I'm not gawking at you because you're unattractive, I'm cruising you 'cause you ARE!

[Nichol_storm]

It’s bizarre, but I’ve gotten both the following reactions:

1. People telling me I’m the absolute pinnicle of feminine beauty and…
2. People telling me I’m the most hideous creature they’ve ever laid eyes on.

My reaction to both tends to be “Huh. Really?”

I chalk it up to personal preferences. If you happen to like tall gawky blondes, then I’m your greatest fantasy made reality. If not, then I’m the most unappealing woman imaginable. I try to accept both opinions, but I (and, I’m sure, probably everyone else here) secretly prefer the first reaction over the second.

.:Nichol:.

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by Guinastasia *
I’m way shy.
No, for reals. I swear. Ask iampunha.

I would never have guessed…

I even knew ahead of time you’d be nervous and tried to prep for it, but to no avail. Alas and such. Mebbe next time:)

Oh, Space Vampire: what’s my sexuality, eh? [sub]Good luck guessing THAT from this post…[/sub]

[anya_marie]

Originally from apotheosis It’s like I (and several others) have noted…once you get into the mindset that you’re better off going unnoticed, it’s difficult to break that cycle.

I am trying to do that now, and while some things are much easier that they used to be, there are lots of times when i won’t or cannot talk, and i still have my bangs coming down over one eye.

Currently I am trying to find out if blondes really do have more fun.

[ratty]

This is so sad, but I have the same problem. I simply cannot accept that anyone would ever find me attractive. Anytime anyone ever looks at me in public, I immediately assume they are staring out of amusement and disgust. I don’t even cruise other people: I’m too afraid they’ll catch me, and respond with a look or comment to put me in my place- how dare such a malformed beast cruise anyone else? I even have these terrible doubts that my b/f of several years is secretly not at all attracted to me, but is staying in the relationship for some unspecified nefarious purpose. In my saner moments, I know this is ridiculous. But I have had very low self-esteem since childhood, and it would seem that despite all attempts to remedy this, it has become a facet of my personality.

I have a theory, though- all of us with low self-esteem and shyness secretly love and crave attention. We just want to be absolutely, 100% sure that it is sincere. And nothing will ever be sufficient to convince us of that. So we’re stuck. Wanting and needing to be reinforced, but unable to accept that reinforcement. Unable to accept the very thing which would make us happier about ourselves.

And then there’s that nagging little voice in all of our heads, the one that says “Fuck your fascist beauty standards!” and tells us we shouldn’t, no, we don’t care what others say or think- we’re beautiful anyway. We’re liberated from the abitrary and insanely limiting constraints of culturally-mediated aesthetics, thank you very much.

But the other voice, the louder one, the one that’s been with us since the beginning, is back in our ears. The voice that tells us we’re only fooling ourselves, that we are ugly and pathetic and unloveable, and those staring eyes are mocking us, have always been mocking us, and they will never see in us the beauty we want them to. That voice, the one you can’t ignore. The truth is, it hurts everyone, very much, at some point in their lives, to not be “the pretty one”. And some of us have never been “the pretty one”, and even if we were, we’d never believe it.

So here’s what I suggest- if you cruise someone, and they won’t meet your eye, if you know it’s shyness or low self-esteem that’s preventing them from making contact, go over to them. Draw them out, make silly conversation. Like dealing with frightened animals, you must go slowly. Make no threatening moves. Don’t talk too loud. Do everything in your power to convince them that you mean them no harm.

[Eternal]

You people are sissies. Don’t ignore the cruiser because you are ugly, ignore them because people are always up to something. They are not to be trusted under any circumstances. I could be lying to you know, for instance, or by saying that I could be lying, I could be lulling you into a false sense of security.

BE SMART. BE SECLUDED.

[Space_Vampire]

*Originally posted by iampunha *
**

Oh, Space Vampire: what’s my sexuality, eh? [sub]Good luck guessing THAT from this post…[/sub] **

I didn’t base my statement about gay “cruising” on guesses about who was gay and who was straight. I happen to remember things, and in some cases it’s been pretty thoroughly hammered into my head.

But if memory serves, you’re gay or bi. Also built and aware of that fact.

[Hamish]

*Originally posted by Eternal *
You people are sissies.

Who told you?

