"I'd rather have been BEATEN than see you spit in God's face." REALLY??

[begbert2]

@digs

Hi, guys, I got back as quick as I could.

But without much to add, because I think your mom’s a whack job.

Unfortunately, she’s found a faith that encourages that.

Ok, to be fair, I’ll say it encourages the “I’m responsible for your eternal soul, and if you don’t believe all the right things (which coincidentally are all the things that we, our church, and our not-particularly-well-rounded pastor believe), you’re going to be tortured forever… and it’ll be all my fault.”

Now, we have a rule with my parents to not bring up religion or politics (they actually thought Reagan was too “pinko”–their technical term). But our kids are more than willing to rant about both topics, knowing they’ll get an audience.

Just the other day, Atheist Kid breezes in for dinner and starts with “Christianity has GOT to be The Most! Fúcked Up! Religion! Ever! I mean, how many wars have been started by the followers of the Prince of Peace? Is that fûcked or what?” And I agreed with him (and tossed the f-word into my answer, of course), and we were off. We hit some New Testament and Bishop Tutu, a few tenets of Hinduism, the Upanishads, Penn Gillette, How The Hell Can There Be Wars Between Buddhist Nations, Jack Kerouac, David Cross, and, unexpectedly, that Inquisition… in Spain.

And it worked, because he knew that we think his experience is as important as ours, and that we’ll learn as much as he does when he “drops a rant on us”. The only time I play the Fundie card is when I end with “Sorry, can’t help throwing this in… but, when you say God doesn’t exist? You’re wrong. Just thought you’d want to know.” And he rolls his eyes.

Cyningablod, I feel for you (maybe I’ll pray for you, just to piss you off :})The “simply never let my mother get my goat again” is a great strategy. I wish you could explain to her that it’s not her responsibility, and that most Christians would say that you’re not damned (that’d be quite the surprise to a Fundie), and that she’d be happier if she could let it go. In fact, I wish a therapist could say that to her.

But, that’d come under the heading of you trying to change her, and you’re trying to get past that. So forget it. Just make a “no religion or politics” rule, and try to find topics you can be positive with her about. I sometimes even make a list before I call my mom, so that I’m sure to have something to distract her with.

*“Oh, dear, did you get my email about Osam–I mean Obama’s Witch’s Sabbath in the Oval Off–” *
“Oh, mom! Did you hear about the new Crate and Barrel going into your mall? It’s an outlet.”
“It IS? An outlet? Well, I’ll just have to tell the ladies in my book group. Oh, I just have to tell you about this Maeve Binchy book we’re re-reading…”

Are you quite sure you’re a Fundie? Not all Christians qualify.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@Oakminster

<snip>
No, I’ve had enough mental masturbation for the day. You fucking militant atheists need to get over yourselves already. You are not smarter, wiser, better informed, morally superior, or otherwise commendable for being an atheist. I’m an atheist, too, but I’m polite about it.

Now, I’m going to go play WoW. You can keep stroking your epeen or you can go to Hell. Either is fine with me.

I think I smell a new sig line.

@t-bonham@scc.net

<snip>
Of course, if she insists on the martyrdom of “emotional self-flagellation”, tell her “I would have turned out a decent Christian man if only you had raised me right!”

“So, where do you figure you screwed up, Mom?”

[begbert2]

@Oakminster

@begbert2

Now answer mine.

No, I’ve had enough mental masturbation for the day. You fucking militant atheists need to get over yourselves already. You are not smarter, wiser, better informed, morally superior, or otherwise commendable for being an atheist. I’m an atheist, too, but I’m polite about it.

Now, I’m going to go play WoW. You can keep stroking your epeen or you can go to Hell. Either is fine with me.

I might as well answer this too, seeing as it was addressed to me.

1. You are correct that I am not smarter, wiser, better informed or otherwise commendable due to being an atheist - that causality is backwards. I am an atheist because I am smarter, wiser, and better informed. I am morally superior due to my atheism, though, becuase all theistic moral systems are hollow.

