I can understand how he might have been a handful after seeing this.
I, for one, am glad the airline took action. And yes, I have asked someone to shut up on a plane. The flight attendant backed me up as well.
Because babies behave the same way all the time unless they’re sleeping right?
Click Spit’s link. Don’t click the ‘slide show’ with the biased captions. Click the link to the right and watch the full clip (its about 3-4 minutes), but do it before you read the article. Then go back and read the article.
Its the best way I know to show you what a total hack-job that article is.
Count Blucher, for those of us Luddites on dial-up, could you please summarize what you see in the video?
(I’ll sit through a video load for something important, like, say, Duck Amuck, but this just isn’t that important to me.)
I never implied that they did. I said I can understand how the kid might have been a handful.
I’m also not sure how this is a “hack” job. Every point made in the article is what happened on the video. 
If I’d been on the flight, I might have been thrown off too. For laughing.
“Those of you seated in the emergency exit rows may need to assist the crew in the event of an evacuation.”
“Bye-bye plane!”
“Your seat cushion can be used as a floatation device.”
“Bye-bye plane!”
“When the oxygen mask drops, place it over your nose and mouth like this.”
“Bye-bye plane!”
I don’t understand why the adult’s behaviour is acceptable, but the child’s isn’t. I’ve seen plenty of people carry on loud conversations on planes. When did an airplane because a place you’re supposed to not talk?
Bingo. We have a winner. If that was actually said, the prick should be fired, with many apologies and a nice free ticket for the mom.
I didn’t say the adult’s behavior was acceptable, did I? In fact I think I’ve said that the kid would get more “passes” than an adult would. Kids make noise. Yes I wish their parents would make them be quiet, but if they’re having their conversation with Mom, I really can’t complain, can I? It’s not that they’re kids; it’s that the tone and timbre of singsongy baby-talk is annoying. Of course that’s my own problem, not the kid’s.
Toddler babbling incoherently, loudly, for many minutes = not acceptable
Adult doing the same = not acceptable
Toddler repeating the same phrase over and over = annoying but grudgingly acceptable
Adult doing the same = most likely not acceptable, or at least would garner a polite “Um, could I ask you to please stop saying ‘Fee Fi Fo Fum’ over and over? Thank you, I really appreciate it.” Nobody should be told to “shut up” or to “shut that kid up.” I might think it, but I’d not say it to someone.
Toddler having a conversation with his mother at a normal volume = acceptable (even given that it might be somewhat annoying)
Adult having a conversation at a normal volume = acceptable
Anyone having a conversation at an overly loud volume = not acceptable
Toddler talking to himself = acceptable (although annoying)
Adult talking to himself or talking on a cell phone = acceptable (although weird and possibly annoying, but tough for me)
Baby screaming/crying = acceptable (although annoying)
Toddler screaming/crying and mother doing absolutely nothing = not acceptable
Adult screaming/crying = not acceptable
To clarify, if the story as told by that passenger is correct, I am totally on her side. The flight attendant was in the wrong. If the kid was seriously DISRUPTING the safety talk, okay, ask her politely and humorously if she can just get him to stop for a sec, but come on - was he screaming at the top of his lungs? Apparently not. The FA sounds like a bit of a nutter, based on what’s been said so far by the mother and the other passengers.
As for an airplane being a place to talk or not talk, of course it’s fine to talk. It’s not fine to do so in a manner that disturbs everyone around you, whether that’s because you spit repeatedly on your seatmate while you talk, or you can only talk at decibal 100, or you and your friend got split up so you have to talk across two other people in order to hear each other. None of that is acceptable. It’s rude and inconsiderate to the people around you. Loud people (LOUD, not merely talking) should be gently asked to please perhaps lower it.
If you were to see my 16 month old during a temper tantrum, you might have a hard time believing that she can be a delightful, yet very babbly, toddler most other times.
According to the article, the kid wasn’t having a tantrum. He was being a talkative toddler (but perhaps annoying).
What you witnessed in the GMA interview may not be indicative of that child’s usual behavior, nor the behavior he may have exhibited on the plane.
I don’t think you could swing a dead cat and not hit a toddler who has tantrums at times.
IANAL either, but isn’t most of air travel is governed by federal laws? ala, “It is a federal offense to disable the smoke detector…”.
