Yeah, I think something can be a blessing without bringing God into it. People can bless each other, and/or can think that it’s a blessing to be able to be outside on a nice day, or something of that sort, even if none of them believe in God.
– hmmm. When I look that up most definitions seem to disagree with me; but at least one gives my sort of meaning in two of their five definitions, and possibly in a third (though they proceed to mention God in their example for the third.)
To make happy or prosperous; gladden.
He blessed us with his leadership.
Webster’s New World
To favor or endow (with)
To be blessed with eloquence.
Webster’s New World
To praise or glorify.
Yes. And in both cases there are significant numbers of people who think that group is much larger than it is; and who are very likely to object if their intended attentions are rejected.
I wouldn’t mind if a close friend asked me “can I pray for you”? I might even say yes. But from a casual acquaintance who I don’t feel comfortable discussing religious beliefs with, or from someone I know well enough to know that they tend to be religiously overbearing – that’s a different matter. And you’ll note that I’m positing the close friend would ask, not announce.
By saying “I don’t collect stamps.” Possibly, if applicable, in the form of “thanks, but I don’t collect stamps.”
A statement that is unlikely to get you any significant pushback, and would not be considered rude.
So, if someone says, “I’ll pray for you.” and you respond with “Thanks, but I don’t believe in a god.” you don’t think that would get any pushback or considered rude?
I can only assume that you weren’t aware that I was using the well known and worn analogy of stamp collectors vs non-stamp collectors to theists vs non-theists?
Ah, that makes more sense then. It is used around here fairly often, and it’s not like it’s unique to SDMB. The point is mostly that atheists have as much in common as people who don’t collect stamps.
The point made here is that, in the analogy, most people tend to be stamp collectors, and make lots of references about collecting stamps, and expect you to be collecting stamps as well. So, my question within that analogy is how to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps.
As you then pointed out, there is no way to politely inform someone that I don’t collect stamps, especially if they are currently offering me stamps in an attempt to console me for my loss or grief.
Any mention that I don’t collect stamps in that situation would get pushback and considered rude. Just as any mention that I don’t believe in a god is would be.
And you are right, that if I am the one suffering a loss, I am the one hurting, and if someone tries to make themselves feel better by offering me literally the least they possibly can by offering prayer, if I were to tell them that it doesn’t comfort me because I don’t believe in a god, then I am the one that will get pushback and be considered to be rude.
You want to pray for someone, by my guest. But if you want to let them know that you are praying for them, make sure it’s something that they will actually appreciated before doing so. Otherwise, you may be making someone who is coping with grief uncomfortable, and if you meant your words to have comfort, then you should be aware that they may be doing the exact opposite, and they can’t even tell you so, without you thinking them to be rude.
OK. But outside of that analogy, of course one can politely inform others that one doesn’t collect stamps: so that’s what I actually said. So referring to the analogy might have been a good idea.
The whole point of the analogy in the first place is exactly that, in this world, one can politely say to the avid stamp collector that one doesn’t collect stamps.
But thank you for the explanation, if not for the part in which you explain that I said something that I didn’t say. I understand that you didn’t mean it that way; but it’s sure going to look like that to any careless reader.
When my husband died (an energetic atheist, he was), this situation came up a few times. My standard response was, “That’s not meaningful to me, but I appreciate your kind words. I understand they are well intended.”
Apologies, I thought it was around enough that anyone discussing these sorts of topics would be aware. I certainly expected anyone that responded to my use of the analogy would be.
Right, and the point of the analog is also to point out that one cannot politely say to the theist that they don’t believe in a god.
They should be treated the same, but they are not.
Yeah, I’m still mixing in the analogy, specifically to show that you should be able to say the same thing to the person who offers to show you their stamp collection to make you feel better about a loss as you can say to someone who offers to demonstrate their religion to make you feel better about a loss.
But you can’t, not without being considered rude.
Let’s put it this way, if the OP had talked about how HR was asking employees to stop offering to show off their stamp collections to those in grief, then most people would have wondered why anyone would even do something like that.
Can you explain why stamp collecting is treated differently than religion?
Of course, like religion, if we share stamp collecting as a hobby, then maybe it would make me feel better to check out your collection. But why would someone assume that it would if they didn’t already know?
They don’t need to. They have 95 percent of the social “pie”…and are completely dumbfounded as to why we we won’t meet them halfway on that meager 5 percent we are trying to hang on to. We have threads on the subject of people expecting atheists to be “good” and stay silent or even pretend to participate when people publicly practice their religion. It was in one of those threads that someone used the term “militant atheists” to describe those that won’t roll over and play dead.
NOT disagreeing with you, but isn’t the whole point of the PC “don’t offend folks” that the majority doesn’t get to define what’s acceptable? Otherwise someone should be fine making racist comments, no?
Indeed the ability to feel any and all perceived micro aggressions must be exhausting to the extreme.
I am unchurched yet I have no problem in my conservative workplace of saying or writing in a card in complete sincerity the expression of we’ll be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers when I have no intention of whispering in the big guys ear about it later. It’s just easier and gets that sensitive chore off my plate.
Injury to insult! did I say you shouldn’t express your feelings? Express away! I can still imagine how exhausting it is to burden oneself with feeling perceived slights from something basically harmless as an offer of thoughts and prayers or god bless you.
Complete sincerity in giving “thoughts and prayers” even though you say you are an atheist? One of us is a little confused as to the definition of “sincerity”, I think.
Though I will admit it’s not something that I’d think that everyone knows, but it is something that I’d think that those generally participating in discussions about the rights of religion in a secular society would have come across.