2. If you couldn’t answer my argument, you could have just said so. No need to get all whiny and pissy about it.

[Chimera]

[QUOTE=begbert2;12774248I am an atheist because I am smarter, wiser, and better informed.[/quote]

Apparently not the first two, anyway.

I am morally superior due to my atheism, though, becuase all theistic moral systems are hollow.

Most definitely not, as your actions show.

[Miller]

@Cyningablod

@bdgr

If I were an atheist, I sure as hell wouldn’t tell my parents. It would seriously hurt them […]

I’m just not that insecure that I have to make a big deal out of it and rub their noses in it. Parents don’t need to know everything about their adult kids.

Umm…

So you think I should have deceived my mother by allowing her to go on thinking that I share her delusion? :eek:

How would that be very “Christian” of you? I thought y’all were all 'bout the thou-shalt-not-lie stuff? :dubious:

Well, yeah, but you’re an atheist. You’re already going to hell, so what’s a few lies before you get there?

[fluiddruid]

@begbert2

1. You are correct that I am not smarter, wiser, better informed or otherwise commendable due to being an atheist - that causality is backwards. I am an atheist because I am smarter, wiser, and better informed. I am morally superior due to my atheism, though, becuase all theistic moral systems are hollow.

Y’know, dude, this… really isn’t helping.

Now, I’m going to back away slowly lest I be burned by the white hot spittle being flung from your angry fleshmaw and go back over here with the normal, pleasant atheists. You can go hang out with the fundamentalists and share stories about why everyone is wrong except for you, m’kay?

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Cyningablod

@mother

I would rather have been physically beaten, than endure the pain of seeing my children spit in God’s face

Would you take a beating if it would cure your mother of her fundamentalist beliefs and her negative behaviors that resulted from that belief?

[digs]

@fluiddruid

@begbert2

1. You are correct that I am not smarter, wiser, better informed or otherwise commendable due to being an atheist - that causality is backwards. I am an atheist because I am smarter, wiser, and better informed. I am morally superior due to my atheism, though, becuase all theistic moral systems are hollow.

Y’know, dude, this… really isn’t helping.

Now, I’m going to back away slowly lest I be burned by the white hot spittle being flung from your angry fleshmaw and go back over here with the normal, pleasant atheists. You can go hang out with the fundamentalists and share stories about why everyone is wrong except for you, m’kay?

Ditto. Thanks for saying that.

And begbert, that was written with a much lighter touch than I could’ve managed. I really thought that the Closed-Minded Christians were the assholes of the philosophical world, but you’re fighting hard to make them look good.

Luckily, the atheists I know are much more laid back, and certainly more humble, or this’d really affect my attitudes.

::::tangent: Hey, someone should start the Atheist equivalent of a Bob Jones U., so that they can have as a team called the Asshole Atheists.

OK, trying hard not to picture the mascot…

[rivulus]

@Cyningablod

(A year or two ago I read about a study conducted by a cognitive psychologist and a neuroscientist into the cerebral “seats” of various emotions associated with virtue and vice. Know what they found? That when religious types express this sort of “suffering servant” rhetoric about themselves, that the same areas of the brain that are active during prideful bragging, become activated. In other words, there is reason to suspect that sanctimony, no matter how piously it’s phrased, is actually–literally–conceit in disguise. This would certainly fit well within my mother’s modus operandi.)

You know, I think I remember reading something much like this in the Screwtape Letters.

[Cat_Whisperer]

I’m more or less an agnostic - I don’t know for sure which is worse, Christian Fundamentalists or Atheist Fundamentalists.

[The_Hamster_King]

@Cat_Whisperer

I’m more or less an agnostic - I don’t know for sure which is worse, Christian Fundamentalists or Atheist Fundamentalists.

Well, the important thing is that you’ve found a way to feel superior to both.

[Cat_Whisperer]

Damn right.

[Cyningablod]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

@Cyningablod

Would you take a beating if it would cure your mother of her fundamentalist beliefs and her negative behaviors that resulted from that belief?

