I'll keep my Trump-voting cousin, if you don't mind

[DavidNRockies]

And maybe this would be a good time to mention how frightfully difficult it is said to be to get people out of a cult.

ETA:

How to get someone out of a cult – and what happens afterwards

[BigT]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

@BigT

Don’t be upset for them being mad at you for not cutting them off, either. Why wouldn’t they be? ⁢

Because they would know that maintaining those ties as a way to move things forward is the more difficult decision, and because it’s the choice that makes a bigger difference in the movement?

Pretty much everyone I know who is in the activist circles has decided that “reaching across the aisle” was the wrong choice. That they’ve tried that and it failed as a macro strategy. ⁢

I know plenty of activists who have decided that, but very few that actually made a concerted effort to use personal ties to persuade others to change their minds and who decided it had failed. Many activists have confused their very necessary self-care for an act of activism. ⁢

This is utter bullshit. It is much, much easier to maintain the status quo, to not cut anyone off, and to just find ways to ignore the issue. Sure, you can claim you’re maintaining ties to try and convince them, but how many actually do that?

Cutting people off is much harder than keeping them in your life. Especially if you’re not the demographic being affected. It’s so, so easy to just say “that’s uncle Frank” than to set and enact your own boundaries.

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Pretty much everyone I know who is in the activist circles has decided that “reaching across the aisle” was the wrong choice. That they’ve tried that and it failed as a macro strategy. ⁢

I know plenty of activists who have decided that, but very few that actually made a concerted effort to use personal ties to persuade others to change their minds and who decided it had failed. Many activists have confused their very necessary self-care for an act of activism. ⁢

The activists are the experts. They have the actual information and experience. You are in no position whatsoever to be sitting their judging them, assuming that they are confused or haven’t done what they’ve said they’ve done.

I cited activists because they are the experts. Because that’s as far as we can go. I may seem conceited at times, but I’m always trying to be an ally. And allyship 101 is that we echo.

So far, my anger on this board after checking back in has both been from people who aren’t doing that—who come across to me as people who think they know better than the experts.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@BigT

This is utter bullshit. It is much, much easier to maintain the status quo, to not cut anyone off, and to just find ways to ignore the issue. Sure, you can claim you’re maintaining ties to try and convince them, but how many actually do that?

The ones that don’t aren’t the ones I’m talking about.

@BigT

The activists are the experts. They have the actual information and experience. You are in no position whatsoever to be sitting their judging them

Kid, I was working with Act Up! before you were born. Step off.

[BigT]

@Jophiel

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I’ve read this three times and have no idea what you’re getting at here. ⁢

Apparently if something isn’t going to single-handedly change the election, it’s not worth doing.

This is yet more snarky dismissiveness of the actual arguments being made, and it is exactly what makes me think people don’t actually care.

You can’t rebut argument with snark. Ever.

[Jophiel]

@BigT

it is exactly what makes me think people don’t actually care.

Well, my primary reason for posting here was to support CairoCarol in her decision, not to convince you (or whoever) that they’re correct. So I’m not terribly worried if you think my “snark” is a winning debate tactic or not because I’m not terribly concerned with debating you.

[BigT]

@Jophiel

@BigT

it is exactly what makes me think people don’t actually care. ⁢

Well, my primary reason for posting here was to support CairoCarol in her decision, not to convince you (or whoever) that they’re correct. So I’m not terribly worried if you think my “snark” is a winning debate tactic or not because I’m not terribly concerned with debating you. ⁢

Then why not stick to that topic?

If you start saying stupid things afterwards, it actually hurts the perception of your previous arguments.

(Note, if Carol is trying to convince their cousin, then I’m on her side. I only object if she’s given up on convincing him, which is how I read the OP.)

[We_re_wolves_not_werewolves]

@Czarcasm

And that more than makes up for supporting a habitually lying rapist, right?

You are such a fucking prick sometimes. Your discussion board moral absolutism is so tedious.

[Jophiel]

@BigT

Then why not stick to that topic?

Because this is The Pit and I feel free to converse without sweating passing Debate Club in the process.

@BigT

If you start saying stupid things afterwards, it actually hurts the perception of your previous arguments.

Damn, I bet I was THIS CLOSE to convincing you, too.