::d&r::

[Esprix]

Space, you might actually try answering some previous questions put to you rather than dodging the points raised therein. Your choice, of course - perhaps you enjoy being seen as a flagrant jackass, I wouldn’t know…

Esprix

[Space_Vampire]

Yes, sometimes I do get a perverse thrill out of it. But, sorry, I didn’t realize we were engaged in some kind of serious debate. Skimming the thread again, I’m not sure what bombshell question you think I’m dodging; was it yours about how I could say who was gay and who was straight from the content of their posts in this thread? Hopefully it’s clear that, in most cases, I already knew.

[Esprix]

Well let’s try a few simple questions then:

[list=1][li]How, exactly, do the stories related in this thread by straight posters differ from those related by queer posters? No one else sees the difference but you.[/li]
[li]Please describe to me how I look at people that so unnerves you, as I thought I had fairly clearly described what was going on in the OP. (I might also note that I’m talking about cruising gay men, so I really don’t think you have anything to worry about. Please don’t cry.)[/li]
[li]How is it that heterosexuals look at each other that differs? I mean, don’t all straight men leer at women, wolf whistle and grab their crotches? That’s “typical,” isn’t it? (Gee, I’m sure glad I don’t have to deal with that!)[/list=1][/li]
We all await most anxiously.

Esprix

[yosemite]

*Originally posted by apotheosis *
It’s like I (and several others) have noted…once you get into the mindset that you’re better off going unnoticed, it’s difficult to break that cycle.

You can write that off as being a mark of craven, snivelling puppyhood, and you might even be right; but that doesn’t make it any simpler to just shrug off what, for lack of a better (e.g. less melodramatic) term, was a survival tactic.

True. So true.

I tried to explain this to a very attractive guy I know, and he could not comprehend it. Just because he doesn’t think I’m ugly doesn’t mean that others don’t. And just because I am an adult now doesn’t mean that I can so easily overcome the repeated conditioning of my childhood.

I look at myself now, and I don’t think I’m that hideous. And perhaps even “cute”, on a good day. But it doesn’t matter. Once you’ve been treated like crap enough, you develop that scar tissue, and you start to clam up. It really is a survival tactic—you just don’t want any more pain. Of course I miss out on a lot, but I also miss out on being treated like shit. And don’t tell me that people aren’t capable of being shitheads. Because we all know they are. If shitheads weren’t so commonplace, many of us wouldn’t have the hangups that we have.

[Space_Vampire]

1. I am not going to read the whole thread again as I need to get going here. However, I don’t see any talk from heterosexuals about “cruising” on subways and being followed into the bathroom (though I suppose the last is to be expected.) I don’t know, I may’ve jumped to conclusions, but I’m not going to read the whole thread to find all the differences that may or may not be there, at least not right now.

2. I do NOT like people staring at me, no matter what “vibe” they may be giving off. I think its presumptuous and rude that you should insist that everyone respond positively to this.

3. I have noticed myself being stared at in maybe-positive ways by women once or twice, and it bugged me, once so much that I stopped what I was doing and left. But SF-SM staring (which is what we’re talking about as the comment I made only relates to myself, and I’m obviously not going to be ogled by straight men) is not as common or accepted as some posts seem to imply that it is among gay men. If that’s a mistaken impression I apologize, but on the other hand maybe you and your gay comrades should consider the impressions you make since most straight people don’t know much more about gay dating than what they’re told.

[Jules4love]

I know how it feels to be hurt…but you don’t get hurt just from 1 smile - if anything, the smile gets passed on to others…

now once a relationship and/or friendship and time goes on - yes people get hurt. we have all had our share of pain I am sure of that.

it is hard to let my guard down as well. but the conversation here is about cruisin’ and people just looking around - they catch your eye you catch theirs - its a simple smile and if it isn’t, then do what you need to so YOU are comfortable - run, hide, crawl under a rock if you have too… it’s all good!

[Stephi]

I, personally, hate it when a guy checks me out. I feel very uncomfortable, even if he’s trying to be subtle, I don’t appreciate it. I’ve been hit on by a women once, (I’m a heterosexual woman), but it wasn’t as uncomfortable as when a man does it. You’d think it would be the other way around. I’m not too sure why. I’ve never really thought about it.

I’m not super spectacularly attractive, but I get it an awful lot, especially when I go out Friday or Saturday night with friends. And I usually go out just to be with friends, not to get looked at, or chatted up. I guess I’d rather not have to worry about someone checking me out.

[Jules4love]

oh yea BTW - Dreamer - you know me well enough!!! LOL LOL LOL - that’s me the ultimate beach bunny!