Anyhow, I generally take the pro-quiet side of these debates, but I can’t imagine what extenuating circumstances could possibly justify the flight attendent’s behaviour (if story checks out, that is). My guess is that the flight attendent was strung out by a 10 hour delay, I’m sure it was stressful for her as well. But unlike passengers and babies, flight attendents don’t have the luxury of getting cranky.
Its too bad, my impression was that Jet Blue had wonderful customer service, and I’ve always enjoyed flying with them.
Once again- I never said he acts like that all of the time. I said (once more):
For all we know, that was his best behaviour! (The pendulum does swing both ways) I thought the video was humourous, ironic, and something MPSIMS.
There is something else I should add (which influences my view on this subject):
I was flying (somewhere) back in February. Mom and child get on plane a row away from me. The child was fine…until it came time to sit down and buckle his seatbelt. At that point, he threw the mother of all temper-tantrums. I was actually quite impressed with his performance, as I doubt I could have screamed as loud and as long as he did. FA’s tried talking to him. I gave him my Nintendo DS. People handed over their iPods. The Pilot came out and gave him a stern lecture.
The kid would not sit down. The plane cannot leave until everyone is seated, so we were stuck, and Mom was a bit of a lightweight. (I’m guessing it was a pretty embarrassing moment for her) Finally after 30 mins, they kicked Mom and child off the plane. Consequently, we missed our departure time, and had to wait an hour on the tarmac before taking off. Now there were a couple of hundred pissed off passengers, because we all missed our connections.
So from that experience (which I realize is much worse than “bye-bye plane”) I came away with the opinion that the airline should not (in good business practice) inconvenience 200 people because one child is keeping the safety briefing from commencing, and us getting in the air.
I’d agree that a baby should not delay a flight, in your case I think they waited 28 minutes too long. But in this case the kid wasn’t actually holding up the airplane, at least as far as I can tell. Its just that I have never heard of a flight attendent not being able to complete the safety demo because of a loud child. It’s piped over the speakers, after all.
(The article should be subtitled: "Fact-checkers get Fridays off at ‘Action News Atlanta’ " :rolleyes: )
Article Title: “Mom Booted From Plane Goes National; Kid Kicks, Whines At Interview”
Actually: He fussed a little at the interview & wanted down off his mothers lap. It’s a 5 full minute interview with 10 seconds of crying that was loud enough to be disruptive. And I didn’t see him kick once.
Article: “The Gwinnett County mother kicked off an airplane with her 19-month old son tried to tell her side of the story Friday morning, but her son’s crying and whining drowned out the interview.”
Actually: This is a total distortion. Interview: 5 minutes. Loud crying: 10 seconds.
The mother was sitting, son in lap, while Diane Sawyer asked questions. The son wanted down (possibly to get to a ball held off camera). He wiggled & squirmed like a toddler who didn’t want to be held. The mother seemed to insist he be held and she’d stop answering Diane’s questions to reposition her hold/grip on him. Later, when she let him down he was fine and happy. He did climb up on what he no doubt saw as a small play table, and at that point his mother picked him up and held him again. It is only at this point, more than half way through the interview that he cries loud enough to be any sort of distraction (10 seconds max), and Chris carried him off the set 15 seconds later. The above implies he drowned out the whole interview.
(hack-job Strike One)
Article: “Garren Penland, 19-months old, got so unruly during his mom’s chat with ‘Good Morning America’ anchor Diane Sawyer, co-anchor Chris Cuomo had to take the toddler off the set.”
Actually: He acted like a normal toddler who was bored & didn’t want to be there. Yes, Chris did come on, play with him, which made the toddler smile & giggle. The Toddler even said “Thank You!” when Chris gave him the ball he wanted. Eventually, Chris did take the toddler off the set, but this article uses ‘unruly’ in a manner that I haven’t seen in print since Googling ‘Russell Crowe’ and ‘cellphone’ together. Note: this was broadcast live, not prerecorded and shown in segments.
Article: “While Kate Penland explained her child was well-behaved on the Continental Express flight, little Garren kicked, wiggled and squirmed out of his mother’s arms.”
Actually: He never kicked, but his mother straightened the cuff on his pant-leg once, which extended his leg to look like a kick. He wiggled enough that eventually she put him down (when Chris was next to her), where he played with what was on the table in front of him. He never escaped from her arms like the ‘Action News Atlanta’ claims (hack-job Strike Two) . Further, none of this is indicative of how he acted onboard that flight.
Article: “At one point he climbed up on a coffee table and rifled through Sawyer’s scripts.”