Your arguments also strike me as unpersuasive but I don’t assume that’s meaningful to you. I hope it’s not, anyway. Letting people you barely know on the internet be the arbiter of such things is a terrible way to live.

[BigT]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

@BigT

This is utter bullshit. It is much, much easier to maintain the status quo, to not cut anyone off, and to just find ways to ignore the issue. Sure, you can claim you’re maintaining ties to try and convince them, but how many actually do that? ⁢

The ones that don’t aren’t the ones I’m talking about.

@BigT

The activists are the experts. They have the actual information and experience. You are in no position whatsoever to be sitting their judging them ⁢

Kid, I was working with Act Up! before you were born. Step off. ⁢

Maybe you did then. I don’t know. But I also know how language works. If I’m bringing up activists who you disagree with, and you consider yourself one, you would cite yourself.

So, right now, you don’t consider yourself an activist, and thus it is not your job to judge them.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@BigT

But I also know how language works.

Respectfully, no you don’t. That’s an insane gotcha. You gotta step off, T, you’re trying to win an argument through some ridiculous parsing that makes no sense.

[Czarcasm]

There’s the kindness and gentleness served on a silver platter that Republicans demand from the other side.

[Baker]

@DavidNRockies

I’m disabled and seriously (well, terminally) ill.

Would you mind if I sent you a PM?

[Knowed_Out]

Actually, I agree with him. You are a dismissive prick sometimes.

[Blalron]

Shunning is a powerful tool to use against people, and it may be useful in some cases. But when half the population holds the undesirable belief, it’s hard to see how it can be an effective tactic.

[We_re_wolves_not_werewolves]

@Czarcasm

There’s the kindness and gentleness served on a silver platter that Republicans demand from the other side.

I’m some sort of hypocrite for rudely calling out your rude comment? ok…

[Beckdawrek]

I’m personally not gonna shun, hate or even try to argue with more than half of Americans.

It totally ridiculous to think you can.

We are all American. We’re now in the soup together.
The Democrats lost. We have to accept it. A bitter pill, I know.
Get over it, start working on 2028.

If you’re fighting one individual for their choice to accept their Trump voting cousin or not, you’re delusional thinking that’s gonna do a damn thing to remove the monster from office.

It shouldn’t the side of right who starts a civil war. Don’t fire on Sumpter. It serves no one.

[raspberry_hunter]

Thanks for this post (and followups), @CairoCarol .

I know a fair number of people who voted for Trump, some of whom I love, and these kinds of things have been on my mind a lot lately.

[asterion]

There are some people who voted for Trump I don’t want to spend time with. There are some people who voted for Harris that I don’t want to spend time with. In both cases it’s because they’re judgemental assholes with nothing in their lives but politics and nothing to talk about but whatever the topic of the day was on their media of choice.

[Cheesesteak]

@We_re_wolves_not_werewolves

I’m some sort of hypocrite for rudely calling out your rude comment?

We really should be less rude to the people who want a rapist to be our next President. If we can’t be civil to people who want a President that… checks notes… muses about how easy it would be to “handle” far left American citizens (aka. The Enemy Within) with the military, then all is lost.

They’re nice, kind, people, really. I mean, if my family is dragged to a detention camp by Trump’s brownshirts, they’ll do the right thing and act shocked and surprised at this atrocity they had no idea Trump wanted to do. Sure, he said he wanted to do it, but you can’t blame them for ignoring the things he says.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Cheesesteak

We really should be less rude to the people who want a rapist to be our next President. If we can’t be civil to people who want a President that… checks notes… muses about how easy it would be to “handle” far left American citizens (aka. The Enemy Within) with the military, then all is lost.

I wanna be really clear. Someone that voted for a “fascist to the core” is not someone I have an easy time respecting. They’re not necessarily someone I’m gonna ever respect. If I maintain ties with them, it’s not for their sake, and it’s not for my sake. It’s for the sake of the fascist’s victims.

If I’ve got the wherewithal to maintain those ties, and use those ties to weaken their support for Trump, that’s a good thing to do. The ultimate goal is to get that idiot to stop VOTING FOR A FUCKING FASCIST, and sometimes maintaining a relationship is a way to achieve that goal.