I'm burned out and I haven't even started yet!

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

It’s been a while since I started one of these threads, and I was reluctant to do this one. My problems seem so very insignificant compared those described in many of the posts lately. But I’m at the end of my rope, and in need of a fresh perspective. I hope you’ll forgive the somewhat rambling nature of this post.

So, I just successfully defended my dissertation, and I’m now Dr. Statsman (okay, not quite until I’m hooded, but…). I’ve been looking for jobs since December of 2010, and so far, I have no prospects. I’ve been turned down by two of the places I’ve applied to, one of which was a small community college. That kind of stung–even community colleges don’t want me! Anyway, I’ve been applying for whatever jobs I can find through higheredjobs.com. I’m looking at small teaching universities, as the thought of living under the publish-or-perish tenure gun makes me sick, literally (I’ve vomited more in the last year than I ever have in my life).

But here’s the thing: Even if I get a job, I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I’m so completely burned out of everything that all I want to do is sleep and play video games all day. Right now, the thought of starting a career doing anything other than those two things makes me want to die. I’ve even started researching suicide methods. It’s to the point that I’d almost rather die when I look at the fact that I’ll likely have to work for the next 60 years (I’m 28). I’ve struggled with suicidal-ideation-level depression for the last year and a half and have been seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist. But both of them were thinking that once my dissertation was defended, the clouds would part and I’d start being hopeful again. For about a day after the defense, I was okay. Now, I’m feeling just as bad or worse.

I feel tremendously guilty because I know that everyone has to work; that’s just the price of living. Sure, not everyone likes their job, but they find something to get them through each day. The only thing that’s getting me through each day is actually laziness, fear, and guilt: the suicide method I would employ requires a bit of effort and expense. Also, I’m still a little afraid of death. And if I did off myself, I know that my parents would be devastated, so guilt keeps me going.

I’ve been told a few times in threads like these that I’m hypersensitive, spoiled, and weak, and that I need to “man up.” I agree with the first part 100%. I am weak, but I don’t know what to do about it. I thought about joining the military, but that makes suicide look even more attractive. The armed forces would be wasted on me because I would agree with the bootcamp instructors that I was worthless, no good, weak, and a mama’s boy. Every insult they’d throw at me I would agree with.

A few months ago, the psychiatrist mentioned a 10-day in-patient hospitalization. I thought about that a lot. What scares me is that I *really want hospitalization. *I want to be poked and prodded and drugged up. I think once I were hospitalized, I would do whatever it took to stay hospitalized. After all, I have nothing to come back to–no kids, no wife. I do have a girlfriend, but she lives two hours away (although I’ve begged her to come live with me for years–she won’t).

The bottom line is that the prospect of having to work for another 5-6 months, nevermind 50-60 years, makes suicide sound far better. However, I’m thinking that what I’m feeling now might be temporary. I have a small sliver of hope that I might get one of the jobs I applied for and everything will sort itself out.

Has anyone else gone through this? How did you make it out?

2

Congratulations! I remember your threads from a while back where you were worried about your thesis. A Ph.D is a major accomplishment, and it’s perfectly normal to feel burned out. It’s more accomplishment than most people will manage in their entire life. I wouldn’t say by any means that you “haven’t started yet”.

Being turned down for two jobs means nothing. You shouldn’t take it personally. Keep looking. And have you considered looking for jobs in another field? You are not limited to statistics simply because you have a statistics Ph.D. If the thought of working in the field for the rest of your career is so nauseating, then don’t. Find something else.

Lots of people take a year off after finishing their studies. If your situation is this dire, I would think your parents would understand that you need to take a year to relax, recover, regroup, and decide what you need to do with the rest of your life.

More than anything, it sounds like you are clinically depressed, and whatever your doctors have been trying for the past 18 months is not working. Have you told your psychiatrist everything you have posted here? Are you on any medication? Have you thought about finding another psychiatrist?

3

I’d recommend you try your psychiatrist’s advice. It sounds like you have real problems that need treatment and a hospital is where you should go. A hospital is going to be aware that some patients will embrace hospitialization and they’ll be watching to make sure you only stay as long as you legitimately need to.

4

Absolute, I was taking Paxil for a long while (1997 to about 2009). Then I went on Lexapro for awhile before switching to mirtazapine. I’ve been on that one since March 2010. The psychiatrist I see now works in a teaching hospital, so I actually see him and his attending. I was seeing another psychiatrist before that, but he was so cold and indifferent that I couldn’t stay with him.

