyer about every standard that was given to him. He was coming up and leaning over the line of insubordination. I saw the E7 who was counselling him working very hard to maintain his composure. This went on for quite a while until it reached a point where I felt I had to step in. This E5 talking this way to an E7 was not going to be tolerated, especially in an office with lower enlisted that both were supposed to lead. I let him have it with both barrels. Then I reloaded and fired both barrels again. Maybe a third time. I never made it personal (for instance calling him a worthless piece of shit). I didn’t try to phsyically intimidate him. But I did punctuate my point very clearly. If I had sat down with him and said “here is what I believe is unacceptable about your behavior,” I would have just heard more shithouse lawyering. In the year of our deployment it was the only time I raised my voice. I never had a problem with him again.
In the army we have something called a “SP”. Nothing very complicated, it stands for starting point. In reality it is very important. Everything hinges on the SP. You have to be sure to be at the SP when you are supposed to be. That is called the SP time. If your platoon does not make it’s SP time it may throw off the company which may screw up the battalion which may screw up the brigade… Making your SP time as ordered is very important. It is pounded into every young officer. “Never miss an SP time, never miss an SP time…” You are supposed to train as you fight so such things are just as important in training as it is in war. I had a slowpoke tank commander that was taking so long going through his premission checks that he was in danger of making the entire company late and screwing up the entire battalion plan. I had to motive him verbally. He became highly motivated. I did not wish to be motivated in that way by my battalion commander. Shit rolls down hill.
I have worked in an office outside of the military. I would never think to use this method in the civilian world.
In the military, rank and obedience are firmly entrenched; not so in the workplace. It’s a difficult transition to go from being saluted by your subordinates to being publicly defied by a subordinate. I think a large part of the Project Manager’s problem is that he feels that LVGeogeek has not been sufficiently deferential to him. Not only that, but she’s a girl.
I think you’ve nailed it. I think that this guy was hired not for his brilliance as a geologist, assuming he’s got any experience in that, but because he has prior management experience.
That said, there are still a fair number of older officers and senior enlisted who have problems with women being in the service, and probably by extension, in the workforce. It’s not necessarily overt sexism (although some of it is), but many servicemen have never worked with women and are just not comfortable working with them at all in the civilian sector. Throw in the military practices relating to rank, and it has the potential to be nasty. I’m not saying that it always has to be; I’ve worked with plenty of ex-military men who had no problems working with me at all.
That’s ridiculous. What century are you living in? The guy in the OP is what, 45? I’m 42, and from the day I joined the military I had female drill sergeants, female squad leaders, female platoon sergeants, female first sergeants, and female company commanders. My best friends are retired females I know from the military and I’m married to a very recently retired female officer.
Get with the times. If the guy’s a jerk, he’s a jerk. Drop the whole “it’s still 1940” mentality. It’s not that way anymore.
he is not a geologist at all. I guess he had a few years experience cleaning up oily sand at a military fleet area in Kuwait. I guess that counts as petroleum experience ?
I am. I am just saying, I am not going to quit right off and give him the satisfaction of “running me out”. I have been keeping my eyes on the job listings since this happened.
that’s all for now…
I’ve been following this thread but have not posted even though I am firmly on the OP’s side. I do want to answer sugar and spices question.
My husband is a twenty year Air Force veteran(retired). Three of my Uncles and four cousins were armed service members. Not a single one of them would treat a co-worker in this manner. I’d wager they would all see red if their respective wives were cornered and screamed at in there work office. I don’t doubt there are some ex service members with anger and violence issues, but I suppose they would be the ones who slipped throught the cracks. From my experience , Armed Services taught my kinfolk leadership skills and good work ethics.
I beg to differ. Women are still excluded from a number of military jobs, and there are men who hold various billets who have little, if any, day-to-day contact with women who work beside them. There are also those people who still believe that women have no place in the service and no place in the workforce. That may be a small number, but those people still exist.
Oh, that’s not very professional of me…