[dreamer]

*Originally posted by ratty *
**

I have a theory, though- all of us with low self-esteem and shyness secretly love and crave attention. We just want to be absolutely, 100% sure that it is sincere. And nothing will ever be sufficient to convince us of that. So we’re stuck. Wanting and needing to be reinforced, but unable to accept that reinforcement. Unable to accept the very thing which would make us happier about ourselves.

**

Very well said ratty. I agree that the hardest thing in accepting love from others is believing that it’s sincere. Those “voices” you talk about are constantly discussing my most inner feelings and they have no respect as to what I know to be truth. Every day is a struggle and it’s a shame. Why the heck do I care about what anyone thinks? Because I do, and yet I don’t at the same time.

So here’s what I suggest- if you cruise someone, and they won’t meet your eye, if you know it’s shyness or low self-esteem that’s preventing them from making contact, go over to them. Draw them out, make silly conversation. Like dealing with frightened animals, you must go slowly. Make no threatening moves. Don’t talk too loud. Do everything in your power to convince them that you mean them no harm.

I tried this just a few weeks ago. I was at the mall and I sat down to answer my cell phone. Sitting next to me was a woman who wasn’t physically attractive, very overweight, and looked incredibly sad. During the course of my phone conversation my heart grew sad for her and I was hoping to get a chance to strike up a conversation with her as soon as I hung up. Unfortunately she got up before that happened, but it is important for us to remember that even a simple “Hello, how are you doing today?”, could make someone’s day and make a memory they won’t soon forget.

[matt_mcl]

However, I don’t see any talk from heterosexuals about “cruising” on subways and being followed into the bathroom .

My dad met my mom when he “cruised” her on a city bus some thirty years ago. Of course, back in the day they called it “looking at a pretty girl,” but the idea was more or less the same, I gather.

[Esprix]

Originally posted by Space Vampire

I am not going to read the whole thread again as I need to get going here.

You might want to consider reading a thread before posting to it. It sure helps.

However, I don’t see any talk from heterosexuals about “cruising” on subways and being followed into the bathroom (though I suppose the last is to be expected.)

matt just gave us one. Do you suspect that heterosexuals don’t cruise each other? My, that’s an interesting facet of heterosexual life I never knew didn’t exist. I mean, I always assumed that’s how it happened - just like homosexuals. So how, exactly, do you heterosexuals mate? I seem to be unaware of your rituals…

I don’t know, I may’ve jumped to conclusions, but I’m not going to read the whole thread to find all the differences that may or may not be there, at least not right now.

I’ll translate for the uninitiated: “I’m going to make some sweeping generalizations based on reading one and a half posts in a pages-long thread and when called on it cry foul.” (Babelfish, eat your heart out!)

I do NOT like people staring at me, no matter what “vibe” they may be giving off. I think its presumptuous and rude that you should insist that everyone respond positively to this.

Please quote me where I “insist” someone react favorably to me smiling at them or retract the statement. Would I prefer that they do? Of course. Do I get frustrated when they don’t? Yes. But I certainly don’t go running up to them, shake them by the shoulders and say, “Smile back, dammit!”

I have noticed myself being stared at in maybe-positive ways by women once or twice, and it bugged me, once so much that I stopped what I was doing and left.

Fair enough, but I’m sure the women who were admiring you felt exactly the way I do in the OP. Perhaps you’re more attractive to women than you think?

But SF-SM staring (which is what we’re talking about as the comment I made only relates to myself, and I’m obviously not going to be ogled by straight men) is not as common or accepted as some posts seem to imply that it is among gay men.

I daresay it’s just as accepted and not accepted - it seems to depend on the person, not the sexual orientation.

… maybe you and your gay comrades should consider the impressions you make since most straight people don’t know much more about gay dating than what they’re told.

Did you hear that, my fellow gay Dopers? Yet again it is our responsibility, 100% of the time (no holidays off!), to be exemplary models of “gay sensibility” because the straights need to be educated. Chins up! Shine those shoes! And no more cruising!

Excuse me while I :rolleyes:

Thank you.

Esprix

[SisterCoyote]

JFTR, although being cruised by members of either gender makes me uncomfortable, it’s flattering too.

I just don’t know what to do with the attention (being a BBW doesn’t help any). Because I was told from the time I was in the fourth grade that I had to lose weight or no one would be attracted to me there’s a part of me that automatically assumes the person is staring because I’ve got food on my front, or a booger hanging from my nose, or something equally unpleasant.