Nope. I don’t believe in suffering for others’ delusions. I do wish–and have ‘til now often attempted to rectify–others’ delusions, but I refuse to carry any personal emotional burden for them.

[Chimera]

The militant athiests in this thread seem to have some severe personality complexes. Acting smug and superior until challenged, then revealing the depths of their inferiority complexes by accusing their accusors of claiming to be superior. “I hate those people for acting superior! I’m superior to them! If you don’t like it, then stop trying to act superior to me! NYAHHH!!!”

Get the fuck over yourselves, grow up and be adults. You’re neither superior nor inferior, but you sure are acting like both at the same time.

[Silver_Fire]

I have no idea what about this thread is generating a “Find Sex Offenders” ad, but it makes me LOL.

Good luck ignoring her or doing the whole “That’s nice, Mom.” thing. Sometimes they get screechier and louder if you do that, probably because they feel like they’re being patronized, or whatever. I would just be honest with her and tell her that her religious badgering (you can phrase it nicer, maybe) is wearing thin and, while you understand that she is concerned for you, it isn’t really any of her business. If she can’t handle that, stop talking to her.

[SteveG1]

Next time she gets all teary and “take a beating for your soul” on you, just say…

“You know what makes me sad? You do!! Maybe we’ll just chug on over to namby pamby land where maybe we can find some self-confidence for ya, you jackwagon!!”

Just kidding. All mothers try to play some kind of Guilt Card. I bet they teach it in that top secret Mother School.

[digs]

@SteveG1

All mothers try to play some kind of Guilt Card. I bet they teach it in that top secret Mother School.

Yeah, I used to ask my mom “We’re Unitarians, right? Well, then how the hell did I get a Jewish mother?”

or I’d say:
“So, if I’m not feeling guilty about something, you haven’t done your job, right?”

Man, I was a pain as a kid…

[Lobohan]

As a militant atheist, I’d like to point out that believing something factual isn’t an opinion. An opinion is, “I enjoy the taste of cheese.” A fact is “Cheese, eaten in excess can cause health problems.”

Believing in Christianity (for instance) isn’t an opinion. It is expressing a series of factual beliefs, the resurrection, the divinity of Jesus, the existence of heaven / hell and other things (obviously depending on the particular sect).

It’s important to point out that Christianity and its assorted factual claims are made with no evidence at all. None. Really, there is zero evidence for Christianity and its assorted claims being true.

To accept and vociferously defend that panoply of beliefs with literally no evidence is an inherently stupid act. Every single religious person has decided to accept a series of factual claims that are utterly unsubstantiated. That’s delusional and stupid.

Now it’s important to mention that many atheists have delusional and stupid beliefs. I’m sure some atheists believe in homeopathic medicine or lucky lotto numbers, or whatever.

But *all *religious people need to have delusional and stupid beliefs as a necessary entry fee for the club. Any delusional and stupid beliefs that an individual atheist has are incidental.

So all religious people are delusional and stupid.
Some atheists are delusional and stupid.

Thank you.

[SteveG1]

Let’s cut to the chase. We are ALL stupid, each in our own chosen way.

It would explain a lot of things.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Cyningablod

And Good Og, is it ever cloying and infuriating!

@Cyningablod

@The_Flying_Dutchman

Would you take a beating if it would cure your mother of her fundamentalist beliefs and her negative behaviors that resulted from that belief?

Nope. I don’t believe in suffering for others’ delusions. I do wish–and have ‘til now often attempted to rectify–others’ delusions, but I refuse to carry any personal emotional burden for them.

But you are suffering. You’ve been carrying these emotional burdens for quite some time, enraging you to the point of infuriation.

You are pitting your own mother for fuck’s sake.

You are just as desirous in changing her as she is changing you. You are as emotionally invested as she is in this crisis. The only difference is that she’s telling you her pain in the futile hope that you’d change. She doesn’t want to see you in hell she believes you are heading into. You are simply bitching about your mother behind her back, blaming her for your pain and looking for support from the enablers here.

You are such a wuss.