**Little Nemo, **I might try the hospitalization thing then. Do you have experience working in these hospitals, or know someone who has worked there? If I were to come out and say to the psychiatrist, “I’m going to do whatever it takes to stay here,” they’d be fine with that?

5

While your PhD is a great accomplishment you are entering the job market at a time of high unemployment. In my area I see former directors taking supervisor jobs. I see professional people all the time applying for hourly jobs.

You don’t need to “man up” to acknowledge times are tough and work through it. If you need a psychiatrist to keep from offing yourself or talk you into seeking gainful employment then do it.

I’ve had to work for myself for quite some time because of the economy and I have to tell you that your need for a year of playing computer games has fallen on deaf ears. If I can quote the Drew Carey show: “Oh, you hate your job? Why didn’t you say so? There’s a support group for that. It’s called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.”

6

Congratulations on defending your dissertation, and getting through that part.

You don’t need to man up, you’re not being oversensitive and whiny. You sound like you’re clinically depresed. Suicidal ideation is a problem, actively researching suicide methods means you need help NOW. Not tomorrow, not the day after. TODAY. YESTERDAY.

Wanting to sleep all day is one of the symptoms I get when my depression flares up. I’ll get up in the morning, go back to bed at lunchtime, sleep until dinnertime, get up for a couple more hours then go back to bed and repeat the cycle all over again.

If your doctors are suggesting inpatient treatment at a hospital, I would suggest seriously considering it. Like Nemo says, the doctors will be aware you might be trying to use hospitalisation as a way to avoid your issues, and will work to get you feeling healthy enough to get up and get out again.

The way you’re feeling is not normal, but it is something that can be treated.

7

Yes, I’m well aware that its normal for people to hate their jobs (I thought I’d made that point earlier). But, I’m willing to bet you and most other people aren’t weighing your options for suicide every night. There is something that’s keeping you going.

8

Statsman, for what it’s worth I don’t think you’re oversensitive, spoiled, whiny, or whatever.

I think you’re very ill and the time to do something is NOW, when you’re still clearheaded enough to know these thoughts you’re having are unhealthy.

If after using those meds and seeing your therapist for this long you are this depressed, that means what you’re doing isn’t working. If you opt for the inpatient stay the doctors will be able to try out new meds and different therapy while being able to monitor you 24/7.

Staying there forever, however, won’t be an option. First of all, it’d cost a shitload of money and I’m assuming you don’t have health insurance (even with it there’s a limit of what they’ll pay for) and if I can play armchair shrink here for a second, it sounds like another manifestation of the suicidal thoughts: you want to vanish from sight and spend the rest of your life in a doped-up haze and not have to face the world.

If defending your thesis, the culmination of years of work and research and banging your head on the desk on a subject that clearly interests you enough to put that much effort into it, didn’t “part the clouds” there is no way that landing a job is going to be the panacea that will turn you into Dr. Happy Stats.

9

See your psychiatrist NOW and take his/her advice. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

You seem to be waffling about the possibility of hospitalization. Don’t. Someone who needed kidney dialysis wouldn’t be waffling about having to go in to the hospital for frequent dialysis. Someone who has just had a massive allergic reaction would not waffle about having to go to the emergency room for steroids.

There is nothing wrong with seeking mental health treatment. You may need it just to work - I do. If it is just burnout, your psychiatrist will help figure that out. If it is something that needs medical intervention, your psychiatrist will make sure you get it. Either way, you will get help.

10

I’ve worked on psych units. I do agree that if your doc thinks you would benefit from hospitalization you should definitely think about going there for a bit. However, nowadays it is very rare that people stay in psych hospitals more than maybe a week or so, so don’t expect to stay there long-term. The people who do end up institutionalized long term are typically very low-functioning, severely psychotic people (and by definition being able to get a PhD puts you in a very high functioning category!)
Still, I would encourage you to be honest with the doctors that you feel like you want to stay in the hospital so that you can talk to them about how to deal with returning to normal life. That is definitely an issue they deal with often. Some people hate being in a psych hospital but many others actually do like it there and try to stay there as long as possible even when they don’t need it.

I would also suggest that you make a point of trying to get involved in physical activities. Exercise is in itself an antidepressant!
Even if you have to start with a walk around the block, at least start to get out there.
I know that when I stay home and allow myself to be lazy that I tend to feel more depressed than when I get out in the sunshine for a walk.

