Quotes cleaned up for ease of reading:
[QUOTE=Marienee]
I hate like hell to ruin a good agreeable streak, but I can’t help it.
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
Not immolating yourself means setting limits and sticking to them. No, we are not going out in sleet to get you a new battery for your Nano–play with something else. No, the TV will not be on while you are doing homework or we are eating–as a matter of fact, let’s limit that idiot box quite strictly. No, just because Ashley has X doesn’t mean you get X. And on and on…
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that’s what it’s about at all. And I think this kind of thinking leads inevitably to this kind of thinking:
[QUOTE=Lunar Saltlick]
To me, this is the key, and it should be the first part of the question:
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Did you invest a lot in teaching your children manners, helpfulness and civilized behavior? Were you a loving, dependable, trustworthy adult all the time? Did you severely limit your children’s media exposure?
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Now, do you secretly despise your children?
I’m betting that most people who answer Yes to 1 will answer No to 2.
[/QUOTE]
Which is to say, if you did not do it right as a parent, your kids will suck and you will hate them. Please note that subsequently [“I know a woman who did a great job raising her son, but she’s always been extremely disappointed in her husband, who never made it off the shop floor. Her son has picked up on this, sided with his father, and is now making his mom pay.” - quote added by WhyNot], the blame is laid not at the feet of the “good” mother but at the feet of the “bad” father, narrowing responsibility again down to the actions of one individual who is held completely responsible for the “outcome” of a person who in all probability has not yet surpassed the age of twenty-two (and who therefore can hardly be said to have come out in any way unless it involved a closet).
[/quote]
If I’m reading this correctly, you’re alluding to what overlyverbose said, that people aren’t done developing at 18 or 21 or whenever we as a culture decide their parents’ primary responsibility is done, correct? Nothing about gay fathers.
I think this is A reason that SOME people immolate themselves, sure. Like I noted in passing, each step up to the altar seems reasonable at the time, and each bit of micromanaging is something that, if you don’t do it, people will call you to task for it in the extremely unlikely event that something bad happens.
I don’t think, however, that we all do the same thing for the same reason. There are probably a dozen reasons to crawl up on that altar, and we needn’t argue either/or.
I absolutely agree that it is important to let other people make their own boundaries and decisions when entrusted with your children. Kids who learn that there is more than one way to do things and that’s okay grow up, IMHO, to be more tolerant, flexible and people-skilled adults. On the other hand, the way you quoted **eleanorigby **makes it read like you’re disagreeing with her. She never said everyone in her children’s lives must follow her rules and procedures, only that she herself should be consistent, and not make rules that make her kids happiest in the moment, but make rules or agreements that also take her own happiness (or safety) into account, and serve the child’s long term good over present happiness.
In other words, I don’t think there’s disagreement here, just discussion of different things. **eleanorigby **is focused on her role as a parent, and you’re focused on the role of the wider community. Both are valuable discussions, but there was a bit of cross-talk there that was unclear on both your parts, at least to me.
Please, correct me if I’ve deciphered any of this incorrectly. I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouths, and I want to make sure I’m understanding everyone, especially **Marienee **and eleanorigby, before I continue.
stretch, no flames here, because I completely understand where you’re coming from. From the other side of the page, I’ve never understood exactly why it is that we’re “supposed to” love people we’re related to simply because we’re related to them. I’m grateful to my mother for all that she’s done for me, I acknowledge that for many years she was a good mother (until I become a teen, and then she sucked), and I feel legitimate filial respect for her. But if I were to meet her for the first time in my life right now at a dinner party, she’d be someone I’d exchange a few pleasantries with around the spinach dip and never think of again. We just don’t have much in common as people, and we wouldn’t become bosom buddies, and the fact that we share DNA has nothing to do with our emotions.
I find it unfortunate that your totally understandable lack of parenting skills has been passed down to your daughter, but that ship has sailed. As you’re trying to be a better grandparent, you’re doing all you can to rectify that. If she’s the sort of person who will not take it amiss, you might want to consider sticking a copy of Parenting With Love and Logic in her stocking this year; it might provide her with some skills and strategies she didn’t learn by observing you.
I swear I am “speaking” English on this board, but I must not be–where did I say anything about fathers being absent or bad parents? My husband (who is overall an excellent parent) does struggle more with being firm and reasonable with the teens–he excelled at babies and toddlers. He was smothered, and I mean smothered by a terrible mother. Frankly, both uncles seem to be not the best candidates for sitters, period. But of the two–the drinking problem one is NOT safe (I speak from experience here); the other one–ok as an occasional thing.