Actually: This quote is technically factually correct. He leaned over onto the table and tried to reach things on it out of his reach. He did touch Diane’s notes, which got Diane’s attention quickly, prompting her to give him the Space Shuttle toy. Later, he got cranky and he did climb up on his knees on the coffee table to explore what was on it. His mother then took him back up into her arms to confine him, which made him very cranky. Still, he calmed down considerably once Chris picked him up. Also, not a sound was heard from him once he was off camera.
Article: “When Sawyer handed him a model Space Shuttle to distract him, Garren rolled it off the table and onto the floor.”
Actually: This quote is also technically factually correct. What they leave out was that this Space Shuttle was one of those ones with the wheels on the bottom like the ones they sell by the cash register at car-washes. He played with it for a good 10 seconds as I’ve seen boys play with toys…before he pushed it. It rolled really well. It rolled right off the table in fact. (Score one for TOMY)
Look, the bottom line is, this was just a cranky child in unfamiliar surroundings, possibly in need of a nap. Maybe he was the same way on the plane, maybe not. I do know that handling cranky toddlers requires more than a snarky entitled attitude or parenting skills poured from a bottle, which is what other passengers (not the mother) on the plane confirmed was the approach of the FA.
It’s called duct tape, I done told ya once already.*
- And I still don’t think they should have been given the boot. I’ve had to endure a baby (toddler?) screaming at full throttle for most of a flight directly behind me **and it never occured to me to turn the plane around. Just get through the torture ASAP and get on with life. The little old lady next to me wasn’t as charitable, she was really on the parent’s case about it. I was just tired and wanted to get home.
**ETA proximity of screaming baby (toddler?).
if there are no more facts than those in the article, then a firing is due.
I have to correct myself, this wasn’t JetBlue, it was Express Jet Airlines, and this article seems to indicate that this was a Continental Express flight. Figures.
Everyone, my apologies for the incorrect statement.
I just can’t shake the feeling that you’re pulling our legs here. So babbling is unacceptable, but repetition of a phrase is acceptable. Why? A child talking at normal volume is also acceptable, but annoying; an adult talking at normal volume, however, is magically NOT annoying. Why?
I mean, if people are yelling, or being loud and such, that’s one thing. If they’re talking at a normal volume, the polite thing to do is to mind your own business and not eavesdrop.
That’s fair, because I can’t get over the feeling that you feel personally insulted because I don’t want to listen to people in general and what are, to me, “annoying” children and/or adults on a plane. Which makes about as much sense as my posting several times on this subject just to “pull someone’s leg.” That’s really not my style. I guess we’re both being unrealistically paranoid. Right?
Would it make you happy if I said that adults talking while I wish it were silent are also annoying? Or that adults with a high-pitched lispy voice who mispronounce many words and talk in endless run-on sentences, much how very young children talk, are also annoying? Okay, you got it. I think you’re perceiving the word “acceptable” to mean “enjoyable” or at least “perfectly fine.” Think of it more like “willing to put up with without saying anything about it.” I also actually said “toddler,” not “child”; I cannot be the first person to hear a difference between a 2-year-old’s “conversation” with his mother and an 8-year-old’s or a 5-year-old’s or a 14-year-old’s. The baby-talky-voice and near-gibberish bug me, okay? But it’s the way kids talk so I’ll have to live with it. If you can’t hear a difference, that’s fine; but I do.
I cannot possibly list every instance of every permutation of the variations of what a little kid might be saying/babbling/repeating and what an adult would, so in general I think that if an adult and a toddler are doing the exact same thing on a plane, the toddler gets a lot more allowances than the adult. Because he’s a kid. You are free to perceive them as exactly the same and treat them exactly the same in your mind and not understand why someone else might feel differently. But please get this idea of some agenda I might have out of it.
Have any one you seen the commercial(I don’t know the airline) with a business woman sitting between two drunken frat guys? They’re as obnoxious as holy hell, screaming things like : “Haaaaaahoooooo yeah baby, that chick was hot”. Woooooooooo yeah, we gots to get some of that". “Yeah, we going on a safari now babayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!”
None of that was verbatim, because the commercial causes me to change the channel straightaway, but that’s not the point. If I had choice between these fuckers and a little toddler babbling well, toddie wins every time. Seriously. People, get a grip,(should be grown up)adults can be way more annoying than a small child. “Bye bye plane” over and over from a baby is not annoying to me. Shit about your dating life (or lack of it) loudly, is quite ridiculous and you need to shut up.