Also think about trying to get involved in some sort of charity that you find meaningful. Haivng a significant other or kids is not the only way to give life meaning, and many of the people who have contributed the most to this world don’t have spouses or kids. Having a connection to others and feeling like you are making an important contribution to others is what keeps a lot of us from wanting to commit suicide, and giving back to your community as a volunteer is one way to get those feelings.

I mention these two things particularly because exercise and charitable activity are things that are often put on the back burner when people are in the midst of the long and timeconsuming journey of higher education, but I do think they are very important to mental health.

11

Your bet with me wouldn’t go well. I was laid off over 3 years ago. In between doing jobs you would never consider doing. I’ve had to rebuild my chimney, replace the drain lines in my house, replace all of the water lines in the first 2 floors and a host of other fun projects. As such I’m still in the school of hard knocks because most of this stuff I’ve had to repair is learn-as-you-go. These are the things I’m doing between jobs that I truly hate because of the extreme physical nature of them. I’ve sold some of my possessions as well as some retirement funds. Oh, and throw in a kidney stone just because I wasn’t in enough pain doing the jobs I’ve been doing. My life could be a LOT worse considering I still have a roof over my head and decent health for my age. This economy has destroyed millions of families financially. Total financial destruction.

But this isn’t a contest to see whose life sucks more. As I said before, if you need a psychiatrist to keep from killing yourself then do it. That’s not even a question for discussion. But if you think you dread working more than me, not a chance in hell.

On a different note, if all you can look forward to in life is playing computer games then you have other issues. They produce nothing. At best you work your ass off for a small bit of satisfaction that has no dollar value. Learning to cook has value. Riding a bike has value. Repairing your house or car has value. These things make you a better person.

I’m not suggesting you stop gaming but if you can’t walk away with a bit of fun after an hour then this activity is bad for you. Add that to your list of things to work out with the psychiatrist. You’re train is sitting next to the track and you need help connecting the two.

Get thee to a professional and stop talking about it. You deserve the pleasure of hating your job like the rest of us.

12

Then quit submitting entries.

statsman, I’ll chime in with everyone else telling you to get psychiatric help ASAP. If you need it, you need it; and you definitely sound like someone who needs it right now. You don’t have to live your life this way. You can get help, and you can get better.

Take care of yourself, OK?

13

Congratulations!

Eh, from what I’ve seen of academic job searches, that’s not uncommon. There’s a huge, huge oversupply of job seekers in academia.

If you think about it, it kind of has to be that way. The number of universities isn’t increasing all that fast, so the supply of jobs is fairly static. Each professor trains several grad students (17, in one case I know of) during his or her career. That professor opens up one job opening when s/he retires. The number of job seekers is growing exponentially, the number of jobs is flat. I think Malthus wrote a paper about a situation like this.

Mr. Neville has recently participated in a couple of faculty searches from the other side (on the search committee), and he says it has been worse than normal the past couple of years. He’s glad he hasn’t been looking, in this climate. When the economy is bad, as it’s been for the past couple years, more people look for jobs in academia, but there aren’t more jobs available. They’ve gotten more applicants than normal in their recent faculty searches. He said they used to get about 90 applicants for one job, now it’s more like 150. He’s at a research university, but I doubt things are really all that different at a more teaching-focused institution.

In other words, there’s a problem here, but I don’t think it’s you or your skills.

14

I don’t have anything to add with respect to the psychiatric end of things. But I’ve got some suggestions on both the employment side, and the notion of working.

First, if you’ve got a doctorate in statistics, you’ve got a hell of a lot more options than academia. The Federal government has a number of statistical agencies: the Census Bureau, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the National Center for Health Statistics, etc. Speaking as one on the inside, our budgets have seen some hits in the past year, but we’re still hiring, though at somewhat reduced levels. That Ph.D. allows you to enter Federal employment at the GS-11 level, which in the DC area (where most of the jobs are) starts you at $62K/year. The DC area isn’t the cheapest place to live, but you can certainly live well as a single person on 62K here.

And unlike with academia, you don’t have to make a lifetime commitment. You don’t like working for one of those bureaus, you can take a job with another one, or with Westat or NORC, or even try academia again when the situation there improves.

And we get to work on some pretty interesting problems, at least IMHO. While I’d still rather not work than work, if the money were magically the same, I don’t dread going in to work. I like what I do, I’ve got colleagues who are good at what they do and enjoyable to work with, it’s a pretty good life.

15

I think he’s trying to commiserate. Sometimes knowing that you aren’t alone in how shitty you feel can make you feel better.

Normally I’m against hospitalization, as many places recommend it when it is unnecessary. But being suicidal is the exception. You don’t actually want to kill yourself. You want to not feel like you can’t handle life. You want to feel better, and these people may be able to help.

I have a friend who actually tried to kill herself recently. She went to the hospital, and, after she came back, she seemed like a new person. Or, really, the person she used to be. It was uncanny.

If it makes you anxious, get a second opinion (or third, fourth, etc.). Get info from your psych about other people who got better. Fight the urge to do nothing.

As hokey as it sounds, I care about you. Get well, my friend.

16

This is what I cam in to say. I have lots of statistician friends (better drinking buddies than molecular biologists!) and none of them are hurting for employment opportunities, in and out of academia.

Statistics is a skill that almost every technological and business field needs, and yet there is a dearth of people who have these in depth skills. If you look around a bit, opportunities will throw themselves at you.

Of course mental illness makes it harder for you to see them, or take advantage of them. Go get help first.

17

I’ve reread your OP now that I’m actually awake.

I agree with everyone else who says you should seriously consider hospitalization. I know what you are feeling - you want to go somewhere where you don’t have to worry about life. This sounds like the right thing to do. Don’t focus on whether you will stay too long - you’re going there because you want to feel better, and when you feel better, you won’t want to stay.

You have to put yourself first. Don’t worry about what effect this will have on anyone else. You need to find a way to control your depression before you start thinking about or doing anything else.

Once you have this under control, however long it takes, your future is bright. I’m sure you won’t believe this, but I’ll say it anyway. Your Ph.D. in statistics means you can write your own ticket in life. You do not have to limit yourself to jobs in academia, or even to jobs in statistics. You are obviously an intelligent and dedicated person - there’s no way you could get a Ph.D. in statistics while struggling with clinical depression if you weren’t. Don’t try to deny that or explain why it isn’t so. You are the kind of person who is all too rare today, and you will be able to find a well-paying job that you enjoy.

18

Thanks, everyone for the advice. I have a meeting with my therapist on Wednesday and I’m going to discuss the hospitalization thing again with her. Then with the psychiatrist (I think I have an appointment on the 27th–I’ll try to get in before).

I’ll also look into the government angle. One of my committee members suggested that, actually, after my defense.

One thing, though: Could the fact that I’m seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist (and may be hospitalized) actually work against me? I mean, most of these places make consenting to a background check a condition of the application. I know medical records are private, but,assuming I do the hospitalization thing, could an employer find that out in a background check?

19

You would have to disclose it in a background check that you’ve been treated, although I don’t recall if they specifically ask about hospitalization. Fear not, though, as treatment for depression is typically not disqualifying, as I understand it. Basically, what the feds will want to know is whether you have a mental condition that would interfere with your ability to keep information confidential, and they understand that depression does not do that. You may need to authorize one of your doctors to give them a statement to that effect.

It seems to me that a doctorate in statistics would also be valuable on Wall Street, and possibly with the big consulting firms.

20

For a job at a university, I would suspect not, universities generally have pretty strict anti-discrimination policies on this sort of thing. Anyone who’s been a college student can tell you, their university did not have policies against hiring or retaining crazy people, otherwise, some of the professors who were there wouldn’t have been :wink:

For a government job, I can tell you for a fact that seeing a psychiatrist does not disqualify you for a security clearance. I’m not sure about inpatient treatment, but from what I’ve heard, I don’t think it’s an automatic dealbreaker. Cite: ClearanceJobs on mental health and security clearances.

What is a dealbreaker in getting a clearance, from what I’ve heard, is lying. If you lie to the background investigators, they will find out, and it will not go well for you. It’s also best to be open about details of your personal life. Someone who is open with their family and friends about having been in a psychiatric hospital (or, as in a more common scenario, someone who’s openly gay) can’t be threatened with the release of that information. Blackmail is a classic spy technique, and government agencies that are concerned about spies would rather hire people who are harder to blackmail.

If a job application asks about psychiatric treatment or hospitalization, I’d tell the truth. But it’s not information I’d volunteer to a prospective employer unless specifically asked.